Notices
Glow Engines Discuss RC glow engines

Welcome to Club SAITO !

Old 08-28-2006, 05:22 AM
  #4401  
Moderator
My Feedback: (58)
 
rajul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Missouri City, TX
Posts: 8,248
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Bill would probably recommend about 4% castor oil. I put in 2 ounces of Klotz castor in every gallon of coolpower to get about 4% castor.
Old 08-28-2006, 06:27 AM
  #4402  
Senior Member
 
Jonathan.Lam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: london, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 304
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

WR(william robison)

"Jonathan- the- Chinky- Boy:
Send me your email address, I’ll send a copy of Saito Notes, all tuning is covered, and that will save all of us having to type it again.
I’ve put you in as member number 264 in Club Saito. Welcome."




thanks for the help
Old 08-28-2006, 06:57 AM
  #4403  
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Red Bluff, CA
Posts: 609
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Dutch,
I have a Saito 91 in a 5.5lb Mojo 60 . With a 15x4w I get about 10 lbs thrust at 10,000 rpm on 20% nitro. I was using 15% but the 20% was at the field for my YS so why not. Saitos run fine on 15% and on 30%. I fly at 1/4 throttle much of the tme with bursts at 3/4 throttle. I don't hit full throttle at all on a typical flight. 30 % will make a .91 run like a 1.00. If you need the extra power you pay for the hot fuel. An 8 oz tank lasts me about 15 min of 3d flying. I love my Saito.
Old 08-28-2006, 07:20 AM
  #4404  
My Feedback: (102)
 
Hobbsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Colonial Beach, VA
Posts: 20,370
Likes: 0
Received 25 Likes on 25 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

JP, as Mike said its a TNC by Fromeco, I only had GloBees before, w8ye has one of the early TNCs. The only glitch it has is that quite often the Hi number reads double, the Hi number is fixed once it reads but the Low number goes up and down with the engine rpm. I just release the button for a split second and the Hi number clears and reads nearly the same as the Lo number. In case you wonder why I made that post, a bunch of us Diesel heads are trying to get a fourstroke to run on Diesel. It just happened that my first successful run on Diesel was with a Saito. To its credit the engine is very smooth and very quiet on the Diesel fuel, the exhaust note is so soft as to be barely audible below half throttle.
Old 08-28-2006, 09:34 AM
  #4405  
My Feedback: (24)
 
Kmot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Northridge, CA
Posts: 10,958
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Hobbsy: what did you do to increase the c/r enough to turn it into a diesel fuel burner? I am interested to learn of any damage the engine suffers from the compression ignition.

As for tachometers, I have a Royal analog and a GloBee digital. I don't see much difference between the various versions accuracy.
Old 08-28-2006, 10:52 AM
  #4406  
Senior Member
My Feedback: (14)
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Ringgold, GA
Posts: 11,488
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

If it is an old .80, he didn't have to increase the compression ratio at all. That is why some folks had trouble tuning the old high compression .80. It was designed to burn no nitro fuel and came with outstanding compression. Some Enya four-strokes are the same way. All they need is a trimmer plug in place of the glow plug and they are ready to go. Fuel with high ether content is necessary, such as DDD fuel.
Old 08-28-2006, 03:42 PM
  #4407  
Senior Member
My Feedback: (29)
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: clermont, GA
Posts: 344
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Hi all , I would like to try and mix my own glow fuel for my saitos. can anyone offer some good mixes? Also I live in Atlanta GA and where would be the best place to purchase the materials?
Thanks
Old 08-28-2006, 06:00 PM
  #4408  
My Feedback: (102)
 
Hobbsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Colonial Beach, VA
Posts: 20,370
Likes: 0
Received 25 Likes on 25 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

I didn't do anything to the .72, it just happens to be just right, I can't use Diesel in my old .80, I've tried two or three times and it has too high compression. The old high compression .80 begins to sound like a black and gold grenade at about half throttle.
Old 08-28-2006, 07:20 PM
  #4409  
blw
My Feedback: (3)
 
blw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Opelika, AL
Posts: 9,447
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Hobbsy- how do you like that 3 bladed Graupner? I have ideas about putting my .72 in a Sig Kavalier that doesn't have nose wheel clearance for a 13" prop. Otherwise, it should fit fine.

