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Old 04-14-2020, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Glowgeek

Stay safe my friend, things are getting weird here.
Getting?! I think they are already weird and getting weirder all the time.
Old 04-14-2020, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Glowgeek
Thanks for forwarding this Mike, good stuff!

Pete, as you know, the arguments for and against the 115 and 125 are plentiful. Just thought I'd find out for myself how a well run in 115 and 125 compare for real. Both will have been thoroughly cleaned, de-carboned and new bearings, cams and tappets installed just to keep things on the up and up. Both will be run on the same day with the same props, glow plug and fuel. I'll try and make sure I hold my head the same position during testing too.

I don't expect to see much difference on the top end swinging smaller props but the 125 should do much better swinging bigger lumber.

Stay safe my friend, things are getting weird here.

Did you replace the cam in the 125 I just sent?
Old 04-14-2020, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Jesse Open
Did you replace the cam in the 125 I just sent?
Well yes, seemed like a good idea.

All cleaned up for pics:







Old 04-14-2020, 01:53 PM
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Thanks for the pic. Yes, that is a bad one.
Do I owe you ?


Looks like it had been run very loose at some time, that wasn't an oil issue!

Saito cams are not the strongest part. They are made from sintered powdered metal . Not solid.
How did you like the muffler?

Last edited by Jesse Open; 04-14-2020 at 01:58 PM.
Old 04-14-2020, 02:14 PM
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Heck no, you don't owe me a thing. If anything I have some some catching up to do in the favor arena. It's going to be a real looker when it comes out of the crock!

Thinking about my 115/125 showdown coming up and trying to keep things fair, what would it cost to get that factory tail piece from you?
Old 04-14-2020, 04:03 PM
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Jesse you want to part with the 125 carb send me a pm Ill take it. You guys have the virus up there pretty bad I hope things get better.

Originally Posted by Jesse Open
They are 45 degree. Made for the 120 > 180 big block.

I do have a brand new 125 carb. A spare from the FG-20 conversion to methanol..
Old 04-15-2020, 03:56 AM
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Gary, pm sent.
Old 04-15-2020, 04:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Glowgeek
Gary, pm sent.

Lonnie, I have a well broken in 1.15 and a not quite broken in 1.25, I'll join you in the comparo although without APC props. I'll run both with glow plugs.
Old 04-15-2020, 05:20 AM
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I think both of you running a 1.15 and 1.25 but with different props to be of great interest. I will warn you Pete is watching with interest too.

Mike
Old 04-15-2020, 05:34 AM
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One of these days I need to get my P-51 out of the trailer and get that engine running. Couldn't get it started last time out, but when it ran, it ran great, Really rips the prop on a low pass.
Old 04-15-2020, 06:20 AM
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Anyone have an FA125 stock muffler they can let me borrow or buy? It's that weird 13mm threading size and won't fit anything except a 125. I need one to run my 115/125 performance comparison test.
Old 04-15-2020, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Glowgeek
Anyone have an FA125 stock muffler they can let me borrow or buy? It's that weird 13mm threading size and won't fit anything except a 125. I need one to run my 115/125 performance comparison test.
How about this one, on the house, you'll need a 3mm x 16 screw or use this stainless one temporarily. I made the bracket.

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Old 04-15-2020, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Glowgeek
Anyone have an FA125 stock muffler they can let me borrow or buy? It's that weird 13mm threading size and won't fit anything except a 125. I need one to run my 115/125 performance comparison test.
You lucky stiff! I was able to come up with a genuine 125 muffler for you. Will try to get it out this week.

Those 13 mm threads are popular on YS. That is what those two mufflers I sent Dave will fit. I figured now that Dave has a lathe, he may make up an adapter or two.

Last edited by Jesse Open; 04-15-2020 at 03:37 PM.
Old 04-15-2020, 04:36 PM
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Great news Gary, thanks. PM sent.

Dave, thanks for the side mount muffler offer. I don't really have an application for that muffler config. Better to pass it on to someone in need?
Old 04-15-2020, 06:18 PM
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Good practice to make a 12 mm to 13mm adapter ad run on one of your Saitos
Old 04-16-2020, 01:56 AM
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Maybe some off the guys working on the War Birds can use it.
Old 04-16-2020, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Jesse Open
Thanks for the pic. Yes, that is a bad one.
Do I owe you ?


