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Welcome to Club SAITO !

Old 08-17-2006, 09:18 AM
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Thanks, glad to hear he is well...
Old 08-17-2006, 12:04 PM
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Bill is on RCU right now. I think he may just be taking a vacation from Club Saito. Burnout might be indicated.
Old 08-17-2006, 01:05 PM
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Hobbsy,
Thankyou for the compliments on my packing, I ship everything like that. I hope the little engine lives a good life. check your PM's.
Old 08-17-2006, 01:22 PM
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I broke in the Saito .40a using my usual method, I used PowerMaster 15% fuel with 18% 80/20 blend. Graupner 10.5x6.
10 minutes @ 4,000,
15 minutes @ 5,500,
15 minutes @ 7,000,
15 minutes @ 8,500,
By that time the 15 oz tank had 3/8 inch fuel left in it, I topped the tank and then got these numbers. This thing is nearly a full 1,000 rpm stronger than the .30 with the same prop and fuel. I included a pic of the amount of oil in the crankcase after running and a pic. of some of the black grease still on the backplate. It's a winner. PS, I took that ldle reading after a full minute timed with my trusty John Deere pocket watch,

MM did you notice the small dark gray washers on the exhaust jam nuts, note clean muffler after one hour plus running, gotta be a record.
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Old 08-17-2006, 02:43 PM
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Hobbsy,
I also seen the small fiber washers on the head end, and where the muffler bolts to the elbow. I am glad you are happy. Damm, maybe I should have kept it. I know were there is another new one. The hobby shops around could not move the little .40a's. This one sat on the shelf for a few years untill they went out of business. How much bigger is it than the .30. When I seen it sitting there for $89.00 I could not help myself from falling in love with it. I actually had to gaurd it with two hands as people were rummaging through the store, there had to be 100 people in there. They had just switched from 25% to 50% about 10 minutes before we got there. Everyone was going after the Car stuff, and we had first picks at the Saito's. My buddy bought the .82a.
Old 08-17-2006, 11:11 PM
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Actually flew my Saito .91 today. It had 48oz. of fuel through it on a bench, but I'd never tached it then
Hi RVM,

What kind of idle RPM do you have? I am breaking in a 100 and the idle does not want to go below the high 3K's.

Thanks
Al
Old 08-17-2006, 11:18 PM
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After you run a couple tanks through it, try to get the low speed needle valve set.
Old 08-18-2006, 02:04 AM
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Dang. All the way back to page 158 to catch up this time.

Pitts mufflers, Iron Bay and Cline regulators, and Perry pumps.

Pitts mufflers are classically low back pressure, two stroke engines have as many problems with them as four strokes do. With a four stroke the cure is easier than on a two stroke since the four stroke doesn’t need the back pressure for a good idle. But the pressure, as noted, isn’t enough for the regulator system. A Perry pump will work around the problem allowing you to leave the exhaust stacks open, but if using either the Iron Bay or Cline units it is almost always necessary to plug one of the exhaust stacks. It’s a fact of life with Pitts mufflers, get used to it.

riotgear:

Is there a difference between full tank and low fuel level to get your engine run problem? If yes I’d think you are indeed losing fuel feed. Best suggestion is using a bladder tank, check with Chief Aircraft and ask about the Tetra brand tanks. Should solve your problem.

Ted and Artisan:

ArmorAll has a high silicone content, and while it’s effective in reducing foaming it will also destroy your glow plug – it coats the filament and prevents the catalytic reaction.

If the problem is foaming you need to check the foam rubber on your tank – it should not be packed in tightly. The tank should have some free movement. If it’s tight it might as well be mounted solidly, you have no isolation from the vibration. An alternate is what I mentioned before – a Tetra or other bladder tank. An alternate to this is a small header tank, one or two ounces is big enough. The bladder tank is the better and less complicated way to go.