WMB- It depends if a .72 would be enough for the Somethin Extra. We seem to have a large SE building crowd at my club. Some build heavy with the flying wires on the tail section and some build lighter without the wires and other weight saving mods. Depends on what you want to do with it. I *think* you would have enough hover power on a fairly well build model. I know that it would fly it around with plenty of top speed or vertical, depending maybe on how you prop it...or it may do both without worrying about props. I would say go for it unless you want to do 3D, and then I would suggest that you build yours very light. You can save a lot of weight by using Dubro Featherlite wheels and a mini servo for throttle. Maybe good selection of servos for the rest too.

I was using my .72 on a larger, heavier pattern plane with lots of frontal area drag due to airfoils on the fin and stab. I can't really hover, but it would keep the plane stationary. It didn't have power to pull out though. The SE would be much lighter with less drag.
Old 08-28-2006, 07:29 PM
  #4410  
blw
My Feedback: (3)
 
blw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Opelika, AL
Posts: 9,447
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Hobbsy- I have the Fromeco tach. W8YE and I tached an engine with ours and they were just about the same readings, give or take 10 RPM or so from what I remember. I've seen Jim tach my plane from about 6 feet away. I've done it too but usually am around 3 feet myself.
Old 08-28-2006, 09:48 PM
  #4411  
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Mary Esther, Florida, FL
Posts: 20,205
Likes: 0
Received 15 Likes on 14 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Dave:

I see your engine running on diesel, but why bother? You’re only getting 7600 rpm, if you want diesel why spend Saito money? I can understand if it’s just experimentation though.

I do see the nice Saito fuel filter attached to your engine stand. Highly recommended to everybody.

IC:

The part numbering wouldn’t be anywhere nearly so bad if Horizon would document the changes, but that would take time and effort, in other words cost money. I’m sure they don’t think it would be worth it. The closest they come, on some parts you’ll note the first and second group of digits has a letter separating them or added at the end. Usually this designates a major change, like the 72/82 backplate. Early version was 7217, the newer reinforced one is 7217A.

Mike the Rajul:

Saito Notes is way too big to post, and the overhaul file isn’t ready for general publication. I’m still willing to send a copy to anyone who asks for it, all I have to have is your email address. Neither is in .pdf format though, they are in .rtf or “Word” format, they don’t need Acrobat Reader to open. Any text editor works fine.

WMB:

The FA-72 is generally propped to turn 10 to 10.5K rpm on the ground, and a maximum of 12K in flight.

At first glance I’d say the FA-72 wasn’t enough for the Somethin’ Extra, but I’ll bow to Barry’s (blw) judgment, my last SE had a K&B 61 on it. It was a rocket.

I’ve listed you in Club Saito as member number 323. Welcome, sir.

Jpal:

I’ve wanted a TNC tach for a long time, never ordered one of the originals and then when Fromeco restarted production that ridiculous cartoon pilot on the face turned my stomach. Finally got one, but all it says on the face is “TNC,” the upper part is all black. I thnk they should have left their pilot in the comic book where they found him. See picture.

Dutch:

Run whatever fuel makes you happy, so long as it has about 4% castor in the blend. Personally, I’m stuck on 15% nitro, I think it’s the best compromise between cost and performance. Others do not agree. 30% nitro isn’t going to hurt a late Saito, but it might destroy an early high compression version. Helo fuel? Usually it’s the same as all others except a higher oil content. Run it if you want, wont hurt a thing. I’ll stick with Omega. At 15%.

And you’re member number 372 in Club Saito. Welcome to you as well.

