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Old 03-18-2020, 04:15 AM
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Yes there were three different cr. The early was 10.5, version 2 was 12.7, version 3 was 8.6. It's good to know that you found the pop up piston in an engine without the cylinder bulge, that helps. Thanks.

I could probably make a high compression version out of my 65 by shaving the case deck and installing a pop up piston.

Last edited by Glowgeek; 03-18-2020 at 04:42 AM.
Old 03-18-2020, 04:52 AM
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Not a peak RPM addict here, if I were I surely would not own four strokes. Also not a huge fan of the HC versions of most engines. The HC dual plug is just a giggles project. The dual plugs to promote flame propagation with the pop-up type HC piston. I will then drop the CR to compare running qualities at low and mid-range with various props.
Old 03-18-2020, 05:09 AM
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If I had a pop up piston and shaved the deck of my 8.6:1 fa-65 I would not try to achieve 12.7:1 right from the start. I modded my 82 to get 11.75:1 and it's nice right there on 15% nitro content fuel. I would shoot for a similar number on the 65 and go up from there if power continues to improve and handling remains good. The engine has to handle well or I'm not interested in running it. If I go too far a shim will fix it.

All said, Clarence Lee was impressed with the version 2 (12.7:1). He was surprised at how well it handled and attributed it the combustion chamber and piston shapes. Saito did change the cylinder at least 3 times on the 65. I can only see the changes on the outside, who knows if if there were changes to the combustion chamber over the three versions.

Last edited by Glowgeek; 03-19-2020 at 01:50 AM.
Old 03-18-2020, 05:24 AM
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Interesting too is that even though the 65 has a smaller bore than the 72 and 80 engines it shares the same valves and cam. Excellent compliments to a higher compression ratio.
Old 03-18-2020, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Glowgeek
Interesting too is that even though the 65 has a smaller bore than the 72 and 80 engines it shares the same valves and cam. Excellent compliments to a higher compression ratio.
Actually, higher compression ratios tend to accompany longer duration cam timing.
Old 03-18-2020, 09:13 AM
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Old 03-18-2020, 12:16 PM
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My .65 looks just like this one except for having a "P" on one lug and a different carb with a slow speed needle. The piston is too black to see.if it has a hump or I am unable to get enough light in the hole.

Originally Posted by Captcrunch44
no that one is too new.
but here is a left and right of mine.



or do you want the left and right of a newer one
Old 03-18-2020, 01:00 PM
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It couldn't be your old eyes just can't see that well anymore, could it?

I have worn glasses all my life to see in the distance, Now I have to take THOSE off and put on READERS to see up close.

Getting old sucks
Old 03-18-2020, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by acdii
It couldn't be your old eyes just can't see that well anymore, could it?

I have worn glasses all my life to see in the distance, Now I have to take THOSE off and put on READERS to see up close.

Getting old sucks
That could very well be it!
Old 03-18-2020, 01:11 PM
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Well, I now have to set up a home office to work from. We were sent home today for the next few weeks, and will work from home. I decided to set mine up in my workshop. I just need to drag my glass top drafting table down here and use that for the desk for now. I was planning to bring it down here anyway to lay out plans that I can make tracings off i=of by putting a light under it to shine up through the plans. Two birds, one trip.
Old 03-18-2020, 03:39 PM
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Well shoot, no HC joy for Lonnie. I tore down the "new to me" 65 and no pop up piston. Looking closely at the engine it's clear now that I got a version 3 (8.6:1) engine and exhaust with the version 1 air bleed carb and older rocker covers. This engine is already Frankensteined for me! On the bright side it looks pretty good inside and out. Just needs cleaned up, new bearings, drive collet and tappets. Not too bad.

Gary, did you say you had a spare pop up piston for a 65?

Last edited by Glowgeek; 03-19-2020 at 01:53 AM.
Old 03-18-2020, 06:10 PM
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I hope all my Saito friends say healthy and safe for the weeks and months to come, and you friends that have (like me) respiratory problems take extra care to stay away from the c- #19 virus. any one that knows me would tell you I'm not one to worry about a sickness, but I hope my Advair is enough to keep my lungs clear if I do get it.

Pete, keep clean and safe my friend !! BYW Pete, the other day RCGroups was offering up Latina Girls for dating, what do you say about you and I signing up

Jim.
Old 03-18-2020, 07:43 PM
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Jim, the first thing Pete will want to know is who is buying the beer.
Old 03-18-2020, 09:25 PM
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a cool video, BTW are those Saito mufflers ?

Jim

Old 03-19-2020, 02:26 AM
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I "think" that the bulge was to make room for the brass cylinder in the ABC version, the AAC would not need that bulge.
Old 03-19-2020, 03:01 AM
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According to the sceptreflight articles all three versions of the 65 are ringed abc engines. Could have been to strengthen the cylinder at the base to handle the increased power of the 12.7:1 version 2? Or perhaps as a way to identify the cylinders, version 1 vs. version 2?
Old 03-19-2020, 04:11 AM
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My comment regarding cam timing relationships to compression ratio were not meant to imply that Saito was driven to that end. It is a general tuning measure that the all important DYNAMIC compression is diminished by larger valve openings and duration. To accommodate that loss, the numeric compression ratio is often raised .
Old 03-19-2020, 04:33 AM
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Yep, I get that. Unless saito reduced the valve sizes on the later 65 I don't understand why they lowered the cr all the way down to 8.6 from the previous 12.7. Why not back down to the original 10,5? Of course there is no way for me to check the valve sizes on the ver 1 or ver 2 because I don't have one. All three versions use the same cam.

Note: On the saito info page the 65 is rated at .95 hp where the 62 is rated at 1.0 hp. I'm assuming that spec is for the ver 3 fa65 (8.6:1)
Specifications

The ver 2 (12.7:1) makes closer to 1.25 hp as reported by many who have seen it spin an apc 13x6 at 10200 plus rpm

Last edited by Glowgeek; 03-19-2020 at 04:41 AM.
Old 03-19-2020, 05:01 AM
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High compression gets to a point where engines get rude.
Old 03-19-2020, 05:06 AM
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So I hear, I've never had one with compression that high.

Got a pop up piston you could spare for my 65?

Thanks
Old 03-19-2020, 06:34 AM
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I have had several that suited my needs far better with a C/R reduction. Car, truck, Go Cart, Motorcycle and RC engines. Especially ENYA four strokes. Had a few local flyers who hated their Enya 80s till I convinced them they would love them with a .008' head shim.
Not right now. Saving mine for possible shaping with the dual plug.
Old 03-19-2020, 08:26 AM
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Ok, thanks
Old 03-19-2020, 11:43 AM
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Will let you know when I can turn one loose.
Getting down to just a very few parts left , and they are chosen for a purpose in mind.
This is the first year that the season will open and I won't have a single Saito powered plane in the lineup.
Old 03-19-2020, 12:09 PM
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sacrilege!!
Old 03-19-2020, 01:14 PM
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Probably not flying anyhow. But in the meantime moving back to YS and Enyas.
Keeping a Saito or three for old time sake.

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