More on the header tank – they are common on helis as you said, and their use is to eliminate bubbles in the fuel feed. Disadvantage is they can only trap so much air before they also start feeding air. Fuelling is a little more complicated in that you have to bleed the air from the header, but proper hose and vent lines can make it almost as simple as a single conventional tank.

Alll:

The upgrade kits are available for all the older mid block engines, part number for all is SAIxx144. Insert engine size in place of the double x in the number. In other words, the SAI80144 for the FA-80, SAI72144 for the fa-72, and so forth. The difference is the taper on the inner end of the spray bar where the LS sleeve fits over it, to change the mid range. For the earlier carbs with a LS needle the inner taper is also modified for the same result.

Airboss:

Release temperature for the bearings in the Saito case is about 200F, I usually say 250-275F for the heat to give a little working time. If you’re sure you have the right front bearing check the bore in the case, see if you have turned a small ridge in it by having cocked the bearing on an earlier attempt. Additionally, if you have a micrometer check the old and new outside diameters. Unlikely, but maybe a production error.

RGN01:

Look at your fuel line while you’re getting the varying RPM at full throttle. Could easily be some foaming, but it could also be, as Barry (BLW) said, just too lean.

TC:

That FA-125 is an interesting thing, first the whine, then the whine and the high speed both go away at the same time. Very interested in what is found.

Scratch:

You could well have moved the crank back into the case if the prop came loose. With the prop tight it could still have moved a small amount. If it all feels good now run it and see what happens. Listen closely for bearing noise, you could have put flats on the balls and dings in the races.

Ron McG:

When you go to a lower nitro percentage having to lean the mix is normal. And when you go back to 20/20 you’ll have to go rich again.

Doug:

I would expect the new carb for your FA-80 to have the latest upgrade in it already. Sad to say, there’s no way I’ve found to eyeball the old and new parts. Run it, if there’s a problem call Horizon and fuss. They are good people, they’ll take care of you.

Going to stop and post, quite long enough for one post already. Continued in the next one.

Bill.
Old 08-18-2006, 02:14 AM
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Professor Bill Robison

Good to have you back!!

Was getting a bit concerned. I'll certainly keep you posted on the 125 findings. You are right, it is intriguing.

As soon as we know, rest assured, all of Club Saito will know. [>:]

Looks like crap weather here tomorrow (club day) so I'll have to make sure my plane is watertight!! and my IFR rating is current.

Have a good weekend all.

Now where did I leave my flippers and goggles?

TC
Old 08-18-2006, 06:40 AM
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Bill, good to see you back, the .40a that I broke in the other day has one other feature I've not seen on a Saito before. It has a rubber sleeve with a phlange on it to seal the intake pipe. It's strange to see these differences show up on an engine causing one to think they may show up on other engines but they never do.
Old 08-18-2006, 08:30 AM
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Hobbsy,
I too noticed that it did use an o-ring on the intake to head seal, but I don't think the differences we found will ever make it to production since that particular .40a was built around 2002 according to the manual. I know for a fact that it sat on the shelf over three years.
Old 08-18-2006, 08:45 AM
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Bill,
I have never had a problem with muffler pressure when running pitts mufflers with two and four strokes. I run Clines with four strokes all the time, mostly with straight pipes. I drill/tap and install a pressure fitting about a 1/4" from the jam nut on the header pipe, and that works awesome. If you talk to Jim Cline, he will tell you to get your pressure from there. Also, A cline will work awesome with a two-stroke and pitts muffler, you are suppose to use crankcase pressure to start with anyway on a two stroke.
Old 08-18-2006, 09:07 AM
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Bill,

I just acquired a Saito 80 and I have read both good and bad about this engine. Apparently this was a high compression engine at first production. Then Saito modified it due to running issues. Question, how do I tell which version I have and if I have the high compression version how do I modify it to lower the compression. Please correct me if I have been mislead.