Jonathan:

Saito Notes sent, now go back and get your email out of that post. Having it in the open is an invitation to spammers.

Mandtra:

How hot do you want your fuel? Tell me the amount of nitro desired, I’ll give you the mix.

Atlanta probably has a speed shop or two for hot rodders, that’s where I’d start looking.

Barry:

I have long been a fan of three bladed props, I seldom use anything else. Mostly MAS and Zinger, but I do have one Graupner, it’s flying on my Diablo. The Graupner seems to load the engine more than the MAS in a similar size and pitch, but in the air I don’t see much if any difference.

The 6502 was originally a Mostek product, Woz used it in the Apple I and Apple II because he could buy them for $30 or so, the next least expensive CPU was over $200. He did make it “Sing,” though.

If you didn’t like the 68000 you would have hated the CDP1802 from RCA. Sixteen 16 bit registers, any register could be assigned to any use. It was also the very first “RISC” chip, long before the “RISC” term was coined. It was such a good design that it’s still in production, now made by Intersil, and still being installed in new equipment. When the 8080 was struggling for a 2 mhz clock, and once in a while Federico Fagin at Zilog got a Z-80 to run at 4 mhz, the 1802 woud chug along happily at 6 mhz. It’s a NASA favorite too, been used on many space shots. The 6502, 6800, 8080, 8085, 8086, 8088, the Z-80, and even the 680x0 and Z-8000 are all long gone. The 1802 still solves problems.

Bill.

Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Ki19473.jpg
Views:	38
Size:	148.4 KB
ID:	515135  
Old 08-28-2006, 10:00 PM
  #4412  
WMB
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Great Falls, MT
Posts: 931
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Wow, I was born to be a Saito Club member. I'm #323. My birthday is 3/23. Woo-hoo. Thanks for the info guys.
MikeB
Old 08-28-2006, 10:14 PM
  #4413  
blw
My Feedback: (3)
 
blw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Opelika, AL
Posts: 9,447
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

I have a SE. I didn't build it but it was built very light. The guy got tired of repairing it and gave it to me. I have an Evo .46NT on it now. There are some guys on RCU that have .72s on theirs and couple with .82s. I'm also thinking of putting in on the SE but ground clearance is an issue with a 13" prop. I have a 12.25" now and had to chock up the gear 1/2 inch. I can't let it level out on grass. The nose has to be up some. After seeing the .72 pull around my pattern plane, I wouldn't be worried with it on the SE. I just don't know how much extra power it would have.

Funny arguments going on recently over 3 bladed props. Most of the people seem to follow old wives tales about them and don't seem to know much about aerodynamics in the issue. Some flatly claim that all 3 bladed props are inefficient. Period. They ignore the major airplane makers using more than 2 blades, and that a lot of pattern guys use them for good reasons.

Commode and Atari used them too. Atari was a step ahead with the first home VLSI chip for graphics. Graphics were vectored to the Antic chip for Player Missile routines. The graphics were faster on the Atari because of this. I think it ran at 1.77 mHz. I also got to know the WD FDC well too. RISC chips from England were used on the Atari TT computer around 1987. VW bought some units at the onset, but a lot of people didn't know that. My computer here is RISC. I learned the advantages of RISC when learning instruction cycles for the 68000. Sure makes sense. The 6502 was fun for some reason. Never learned C but I'm thinking of diving into Unix this winter. I remember laughing at a statement around 1986 that Unix would be around for decades. Yeah,right. No way for an already dinosaur of an OS. I sure was wrong but so was just about everyone else when that was written and we all laughed.
Old 08-28-2006, 11:07 PM
  #4414  
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Mary Esther, Florida, FL
Posts: 20,205
Likes: 0
Received 15 Likes on 14 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Barry:

There are several reasons for selecting a three or four bladed prop. One, as you noted, is ground clearance. The pattern fliers use then mostly because with three bladed the are smaller diameter for the same engine and air speed, this gives less tip noise. The noise is their reason. General aviation craft usually select them for the lower noise as well. Military airplanes have them partly for tip clearance, and partly for lessened gyroscopic effect. Large civil planes like the lessened gyroscopic effect, lowered precessive loads on the bearings make the engines run longer between overhauls. Many reasons.

