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Old 05-28-2019, 01:38 AM
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cdrc don't know if anyone has mentioned it yet but you can't just play with the lsn on it's own and expect a good tune.You must start a engine in the plane flying tune with the lsn flush with the bottom bevel on the throttle arm and get max rpm FIRST with the hsn otherwise you will chase your tail all day and still be grounded.Bench running is not a good indicator of the tune you need when the engine is in situ.

ps jim, painting harleys all this week

Last edited by Rudolph Hart; 05-28-2019 at 01:40 AM.
Old 05-28-2019, 01:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Rudolph Hart

ps jim, painting harleys all this week




Must be using OIL paints.
Old 05-28-2019, 04:20 AM
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Originally Posted by cdrc1
Was still having issues with transition; would stall if you went straight to full. Took it back out of the plane and put it on the stand with the pump; had to turnout the low speed needle about 1 1/2 turns to fix the transition which is now good. Also went to a 14 x 8. Running good. Will see once it is back into the plane upside down.
Nothing unusual about an upright engine needing the lsn turned out more vs. an inverted engine. This is especially true when not using a velocity stack. When you mount the engine back into your airframe inverted expect to have to turn the lsn back in, sometimes as much as 2 full turns when not using a velocity stack.

When getting a new setup ready for flight I leave the cowl off for the first few flights to have easier access to potential problems and the lsn. Once the cowl gets installed I check for excessive engine heat and correct by adding cutouts and/or baffles. BTW, you need access to the lsn with the cowl installed because the engine may run a little hotter and require slightly less fuel at idle.

With the cowl off get the engine up to temp and set the hsn for 400 rpm rich from peak. Set the lsn where the engine will idle for at least 15 sec without dying. Give the fuel line a quick pinch at idle and listen for rpm change. If the rpm rises a lot after the pinch you're too rich, turn in the lsn. If the engine dies you're too lean, turn out the lsn. Optimally the engine should only rise in rpm very slightly after a quick pinch at idle. Don't forget, each time you perform an adjustment to lsn go back to wide open throttle (wot) and readjust the hsn for 400 rpm rich of peak. Adjusted this way you should be running just slightly rich at idle. This is course tuned.

EDIT: When course tuning the lsn you can use your glow ignitor instead of the pinch test to get the lsn close to optimum. Put the ignitor on when idling, if the rpm rises a lot you're too rich, turn in the lsn. If the rpm drops you're too lean, screw out the lsn. Even though this works for course tuning the lsn it is very easy to get the lsn adjusted too lean, backfire and start spitting props. This is why I prefer the pinch test for course tuning.

After you have course tuned the lsn with the pinch test or glow ignitor test it's time to get the lsn perfect. Again, make sure the engine is up to full operating temp and the hsn is set to 400 rpm rich of peak. Lsn adjustments at this point will be done in very small increments, no more than 1/16 turn at a time. Allow the engine to idle for at least 15 seconds and go to wot. If it hesitates, blows lots of smoke and then clears up on its way to max rpm you're still a little rich. Keep turning the lsn in 1/16 at a time until transition to wot after a 15 sec idle is smooth. If it coughs and dies or spits the prop you're lsn is too lean. Turn out the lsn 1/8 turn and try leaning again. You will eventually get to a point where the engine will idle for extended periods of time and just snap up to wot with no hesitation.

Go fly it a few times before reinstalling the cowl and retune as needed.

Last edited by Glowgeek; 05-28-2019 at 04:52 AM.
Old 05-28-2019, 04:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Captcrunch44
Yeah
i just got a 100, no wait must have been last week a month ago. It is stuck up all over. This one should make a good one to try some paint on. If I ever get to it.


Saito 180 ready to run, the 16 x 8 three blade should turn 8,000 or better.
Old 05-28-2019, 04:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Glowgeek
Nothing unusual about an upright engine needing the lsn turned out more vs. an inverted engine. This is especially true when not using a velocity stack. When you mount the engine back into your airframe inverted expect to have to turn the lsn back in, sometimes as much as 2 full turns when not using a velocity stack.

When getting a new setup ready for flight I leave the cowl off for the first few flights to have easier access to potential problems and the lsn. Once the cowl gets installed I check for excessive engine heat and correct by adding cutouts and/or baffles. BTW, you need access to the lsn with the cowl installed because the engine may run a little hotter and require slightly less fuel at idle.

With the cowl off get the engine up to temp and set the hsn for 400 rpm rich from peak. Set the lsn where the engine will idle for at least 15 sec without dying. Give the fuel line a quick pinch at idle and listen for rpm change. If the rpm rises a lot after the pinch you're too rich, turn in the lsn. If the engine dies you're too lean, turn out the lsn. Optimally the engine should only rise in rpm very slightly after a quick pinch at idle. Don't forget, each time you perform an adjustment to lsn go back to wide open throttle (wot) and readjust the hsn for 400 rpm rich of peak. Adjusted this way you should be running just slightly rich at idle. This is course tuned.