Thanks
Old 08-18-2006, 09:43 AM
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

The high compression one will have an "A" stamped on top of the right mounting lug.

On a golden knight it is hard to see. It will be in the recessed area between the mounting holes.

If yours is on down the production sequence like being a "D" or something, then, you can be assured that it is not high compression.

My 80 is fairly old, I've had it 7 years and it wasn't new then, it has a "O" stamped on it. It is not high compression.

Enjoy,

Jim
Old 08-18-2006, 09:44 AM
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Have a FA 65, and need the initial high speed carb setting, I bought it used and do not have a manual-THANKS George
Old 08-18-2006, 09:48 AM
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About 3 1/2 turns should do it.

click on the link for your manual...

http://www.horizonhobby.com/ProdInfo...oke_Manual.pdf
Old 08-18-2006, 10:11 AM
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Thanks for the info.
George
Old 08-18-2006, 10:48 AM
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Jim,

Thanks, it is the high compression 80. What can I do to modify it and lower this?
Old 08-18-2006, 11:36 AM
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The engine actually performs well the way it is.

Just use no more than 10% nitro, keep it on the rich side and keep the props no bigger than 14-6 or 13-7

If you are compelled to lower the ratio...

Try to determine the thickness of the original gasket if it had one so you know where you are at. Remove the original gasket and put a new one not more than twice the original thickness in its place and re-adjust the valves. You can get gasket material at better auto stores and in the USA like the NAPA store.

Hobbsy has one and he uses it like it is.
Old 08-18-2006, 12:24 PM
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Like MOTORMAN37, I also get great pressure from my Pitts muffler. It is a Slimline Pitts sidemount version on a Saito 125 with a Cline regulator. I have a check valve between the muffler and fuel tank and my hoses are very short, so maybe these are factors. When I'm done flying and take the fuel dot off of my exhaust line to refuel, there is so much pressure that it's like I've opened a can of pop. Only once did I forget to take the exhaust dot off first, because when I opened the fuel line under pressure, fuel sprayed all over my new shoes.



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Old 08-18-2006, 01:09 PM
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

KH, I also have one of the early high compression .80s, I ran it for the first time on 15% nitro the other day and it was fine, it turned a 14x6 APC at 9,500 plus a few. I also have a 1.50 with the high compression, I haven't run it on 15% since 1991.
Old 08-18-2006, 01:54 PM
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Right now I'm running 20% nitro, 15% oil (3% of which is castor) fuel with an APC 14x7 on my .91 and am getting a peak of about 9450RPMs and I have a smooth, reliable idle at around 1900-2100 RPMs.


ORIGINAL: P47 Jug - Al

Actually flew my Saito .91 today. It had 48oz. of fuel through it on a bench, but I'd never tached it then
Hi RVM,

What kind of idle RPM do you have? I am breaking in a 100 and the idle does not want to go below the high 3K's.

Thanks
Al
Old 08-18-2006, 11:37 PM
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Just finished running the first 3 tanks of fuel through my newly rebuilt Saito .91 this evening. What a feeling of satisfaction it was to hear that thing run so well (even though it was slobbery rich and under 4000 rpm's).

This engine was given to me after having gone through a fire. The prop was melted and drooping down and the engine was black as coal. After opening the back plate I found everything packed full of rust. A complete rebuild would be the only way to revive it. $140.00 in parts and a few evenings of work and it looks like new inside and out. Tomorrow I'll run a few more tanks of fuel through it and get it up higher in rpm's and temperature.

I was worried about investing money without knowing the outcome but I'm sure glad I went for it. I can't be happier to be a new member of Club SAITO !
Old 08-19-2006, 12:22 AM
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Semi_Conscious

Good job for your pride of accomplishment

Enjoy,

Jim
Old 08-19-2006, 09:10 PM
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

semi conscious- thanks for letting us know how the rebuild went. Sure would be nice to read what your RPM numbers are when you start peaking it.

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