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Old 04-05-2019, 03:46 AM
  #39901  
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Default More on upping Carb Size

Originally Posted by Glowgeek
It still has the stock carb Jim. Has anyone seen power gains from going to a larger carb?
Back in my auto road racing days selecting carb cfm was all about using the smallest carb and intake runner manifold which still allowed reaching the desired peak rpm. That was to keep the intake velocities up for a broader torque curve below peak rpm. The fa82 has a torque deficit at between 8500 and 9300 rpm according to the spectreflight dyno chart and I get the feeling that is why I'm only seeing 9300 rpm with a 14x6 prop while seeing 10300 rpm with a 13x7. Over all it appears the 82 hates 14" props in general, my new xoar 14x5 only turns at 9550 rpm. I would have thought it would be closer to the 13x7 number than that.

Perhaps an fa100 carb and intake would move the torque curve up in rpm range but of course at the expense of losing torque at lower rpm (slower spool up). I'd love to try it but don't have any 100's to borrow parts from.

Last edited by Glowgeek; 04-05-2019 at 04:06 AM.
Old 04-05-2019, 03:46 AM
  #39902  
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Real easy to do. No gain.
Once upon a time I moved the carb on my 150 up to the intake port, it accomplished nothing. I sent that rig to Dan.

Last edited by Hobbsy; 04-05-2019 at 03:47 AM. Reason: Spelling
Old 04-05-2019, 04:09 AM
  #39903  
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Originally Posted by Jesse Open
I missed your edit till just now.

Of course! I made a few and still have a couple. Takes all of about 1/2 hour In the mail tomorrow.

BTW, let me know if you will be needing a bit more SWAK® to install it...
Thanks Gary. I have plenty of swak, a little goes a very long way.
Old 04-05-2019, 04:18 AM
  #39904  
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Originally Posted by Glowgeek
Back in my auto road racing days selecting carb cfm was all about using the smallest carb and intake runner manifold which still allowed reaching the desired peak rpm. That was to keep the intake velocities up for a broader torque curve below peak rpm. The fa82 has a torque deficit at between 8500 and 9300 rpm according to the spectreflight dyno chart and I get the feeling that is why I'm only seeing 9300 rpm with a 14x6 prop while seeing 10300 rpm with a 13x7. Over all it appears the 82 hates 14" props in general, my new xoar 14x5 only turns at 9550 rpm. I would have thought it would be closer to the 13x7 number than that.

Perhaps an fa100 carb and intake would move the torque curve up in rpm range but of course at the expense of losing torque at lower rpm (slower spool up). I'd love to try it but don't have any 100's to borrow parts from.

I need to pull out my old Saito 82 with the 62 carb. Will get some comparison with the 82 carb. Like I said earlier, I do a LOT of my flying at part throttle, very close to the ground. Strong mid range, snappy response are far more important to me than another 100 or 200 fairly useless peak RPM.
BTW, not as driver but as crew chief, we raced a Austin Mini Cooper S in C Sedan SCCA road racing for several years. Held the local (Waterford Hills) lap record for that class with an engine I built in our old automotive machine shop, a 1275 MG/Austin. I certainly agree, road racing like RC sport flying for me, is not like drag racing.
Old 04-05-2019, 04:29 AM
  #39905  
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Originally Posted by Jesse Open
I need to pull out my old Saito 82 with the 62 carb. Will get some comparison with the 82 carb. Like I said earlier, I do a LOT of my flying at part throttle, very close to the ground. Strong mid range, snappy response are far more important to me than another 100 or 200 fairly useless peak RPM.
BTW, not as driver but as crew chief, we raced a Austin Mini Cooper S in C Sedan SCCA road racing for several years. Held the local (Waterford Hills) lap record for that class with an engine I built in our old automotive machine shop, a 1275 MG/Austin. I certainly agree, road racing like RC sport flying for me, is not like drag racing.
I raced SCCA Solo2 CP class, qualified for the nats 3 years running. Finished in the top 20 the last year with a CP '97 Camaro Convertable. Stroked and poked the 5.7ltr to 383 cubes for that season. I liked the challenge of racing timed memory courses but too many Type A personalities for me.
Old 04-05-2019, 04:48 AM
  #39906  
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Originally Posted by Glowgeek
I raced SCCA Solo2 CP class, qualified for the nats 3 years running. Finished in the top 20 the last year with a CP '97 Camaro Convertable. Stroked and poked the 5.7ltr to 383 cubes for that season. I liked the challenge of racing timed memory courses but too many Type A personalities for me.
Won't find that HERE
Old 04-05-2019, 04:54 AM
  #39907  
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Originally Posted by Jesse Open
Won't find that HERE
Naw lol. Hey, at least the type A's will talk to me here. At the Nats no one would. Maybe it's because my ride was 700lbs over minimum weight and I was kick'n most of their @#&es. Heehee.
Old 04-05-2019, 04:57 AM
  #39908  
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We're all calm, cool double B's here.

