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Welcome to Club SAITO !

Old 09-07-2006, 07:26 PM
  #4526  
blw
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Bruce,

It appears that you need to take a look at the current Edge 540s, Sukois, and Extras flying the full scale circuit right now. They hang on props and do a lot of those other 'over powered' things you said that you didn't like. Do a search for the Twin Ring Motegi video and you will see some of those things you said were not real. You may even enjoy the video and being wrong about things......
Old 09-07-2006, 07:58 PM
  #4527  
P47 Jug - Al
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I have a Saito 100 that I need some help with. My problem is a somewhat irregular noise from 2/3 throttle up. The noise is like a knock coming from within the engine. If I do a loop with the plane, when I start up, the extra load on the engine makes the knock more pronounced.

The 100 is on the Hanger 9 P47 spinning a 14x8 top flight prop, 15% nitro / 18% oil content Wildcat fuel. I have tried both the glow plug that came with the engine and an OS type F. Both plugs gave similar results. The engine has had about a gallon of fuel through it. It spins the prop at about 8900 at full throttle and a smooth idle is down to about 2800 now. Valve adjustment appears OK.

Any thoughts?

Thanks

Al
Old 09-07-2006, 08:00 PM
  #4528  
IronCross
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !


ORIGINAL: loughbd

Hi Bill,

Is there some special reason you had to make that announcement?
Probably to explain to us why we are getting new post notifications for posts of yours dated months ago... I have received 4 so far and the posts were dated months ago... It was kind of confusing until Bill explained it ....
Old 09-08-2006, 12:16 AM
  #4529  
jessiej
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ORIGINAL: JettPilot

I would not be happy with a plane that had true scale power, but maybe some people would be
A "scale" Cub with vertical climb would seem a contradiction in terms. By definition a scale model is one that replicates a full scale craft. If speed, veritcal climb, etc are important why not build (or buy, for those so inclined)a model of a full scale aircraft that has those characteristics? If certain performance features outweigh realism why not a non-scale airplane designed specificaly to fit those requirements? Better yet, why not design your own? If you have not tried it there is a wealth of information in these fora, and a multitude of designer/builders who would be happy to help!

jess
Old 09-08-2006, 03:20 AM
  #4530  
NM2K
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ORIGINAL: P47 Jug - Al

I have a Saito 100 that I need some help with. My problem is a somewhat irregular noise from 2/3 throttle up. The noise is like a knock coming from within the engine. If I do a loop with the plane, when I start up, the extra load on the engine makes the knock more pronounced.

The 100 is on the Hanger 9 P47 spinning a 14x8 top flight prop, 15% nitro / 18% oil content Wildcat fuel. I have tried both the glow plug that came with the engine and an OS type F. Both plugs gave similar results. The engine has had about a gallon of fuel through it. It spins the prop at about 8900 at full throttle and a smooth idle is down to about 2800 now. Valve adjustment appears OK.

Any thoughts?

Thanks

Al

------------------


Does your engine make this noise while on the ground and being ran-up? If so, it sounds like your midrange is too lean, which is not common at all. Have you tried dropping back to a 14x6? I'm thinking your mixture is lean in the midrange, causing preignition. I'm not saying that you should fly your model with a 14x6, just try it to see if the reduced load eliminates the noise. I won't pretend to know which prop is right for your model/engine combination.
Old 09-08-2006, 05:49 AM
  #4531  
polver
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Hi Bill,

Was wondering if you still distribute you saito notes, if so I woul be gratefull of a copy.
By the way I have the 180 and 91.

Kind regards

Peter.
Old 09-08-2006, 06:05 AM
  #4532  
Hobbsy
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

A 14x6 on the 100 is a mighty small load for it allowing it to unload even more resulting in even leaner running. It sounds like his LS needle needs turned CCW at least a 1/8th of a turn. Saitos can knock when set too rich also.