Efficiency? Static thrust is less than a two bladed prop, but this is only because the air has less time to settle between the passing of the blades. In the air, as you approach pitch speed, all blades are running in undisturbed air so this problem goes away. The only advantage a two bladed prop has over a three of the same pitch is the larger prop disc area – the two bladed prop, for the same engine load, will always be a larger diameter.

Final reason for flying three bladed props? They just look better. Haw.

Commode? I always liked that, but Chuck Peddle (boss at Commodore) didn’t. The Commodore PET (Peddle’s Ego Trip) was true junk, a slow basic and a tiny keyboard along with its built-in cassette tape for mass storage, took a dedicated hobbyist to put up with it. Commodore lost with the Vic-20. Hustled it to aqll the computer shops, saying they’d never go to mass market with it. Then, after selling thousands at a high price to the computer stores, Peddle sold tens of thousands to Kmart and other retail stores to retail at a lower price than the computer stores had paid wholesale. Turned everybody against them. The Vic-20 was brain damaged anyway.

Apple won, and Atari lost. The Atari 800 was really a much better machine than the Apple II, but the Atari was a closed system, they wouldn’t give out any information on even the architecture, much less the operating system. Apple was open on both architecture and OS, anybody who wanted to build an accessory board for the Apple could, and many, including Billy Gates and Microsoft, did. Made the Apple a really hot machine in its early days.

Enough on that, just one more thing. If you just have to say “Unix” then get SunOS or the Caldera version, better support than the Berkley Unix. Better to get Linux. My first Linux was the Slackware, but it wasn’t long before I went to Red Hat. RH seems to be the best Linux. Not the cheapest, just the best.

Bill.
Old 08-29-2006, 07:15 AM
  #4415  
My Feedback: (102)
 
Hobbsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Colonial Beach, VA
Posts: 20,370
Likes: 0
Received 25 Likes on 25 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Bill, I'm not much for staying inside the fence or on the tracks, sometimes you just have to do things because you can. The engine barely sips the Diesel fuel with that prop and it makes lots of wind.

Barry, I like Graupners a lot, that particular size (12.5x7) 3 blade represents a much greater load than the Graupner 12x8 3 blade, this is a mystery to me but it's a fact. My Fox .74 Diesel turns the 12x8 at about 9,400 but struggles to get the 12.5x7 to 8,000. The Saito .72 turning the 12.5x7 at 7,600 is durn good power.
Old 08-29-2006, 12:02 PM
  #4416  
My Feedback: (10)
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Somers, WI
Posts: 1,754
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

The Ultimate Saito accessory!

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...ProdID=SAIP303
Old 08-29-2006, 02:17 PM
  #4417  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: stewartstown, PA
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Im running my Saito,very well i might add, on Omega 15% cas/syn from Morgan.It says on the fuel container not to use After Run as the fuel contains all that is needed to protect the engine as it "rests". Any comments? is it true! Ive always used after run to clean the motor and im a little concerned.....
Old 08-29-2006, 02:32 PM
  #4418  
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Mary Esther, Florida, FL
Posts: 20,205
Likes: 0
Received 15 Likes on 14 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Jason:

Many fuel makers are now saying there is no need to use ARO when running their fuels. My opinion? This is nonsense. Might be OK on a two stroke where the entire engine is flushed by the fuel mix when running, but a four stroke accumulates many contaminants in the engine that aren’t blown out in normal running.

When Morgan Fuels sets up a program to repair or replace my engined within 30 minutes of the damage being noticed, and of course at no cost to me, I might consider storing an engine without using after run oil.