So Gary you place more importance on the best transition as opposed to the slowest idle as I do also

I was on here when this place was called RCO or RC Online.
Old 04-05-2019, 05:29 AM
  #39909  
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Originally Posted by Hobbsy

I was on here when this place was called RCO or RC Online.
And I hope you're around for a long time to come. The newbs would be lost without you RC dinosaurs!
Old 04-05-2019, 05:36 AM
  #39910  
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Got to the computer stuff very late, so I missed the early days here. Generally, I dislike computers. If not for comparing notes, parts, engines etc, I wouldn't bother.

Got to Saito and YS very early though. This July will be the 40th anniversary of my very first Saito. Back then 99% of the folks I was flying with thought four strokes were stupid and Saitos were chintzy "trinkets" that would soon go away. Of course, they kept coming and so did the new users.
Old 04-05-2019, 06:11 AM
  #39911  
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Originally Posted by Jesse Open
Got to the computer stuff very late, so I missed the early days here. Generally, I dislike computers. If not for comparing notes, parts, engines etc, I wouldn't bother.

Got to Saito and YS very early though. This July will be the 40th anniversary of my very first Saito. Back then 99% of the folks I was flying with thought four strokes were stupid and Saitos were chintzy "trinkets" that would soon go away. Of course, they kept coming and so did the new users.
I remember buying the first .60 FS OS Max brought out it in the mid 70s. The first run had machined shiny aluminum rockers and the second run had black cast rockers. The pushrods and cam followers were exposed and would disappear if you landed too hard. A lot of guys I knew were sending them to a German named Otto on the west coast to convert to spark ignition. They would blow smoke rings when idling on spark. Otto had a reputation for showing up at a fly in with a big cooler of beer and a bushel basket, when he left at the end of the day the cooler was empty and basket was full of empties. Otto wouldn't even have a buzz on. His workmanship was even more impressive.
Old 04-05-2019, 06:26 AM
  #39912  
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Originally Posted by FlyerInOKC
I remember buying the first .60 FS OS Max brought out it in the mid 70s. The first run had machined shiny aluminum rockers and the second run had black cast rockers. The pushrods and cam followers were exposed and would disappear if you landed too hard. A lot of guys I knew were sending them to a German named Otto on the west coast to convert to spark ignition. They would blow smoke rings when idling on spark. Otto had a reputation for showing up at a fly in with a big cooler of beer and a bushel basket, when he left at the end of the day the cooler was empty and basket was full of empties. Otto wouldn't even have a buzz on. His workmanship was even more impressive.
I think that was Otto Rhinehardt. I copied some of his breaker point setups back in the early 80s when playing with sparky ignition. Later on, I bought one of those early OS open rocker engines. Let it go just last year. Nice engine, much better quality than the early OR Saito!
Old 04-05-2019, 06:32 AM
  #39913  
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Originally Posted by Jesse Open
I think that was Otto Rhinehardt. I copied some of his breaker point setups back in the early 80s when playing with sparky ignition. Later on, I bought one of those early OS open rocker engines. Let it go just last year. Nice engine, much better quality than the early OR Saito!
I had a NIB open rocker (second run) I never ran but held on to for years when I left the hobby. I sold it to a collector back in 2004 when I returned to the hobby. It financed my LT-40 kit, ST .40, and field box with accessories. I don't know which one of us was happiest with the deal.

Gary do make the 90 degree adapters for the muffler? The one I have on first .80 is a Saito replacement made for an inline twin.
Old 04-05-2019, 07:49 AM
  #39914  
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Hobbsy, question on the FG-30 carb. Did you touch any of it before the first run up? What size prop would you use for break in? The manual says the smallest, and usually I see that other recommend use what you fly. I am not sure what I will be using to fly the B-25 with yet. I got a pair of 18x6 Falcons for it in the mean time. The smallest listed prop is 16 x 8-10. It also states full synthetic, what have you used? I have Amsoil that I use in my DLS and DA engines and ran in my FG-11, but that was post break in, and that one stated ashless oil.

BTW I may have found a PSP mount, waiting on a reply if it is big enough for the FG-30 and NGH 38CC. They have the backing plate, so I now have one enroute. WOOT! Got me the PSP test stand with 3 1/2" tank mount and large engine radial adapter.