One paragraph removed by moderator.....
Old 09-08-2006, 07:39 AM
  #4533  
P47 Jug - Al
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ORIGINAL: Artisan
ORIGINAL: P47 Jug - Al

I have a Saito 100 that I need some help with. My problem is a somewhat irregular noise from 2/3 throttle up. The noise is like a knock coming from within the engine. If I do a loop with the plane, when I start up, the extra load on the engine makes the knock more pronounced.

The 100 is on the Hanger 9 P47 spinning a 14x8 top flight prop, 15% nitro / 18% oil content Wildcat fuel. I have tried both the glow plug that came with the engine and an OS type F. Both plugs gave similar results. The engine has had about a gallon of fuel through it. It spins the prop at about 8900 at full throttle and a smooth idle is down to about 2800 now. Valve adjustment appears OK.

Any thoughts?

Thanks

Al
------------------

Does your engine make this noise while on the ground and being ran-up? If so, it sounds like your midrange is too lean, which is not common at all. Have you tried dropping back to a 14x6? I'm thinking your mixture is lean in the midrange, causing preignition. I'm not saying that you should fly your model with a 14x6, just try it to see if the reduced load eliminates the noise. I won't pretend to know which prop is right for your model/engine combination.

It makes the sound on the ground as well as in the air. I followed the break-in procedure in Saito's book and noticed the sound the first time the engine was run beyond the half way point and still very rich. The sound has never NOT been there and there has only been slightly more than a gallon through it with the first 1/2 gallon being used on the ground for low speed break in. I have never experienced this sound in my Saito 82's. This is my biggest Saito and only 100 so I have yet to learn if it has some unique characteristics. I was hoping this was simply – it needs more fuel it to loosen up – but maybe I do not have the mixtures set right.
Old 09-08-2006, 11:12 AM
  #4534  
loughbd
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

I run a 14x6 on an 80. Little small for a 100.
Old 09-08-2006, 04:26 PM
  #4535  
scratchonly
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Me too. A 100 should have a 14x 8 or15x6.
Old 09-08-2006, 09:37 PM
  #4536  
rtn9105
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Just out of curiosity what RPM's are you guys getting with the 14x8-15x6 props on your 100's?

I've been told that my 100 is an uncommonly strong engine but I'm running an APC 17x4 and turning 9000 rpm's. I run 12-14oz of fuel in a flight and the engine temp has never been over 170deg, I just love this engine.
Old 09-08-2006, 10:33 PM
  #4537  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

9200 on the 14x8 and 8800 on the 15x6 w/15% omega, both props are apc brand.
Old 09-09-2006, 03:47 PM
  #4538  
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ORIGINAL: William Robison

[b]Tycho:

As Mike said, the start setting of the LS needle is slightly below flush with the flat face of the throttle lever. It will be rich, but it will run. Don’t worry about how many turns out it is, just set it to position. And begin with the HS about three turns out on the mid block engines.
Ok, so it should be set as shown in the attached picture, correct?

Thanks,

tychoc
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Old 09-09-2006, 04:15 PM
  #4539  
w8ye
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That's correct
Old 09-09-2006, 05:19 PM
  #4540  
rajul
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

That is correct Tychoc, about 0.5mm below the surface of the throttle arm. Doen't need to be accurate, as long as the engine is rich.
Old 09-09-2006, 11:01 PM
  #4541  
WMB
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Saito 45 running report:
Hi all, I've gotten some more flights on the 4*40. Tried different fuels. It really likes the 30% heli fuel. The idle and transition are great with this. After a good prime, starts on one flip. With the idle low and steady, the plane is SO easy to land. Will continue to play with fuels as it gets more time on it. Awesome gas mileage as well, I'll be installing a 4 oz tank. Should give me about 15 minutes at full throttle.
Thanks again, MikeB
Old 09-09-2006, 11:23 PM
  #4542  
loughbd
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I am using two Saito 45's now. One in an Ace 4-40 and one in a Sky Loop 404. Both run on 10% nitro which is more than enough.
Old 09-10-2006, 09:03 AM
  #4543  
teryn1
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Does anyone know about a Saito "timing tool" for the Saito 325 5-cylinder radial?