Looks like it had been run very loose at some time, that wasn't an oil issue!

Saito cams are not the strongest part. They are made from sintered powdered metal . Not solid.
How did you like the muffler?
Not sure about that one Gary. Even though it was hard to capture in the pics if you look closely you'll see that the tappets wore grooves in the lobes as soon as they left the base circle. The grooves start there and go all the way over the nose and down the other side of the lobe to the closing side base circle. Also, the valve stems wore grooves into the rocker arms and the tappets were worn well over halfway to their centers. Otherwise the engine appears to be in all other aspects a fairly low time unit. Starved for oil or improper oil me thinks.

I do agree the lash was not properly maintained as evidenced by the large dent on the cam lobe. There was a bent pushrod on the exhaust side as well.

I'm wondering what oil was used because the carbon it formed was the toughest I've ever had to remove. I never did get all of it out from around the exhaust seat even after 2 24hr cycles in the crock. Lacquer thinner won't touch the stuff either.

It's all cleaned up now and looking great, just waiting on bearings now and then it's off to the races!




Last edited by Glowgeek; 04-16-2020 at 04:53 PM.
Old 04-16-2020, 07:33 PM
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My engines all run 12% Klotz, 2%Benol and never see anything like that . Very possible a gasoline type oil that does not mix well with methanol had been used at some point.

Many folks think alll synthetics will blend with methanol and of course they do not. The carbon thing adds to the puzzle .

I was saying I wont ever again sell an unknown engine without tearing it down. Out of all the engines luck would have it, you got the pigs of the litter.. Every single other was a gem and got excellent feedback, I did tear a120 down to the last screw, the buyer left glowing feedback.

Funny thing though, I ran that 125?on the stand and in my fuel it ran great. Fine idle and strong top end. Sometimes perfect is the worst enemy of good.




Old 04-17-2020, 03:07 AM
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Gary, now that you mention it they may have run a gasser oil in that 125. The light bulb just came on! Amzoil synthetic has a history of making carbon residue thats extremely difficult to remove and of course would not mix well with alcohol.

Replacing valvetrain parts in pre-owned saitos is the norm in my experience, I expect it. When I rebuild them I'm looking for longevity so anything with abnormal wear gets replaced. Nothing has to be perfect, just usable long term. The 2 engines you sent were no exception and I have no problem with that at all.

Cosmetics is a different story. You can't polish a turd. That's where both of the engines you sent are exceptional, they look terrific.




Old 04-17-2020, 04:42 AM
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I'll bet that the cam bushing is not worn at all, a better indicator of a dry cam.
Old 04-17-2020, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Hobbsy
I'll bet that the cam bushing is not worn at all, a better indicator of a dry cam.

Can't tell you Dave, I only ran about 14 ounces of GOOD fuel with a complete oil package.
The past users oiling is unknown. If he used a gasoline type oil that didn't mix well wth methanol the lube would be hit and miss. The cam is about the most oil hungry area in the engine. Also mentioned was a bent pushrod. Of course a bent pushrod equals excess rocker clearance. That can hammer a cheap o Saito powder metal cam very badly.
Old 04-17-2020, 12:51 PM
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The Achilles heel of Saito engines is the small diameter cam hammers. Oh sorry, I meant tappets.

Last edited by Glowgeek; 04-17-2020 at 01:00 PM.
Old 04-17-2020, 02:05 PM
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Just as with full size flat tappet systems, an extreme pressure lubricant not only extends life but helps immensely when conditions get less than ideal.
Old 04-17-2020, 02:41 PM
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OS/ASP/Magnum/TT/Enya tappets are larger diameter with a slightly different cam profile to suit. I've never seen a bad tappet or cam in one of those when cleaning them up. Im guessing those owners used the same commonly available fuels as most of the rest of us. I commonly see valve lash clearances well over .010" in those pre-owned engines too but unlike Saito, no visible damage.

If you want a lightweight engine that runs like the devil it's going to require a little more maintenance. What does it take, like 5 minutes to adjust the valve lash?
Old 04-17-2020, 03:05 PM
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Before the flying season starts I'm swapping out the fa100 on my clipped 4*60 for an OS fs91. It's not what you might think. The 4* isn't my kind of plane really so I'm going to beat living crap out of it. I mean really huck it around just to see how much abuse it can take before something gives. When it goes in I'd rather see an OS munch dirt than one of my prized possessions.

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