Last edited by acdii; 04-05-2019 at 08:44 AM.
Old 04-05-2019, 09:43 AM
  #39915  
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Originally Posted by Glowgeek
It still has the stock carb Jim. Has anyone seen power gains from going to a larger carb?
only that 56 (or was it a 65) with the 82 Carb, edited> as I remember the gain was right around 1300 Rs, wow

as for you comment about that Xoar prop, the Xoars are real pullers, the Xoar 17X6 pulled 200 RPM less than the APC 17X8 on the Magnum 180Fr I had, and the Xoar 17X8 pulled 600 Rs less than the APC 17X8 did, that's big difference there

Jim

Last edited by the Wasp; 04-05-2019 at 09:59 AM.
Old 04-05-2019, 10:54 AM
  #39916  
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Originally Posted by the Wasp
only that 56 (or was it a 65) with the 82 Carb, edited> as I remember the gain was right around 1300 Rs, wow

as for you comment about that Xoar prop, the Xoars are real pullers, the Xoar 17X6 pulled 200 RPM less than the APC 17X8 on the Magnum 180Fr I had, and the Xoar 17X8 pulled 600 Rs less than the APC 17X8 did, that's big difference there

Jim
Ok, I knew xoar props pulled engines down more than equivalent sized apc props but that much? Wow
Old 04-05-2019, 12:02 PM
  #39917  
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Originally Posted by acdii
Hobbsy, question on the FG-30 carb. Did you touch any of it before the first run up? What size prop would you use for break in? The manual says the smallest, and usually I see that other recommend use what you fly. I am not sure what I will be using to fly the B-25 with yet. I got a pair of 18x6 Falcons for it in the mean time. The smallest listed prop is 16 x 8-10. It also states full synthetic, what have you used? I have Amsoil that I use in my DLS and DA engines and ran in my FG-11, but that was post break in, and that one stated ashless oil.

BTW I may have found a PSP mount, waiting on a reply if it is big enough for the FG-30 and NGH 38CC. They have the backing plate, so I now have one enroute. WOOT! Got me the PSP test stand with 3 1/2" tank mount and large engine radial adapter.
This is what I would go by: Benchmark APC 16 x 8 @ 9300 rpm, those 18 x 6's should be fine. About the same load as 16 x 8. Those multi pitch props turn really hard, I only have an FG 11, I use full synthetic, I run a 13 x 7 Xoar on it since it's the benchmark prop.

PS, the FG's won't start if either needle is very far off the mark.
Old 04-05-2019, 12:10 PM
  #39918  
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Hmm, thought you ran an FG-30, or was that someone else. It took me a bit to figure out where the HSN is. RTFM and found that it uses a weird choke setup too.
Old 04-05-2019, 12:18 PM
  #39919  
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Is this your Falcon prop? Thanks
Old 04-05-2019, 12:35 PM
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no, I got the plain jane wood one. $15 each
Old 04-05-2019, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyerInOKC

Gary do make the 90 degree adapters for the muffler? The one I have on first .80 is a Saito replacement made for an inline twin.
Yes, 22.5°, 45°, 90° and just about any angle needed. I need to make a batch of 12mm x 1.0 90° Elbows. I use 7075 aluminum, very tough stuff !

Same material in the aluminum engine stand. Never gets fuel soaked
Old 04-05-2019, 04:34 PM
  #39922  
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Originally Posted by Jesse Open
I use 7075 aluminum, very tough stuff!
That muffler you're sending out to me, what alloy is made made from? Reason I ask is that it seems to polish nicely.
Old 04-05-2019, 07:50 PM
  #39923  
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Originally Posted by Jesse Open
Yes, 22.5°, 45°, 90° and just about any angle needed. I need to make a batch of 12mm x 1.0 90° Elbows. I use 7075 aluminum, very tough stuff !

Same material in the aluminum engine stand. Never gets fuel soaked
Great PM me a price and will do some business!
Old 04-06-2019, 01:19 AM
  #39924  
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Dave if you have friends over your way doing up old harleys this is not to be missed

Originally Posted by acdii
Hmm, thought you ran an FG-30, or was that someone else. It took me a bit to figure out where the HSN is. RTFM and found that it uses a weird choke setup too.
Bruce if you stick with the apc bench mark prop for run in on the fg30 you will at least be able to satisfy yourself as to when the engine is fully run in and pulling the revs saito says it will eg; i ran my fg57 in with an apc 22x10.An hour and a half of running and it was pulling what saito said it would,6500.
Old 04-06-2019, 01:28 AM
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Anzac day coming up shortly here in aussie,it's a big deal for aussies and kiwi's.This pic left hand side of harley fuel tank i painted for the parade.

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