Thanks,
Teryn
Old 09-10-2006, 11:32 AM
  #4544  
NM2K
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !


ORIGINAL: Hobbsy

A 14x6 on the 100 is a mighty small load for it allowing it to unload even more resulting in even leaner running. It sounds like his LS needle needs turned CCW at least a 1/8th of a turn. Saitos can knock when set too rich also.

One paragraph removed by moderator.....

-----------------


All right, stop the music.

Since when does lightening the load make an engine run lean? Horsefeathers. It's just the opposite, but it is most noticable in two-strokes and not as noticable in four-strokes unless you have a dynamometer.

Yes, the 14x6 is a SLIGHTLY small load for a 1.00 four-stroke. Not mighty. It is a perfectly acceptable load for a .91 four-stroke. Did I slide into a different universe recently and am only now beginning to notice it? <G>

My point was not to run the engine very long at full throttle, but to run the engine in the midrange to confirm whether the sound was being created by preignition, which, incidentally, is worsened by increased prop load.
Old 09-10-2006, 12:07 PM
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NM2K
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ORIGINAL: scratchonly

Me too. A 100 should have a 14x 8 or15x6.

-----------------


I'm two blocks ahead of you guys. You are missing the point of using the 14x6. Probably because you are convinced that I am some old timer that is stupid and behind the times. Thanks.

I am recommending the use of a lighter than normal flying prop so it can be used as a diagnostic tool. Ever heard of that concept before? I am not recommending the lighter than normal prop for actual prolonged flight operation. I am trying to pin down whether this truly is preignition and if it is, what is causing it. Changing a prop is a very simple task that can provide the diagnostician with useful data WIHOUT having to change the needles significantly or tearing the engine apart.

Frankly, I'm a little disgusted with the lot of you. You're not as bright as I had hoped. Now I'm outta here.
Old 09-10-2006, 05:27 PM
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tukkus
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i have a question about the muffler tube(not sure of the actual name) used to connect the muffler to the engine on a satio 82.... should the tube be screwed in completely to the point where it won't go in any further on the muffler itself and the engine and then tighten the nuts?.... i had a problem with my engine today thats never happened before....it just quit on me several times coming down to idle and it also lock up a couple of times when i tried starting it. The only thing i can think of that has changed about it since i installed it on a new plane is i never scredwed the muffler tube in all that way before.... could that be the problem?
Old 09-10-2006, 08:39 PM
  #4547  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Tukkus,

That tube is called the muffler manifold. On my 82, I've never bottomed it out against the cylinder head, I just tightened the jam nut once I had things in position. I never had a problem with the muffler loosening up.

How is the motor mounted, by the way. That might give the guys here some reason for the symptoms that you're seeing.

Bob
Old 09-10-2006, 09:31 PM
  #4548  
tukkus
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the engine is mounted upright but i dont think that is the problem since it was like that for 50 flights on my Twist with no problems.... the only thing that has changed is that i do remember screwing in the manifold until it stopped in the muffler, maybe that caused too much back pressure?
Old 09-10-2006, 09:41 PM
  #4549  
blw
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

tukkas- the locking up when starting may be hydrolock. Too much fuel in the cylinder. You can tilt the plane where it may run out of the muffler. Some people let it drain down into the crankcase before gently trying to turn the prop by hand. Some pull the glowplug and use a starter to blow out the excess fuel. Always turn the engine over by hand after you prime it...just to be sure it isn't hydrolocked before you hit it with a starter.

Teryn- guess nobody has one so far. You have this engine? What do you think of it?
Old 09-10-2006, 09:45 PM
  #4550  
tukkus
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i don't think it was hydrolocked because at one point it was running for a minut or two then it quit, when i tried starting it again it locked up and the prop nut came spinning off

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