After you have course tuned the lsn with the pinch test it's time to get the lsn perfect. Again, make sure the engine is up to full operating temp and the hsn is set to 400 rpm rich of peak. Lsn adjustments at this point will be done in very small increments, no more than 1/16 turn at a time. Allow the engine to idle for at least 15 seconds and go to wot. If it hesitates, blows lots of smoke and then clears up on its way to max rpm you're still a little rich. Keep turning the lsn in 1/16 at a time until transition to wot after a 15 sec idle is smooth. If it coughs and dies or spits the prop you're lsn is too lean. Turn out the lsn 1/8 turn and try leaning again. You will eventually get to a point where the engine will idle for extended periods of time and just snap up to wot with no hesitation.

Go fly it a few times before reinstalling the cowl and retune as needed.

I have much better luck setting the LS needle with the HS needle at absolute peak, then when you enrich the HS needle 150 rpm for flying, (with the tank only half full) nothing changes. 400 rpm rich is mighty close to a bogging and sagging setting. In my humble opinion.
Old 05-28-2019, 04:47 AM
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I think the 180 is big enough to cool the shop with the 3 blade prop! That is one orange bike you got there. Easy to find after the accident.
Old 05-28-2019, 04:53 AM
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Originally Posted by FlyerInOKC
I think the 180 is big enough to cool the shop with the 3 blade prop! That is one orange bike you got there. Easy to find after the accident.
Yep, anything loose is going to end up in a corner someplace, I am refurbishing the 80XR for my brothers grand kids. There won't be any accident.
Old 05-28-2019, 05:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Hobbsy
I have much better luck setting the LS needle with the HS needle at absolute peak, then when you enrich the HS needle 150 rpm for flying, (with the tank only half full) nothing changes. 400 rpm rich is mighty close to a bogging and sagging setting. In my humble opinion.
Define absolute peak. For me absolute peak is the max rpm the engine will attain but NOT sustain. This is the rpm I richen 400 from. For me peak rpm is the maximum sustainable rpm the engine will produce, usually around 200 rpm down from absolute peak.

In my experience I have seen no affect on idle or midrange a/f mix when richening 400 rpm from absoltue peak rpm or richening 200 rpm from sustainable peak rpm.
Old 05-28-2019, 05:12 AM
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The peak is the peak, 200 rpm lower is not the peak, there is a peak where the rpm wanders up and down a few rpm, that is one click too lean. The 400 rpm rich setting may not effect the idle but it sure makes for mushy flying and boggy acceleration.
Old 05-28-2019, 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Hobbsy
The peak is the peak, 200 rpm lower is not the peak, there is a peak where the rpm wanders up and down a few rpm, that is one click too lean. The 400 rpm rich setting may not effect the idle but it sure makes for mushy flying and boggy acceleration.
Semantics, we're saying the same thing. Richened 150-200 rpm from a sustainable peak rpm. The engines will rev a couple of hundred rpms higher than that though (to absolute peak), but only for 5 seconds or so then the engine gets too hot and begins dropping rpm due to efficiency losses. I'm sure my engines are not bogging when adjusted 400 rpm down from that absolute peak number. Clear as mud?

Edit: This discussion addresses why the rpm listed by folks here on the rcu "tachometer readings" thread as well as everywhere else on the net can be misleading. Dave, I know when you test for peak rpms for an engine/prop combo you list the sustainable peak rpm, many others list absolute peak but don't say so. Admittedly, I sometimes list my findings in absolute peak rpm. Perhaps I should list sustainable peak as you do, it occurs to me that it may be a more useful number.

Last edited by Glowgeek; 05-28-2019 at 10:36 AM.
Old 05-28-2019, 04:28 PM
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Yes sir, we're simply exchanging opinions based on our respective experiences. Above is an example of where the peak was before the little Saito 30 settled down, your point is well made and well taken by me.

Last edited by Hobbsy; 05-29-2019 at 02:58 AM.
Old 05-28-2019, 04:57 PM
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I tune mine by ear. Problem is, I can only do that twice.
Old 05-28-2019, 05:31 PM
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Open link ink and click on files ending "mov"
one is the ultra quiet canister, one is the home brew 12mm long tail replacement tailpiece with 8x 4mm holes rather than the stock 6x 3.0mm internal holes. The last is a straight Zoomie header pipe.
The long tail is good for 300 rpm over the stock Saito tail.
The engine is an "A" series 125 that is due for a new set of bearings and scheduled to go in the Dragon Lady.
Fuel is home brew 14% nitro/ 12% Klotz, 2% castor.
Prop is a 15-8 APC

Last edited by Jesse Open; 05-28-2019 at 06:11 PM.
Old 05-28-2019, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Hobbsy


Saito 180 ready to run, the 16 x 8 three blade should turn 8,000 or better.
awesome
finely made it to Texas with the 82 we are supposed to get good weather Thursday so we can compare the 82 to the 72 it should be great
Old 05-28-2019, 11:36 PM
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Originally Posted by acdii
I tune mine by ear. Problem is, I can only do that twice.
Very funny bruce please use a tacho cdrc.