In other words, until they put an effective guarantee in place about not needing ARO I’ll dismiss such claims as more marketing hype, more bull ^%# being thrown around.

None of this is to say that Omega isn’t good fuel, it’s almost the only fuel I use.

And I will continue using after run oil.

Bill.
Old 08-29-2006, 02:43 PM
  #4419  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: stewartstown, PA
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Thank you for your promt reply. Im using WD 40 as an after run... anything better spring to mind?
Old 08-29-2006, 02:55 PM
  #4420  
 
Sport_Pilot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Acworth, GA
Posts: 16,916
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

General aviation craft usually select them for the lower noise as well.
Actually they usually use them because of better performance at altitiude and speed, though some need the ground clearance. I don't think noise is an issue, most GA aircraft are quite enough if the mechanic doesn't strip the muffler of its baffles.
Old 08-29-2006, 03:10 PM
  #4421  
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Tokoroa, , NEW ZEALAND
Posts: 3,848
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

ORIGINAL: flycfii

The Ultimate Saito accessory!

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...ProdID=SAIP303
It has always amazed me why people actually pay good money to become a walking advertisign billboard.

How come a tee-shirt with an advertiser's branding on it costs more than a plain one?

If anyone wants to advertise on my head or back then they better ante-up with some free gear or pay me good money.

You don't see TV broadcasters carrying ads for free, or those big billboards paying for advertisers to paste their posters up on them do you?

Come on guys, you're selling yourselves too cheap :-)

That's also why you won't see any of those stickers (JR/Hitec/OS/whatever) on my models. Hell, I had to buy their gear, why should I also give them free advertising to boot?

:-)
Old 08-29-2006, 03:16 PM
  #4422  
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Mary Esther, Florida, FL
Posts: 20,205
Likes: 0
Received 15 Likes on 14 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Jason:

WD-40 and similar penetrants that come in spray cans are easy to use, and they are fine for cleaning. Within a day or two though, 90% of them will evaporate leaving minimal protection on the inside of the engine. Ordinary Dexron ATF, or a good air tool oil, is not only less expensive, but it gives much better long term protection.

If you really want an aerosol can, go to your local boating supply house, they sell foaming preservatives that work well. CorrosionX is one example, it’s Hobbsy’s favorite. Expensive, but it does work.

My method is a huge slug of ATF in the engine, then a turn or three by hand to be certain it’s not too much, then 20-30 seconds spinning with my electric starter. This sloshes the oil everywhere inside, and blows the excess out the vent.

Bill.
Old 08-29-2006, 03:27 PM
  #4423  
 
Ernie Misner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Tacoma, WA
Posts: 5,037
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Does anyone know if the Castrol M actually says it mixes with methanol? It must though because it is being used that way.

Thanks,

Ernie
Old 08-29-2006, 03:31 PM
  #4424  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: stewartstown, PA
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Thanks again o wise one.You talk in the thread of Perry and cline pumps,what are they,what motivates them to pump, and who sells them? My $200 should have reached ypur paypal by now.Thanks
Old 08-29-2006, 04:38 PM
  #4425  
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Mary Esther, Florida, FL
Posts: 20,205
Likes: 0
Received 15 Likes on 14 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Jason:

The only true pumps are the ones from Perry. The Cline and Iron Bay devices, as well as the “Pump” from Saito, are pressurized fuel systems.

Perry pumps come in two types, one is operated by the vibration of the engine (VP-20), the other is pwoered by pressure pulses from the crank case vent (VP-30).

The Cline and Iron Bay will work with any tank position, the Perry and Saito systems will not work well with a high tank as they have no way to prevent siphoning.

There’s a more detailed discussion in Saito Notes, if you’re interested.

So you sent $200 to my PayPal. That’s your first month’s dues. Where is the $1000 for your initiation fee? Haw.

For ALL:

Latest version of Saito Notes is dated 8/27 – ping me if you want an update.

Bill.

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.