Lonnie i understand what you are saying re in situ tuning of the engine.Dave makes a good point about tuning it with half a tank of fuel (a good compromise for overall flying tune over a ten minute period,start out a little bit rich on a full tank and slightly lean near tank empty, for cdrc's benefit) even if you do have to stop the engine and re fuel back to half a tank every two minutes you are looking for max rpm at full throttle.You can avoid that by using a cline regulator but cdrc is using a perry pump.I have no experience with perry pumps but have watched other perry pump people stay on the ground all day trying to get it right.

Nothing wrong with oil paints gary, but that little orange/red xr80 mini bike in the background shots is to subtle...get ready for more.Got anything with a distant guzzi in the background?
Old 05-29-2019, 02:03 AM
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New links to the home brew mufflers:

1: 3B55542A-D89A-4F03-BF77-A6F2A8D99EBF.mp429-May-2019

2: 01:2455.5MA5EFEC94-C826-4F51-9EBF-32B5C69FFDDC.mp429-May-2019

3: 01:2692.8MAA8EC8CF-4D09-4DA8-B08C-DD1A7149EEC8.mp429-May-2019







My son had an XR-80 that he restored when he was 12. He traded it for a YZ-80 Yamaha with a broken crankshaft (that "dad" got to repair. He did a resto on that one too. A few years later he was riding a very fast YZ-250 Yammy. None of that mini bike junk around here any more.
Check out the muffler sounds in the above links. They are described in my earlier post.

Last edited by Jesse Open; 05-29-2019 at 11:58 AM. Reason: links
Old 05-29-2019, 03:39 AM
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Wow Gary, that cannister muffler is quiet, you can hear the old bearings whirring. I like how the Saito Can with larger tail piece sounds, snorty.

Last edited by Glowgeek; 05-29-2019 at 03:42 AM.
Old 05-29-2019, 03:46 AM
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The quiet canister runs identical RPM to the stock Saito cast muffler. The big tail makes a pretty good gain.
Old 05-29-2019, 04:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Jesse Open

New links to the home brew mufflers:

1,
https://ia801508.us.archive.org/29/i...1A7149EEC8.mp4


2.
https://ia801508.us.archive.org/29/items/AA8EC8CF4D094DA8B08CDD1A7149EEC8/3B55542A-D89A-4F03-BF77-A6F2A8D99EBF.mp4


3.
https://ia601508.us.archive.org/29/items/AA8EC8CF4D094DA8B08CDD1A7149EEC8/A5EFEC94-C826-4F51-9EBF-32B5C69FFDDC.mp4


My son had an XR-80 that he restored when he was 12. He traded it for a YZ-80 Yamaha with a broken crankshaft (that "dad" got to repair. He did a resto on that one too. A few years later he was riding a very fast YZ-250 Yammy. None of that mini bike junk around here any more.
Check out the muffler sounds in the above links. They are described in my earlier post.
Weird, the first one was audio and visual, the second and third were audio only.
Old 05-29-2019, 04:47 AM
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Yes, that way on some but they are all video on my iPhone. Go figger. Must need different software. It is my first video post with a free site and I must be doing something wrong. May have to go on YouTube with the Super stars of RC look at me

Probably better to take them down than have to try and explain.

Last edited by Jesse Open; 05-29-2019 at 04:50 AM.
Old 05-29-2019, 04:52 AM
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Based on what I hear the mufflers do sound great. How about posting a picture to go with the two links?
Old 05-29-2019, 05:38 AM
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Using Gary's original link the .mov files didn't play smooth but the .mp4 files play perfect on my tablet. No downloading required either!
Old 05-29-2019, 05:42 AM
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Still not working for me.
Old 05-29-2019, 06:06 AM
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Originally Posted by FlyerInOKC
Still not working for me.
The new .mp4 links don't work right for me either. Looks like Gary took down the original link that allowed access to individual files, that's the one I used to play the .mp4 files from.
Old 05-29-2019, 06:09 AM
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That original link had a link to my iCloud account so I had to pull it .
I will see if I can clean it up at lunch time

try this:

3B55542A-D89A-4F03-BF77-A6F2A8D99EBF.mp429-May-2019

01:2455.5MA5EFEC94-C826-4F51-9EBF-32B5C69FFDDC.mp429-May-2019

01:2692.8MAA8EC8CF-4D09-4DA8-B08C-DD1A7149EEC8.mp429-May-2019




Seems to be working










Last edited by Jesse Open; 05-29-2019 at 11:59 AM.

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