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Old 06-13-2020, 04:09 PM
  #46576  
the Wasp
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errr

my last cycle, at .500 mah
in 1637
out 788, cutoff at 4.8.

boy is that bad, I will send Steve at NBS Batteries an Email to see if he will replace it.

I am charging it now at 1.300 A, just to see what happens
Jim

Last edited by the Wasp; 06-13-2020 at 04:22 PM.
Old 06-13-2020, 04:39 PM
  #46577  
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Jim, your delta peak detection is kicking out at 4.8v? Or is your min discharge voltage set to 4.8v?

If it's a 4.8v NiMh batt fully charged should be 5.4v, fully discharged should be 4.4v.

Delta peak detection should be set initially to .6mv. If it won't charge to rated capacity increase it to .7mv or .8mv if that's what it takes. Monitor the temp when it's getting close to 5.4v. It should get warm but not hot before the delta peak detection turns off the charge cycle.

NiMh batts should be charged at no more than C/10. If your batt is 2000 mah max charge current should be no more than 200 mah.

Last edited by Glowgeek; 06-13-2020 at 04:42 PM.
Old 06-13-2020, 06:12 PM
  #46578  
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Originally Posted by Glowgeek View Post
Jim, your delta peak detection is kicking out at 4.8v? Or is your min discharge voltage set to 4.8v?

If it's a 4.8v NiMh batt fully charged should be 5.4v, fully discharged should be 4.4v.

Delta peak detection should be set initially to .6mv. If it won't charge to rated capacity increase it to .7mv or .8mv if that's what it takes. Monitor the temp when it's getting close to 5.4v. It should get warm but not hot before the delta peak detection turns off the charge cycle.

NiMh batts should be charged at no more than C/10. If your batt is 2000 mah max charge current should be no more than 200 mah.
it's the discharging I have set to kick off at 4.8.

yes I can set the cutoff point for discharging. and yes I usually do set it at 4.4 but not on a brand new pack. yet my charger's manual says to set the cutoff at .9 per cell. ,9 x 4= 3.6v LOL. and. Steve at NBS Batteries did tell me in an Email to trickle at .300 because the pack is a 2700 MAH pack.. and you can see I did cycle them at .200 and then a 2nd time at.300.

as for the charge rate of "C/10" yee-up, that's what some say, yet the sticker on "all" my NiMH packs (and the chart-card) says "fast charge at a Maximum of 1.5 Amp and trickle at .250.MAH

as for the Delta Peak setting. I don't think I can change it. it really doesn't need to be changed, the packs get warm enough. but it does have a false peak restart, I can set it to auto restart up to 5 times after the first peak, I have it set to restart 2 extra times. so the packs do get warm.

I have been charging and cycling these things since 1986 and I have never had this problem unless the packs are old. this is why I like these NiCad and NiMH. I have two 3000 NiMH Sub-C packs that are just about 12 years old and today each pack cycle out to with-in .40 MAH of their rated capacity. their my starter packs

hey, I have an old Tekin BC250 SCR 9 Amp Charger, bought in 1988 for buggy racing. it will put out 10 Amps if the Chevy's engine is running. that would charge a 1200 SCR in about 10 minutes if the Chevy engine is running LOL

it's a beauty,



Jim

Last edited by the Wasp; 06-13-2020 at 06:19 PM.
Old 06-14-2020, 03:39 AM
  #46579  
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Originally Posted by the Wasp View Post
it's the discharging I have set to kick off at 4.8.

yes I can set the cutoff point for discharging. and yes I usually do set it at 4.4 but not on a brand new pack. yet my charger's manual says to set the cutoff at .9 per cell. ,9 x 4= 3.6v LOL. and. Steve at NBS Batteries did tell me in an Email to trickle at .300 because the pack is a 2700 MAH pack.. and you can see I did cycle them at .200 and then a 2nd time at.300.

as for the charge rate of "C/10" yee-up, that's what some say, yet the sticker on "all" my NiMH packs (and the chart-card) says "fast charge at a Maximum of 1.5 Amp and trickle at .250.MAH.................Jim

When forming a new pack it's important to cycle it down to .9v per cell, C/2 discharge current works well for that and charge current should be set to C/10. During 2 or 3 of those cycles the pack can be checked for capacity. After the forming cycles are complete the pack can be charged faster if desired, I limit my fast charge current to C/2.

Now, if you're thinking hey, who runs their batts down to .9v per cell? The answer is no one, unless they are forming them or cycling them to refresh them. Thing is, that's how the batts are rated for capacity (minimum .9v to maximum 1.35v per cell)

Last edited by Glowgeek; 06-14-2020 at 04:13 AM.
Old 06-14-2020, 05:48 PM
  #46580  
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Great afternoon at the field, the FG21 ran flawless on the SeniorTele for 48 minutes on an 8 oz. tank. My new student is really catching on, didn't have to take control from him once today. I get the utmost pleasure from that, its the best part of the hobby for me
Old 06-14-2020, 07:03 PM
  #46581  
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Lonie. Steve at NBS Batteries is a stand up guy, see his Email back to me. notice what he says about the Discharge Rate vs Voltage Cutoff.. I Emailed him again and asked him if he wants me to cycle the pack again before I send it back>>

Steve's Email.
Jim… the 2700’s are notoriously stable; very high quality cells. If somethings wrong with the pack, I’ll be glad to replace it… just send it in. However, I suspect you’ve got a setup issue with your cycler; looks like your discharge cutoff voltage is too high. The cutoff voltage is dependent on the discharge current… assuming you are using a 300ma load, the discharge cutoff would be 1v per cell. (4.0v) If using a higher load, the cutoff voltage would be even lower.. down to .8v per cell. From the FAQ:

Jim


Last edited by the Wasp; 06-14-2020 at 07:05 PM.
Old 06-14-2020, 07:25 PM
  #46582  
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but all that still doesn't explain why the pack only discharged 1264 mah at a rate of 300 /w cutoff at 4,8v, if the cutoff was set at 4v it would have to make up 1436 mah with-in 0.4v, I don't think it's going to make 1435 up in 0.4v. I think the packs bad.


Jim

Last edited by the Wasp; 06-14-2020 at 07:44 PM.
Old 06-14-2020, 07:42 PM
  #46583  
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guys, on another twitch. Friday I bought an air riffle. just a cheap $84 thing. a Crosmand F4. but I think "I'm going to need a bigger gun" today I found Bear scat 6ft from my back deck's stairs LOL.
I live pretty much on the outer limits of the city so I called the animal control officer but he has not called me back, I'm guessing he will say the same thing he said when I called him about the red Fox I saw in my yard>>>> "just stay a way from it"

Jim
Old 06-15-2020, 02:32 AM
  #46584  
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As some of you know I am building another 120-S, as I ordered some parts at MacGregors I ordered a screw set, two of the screws have a Loctite like substance on them. I discovered that they are the hold down screws for the rocker stands . I removed the screws I had initially installed and installed the Loctited screws.

Last edited by Hobbsy; 06-15-2020 at 02:37 AM.
Old 06-15-2020, 03:08 AM
  #46585  
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Originally Posted by the Wasp View Post
but all that still doesn't explain why the pack only discharged 1264 mah at a rate of 300 /w cutoff at 4,8v, if the cutoff was set at 4v it would have to make up 1436 mah with-in 0.4v, I don't think it's going to make 1435 up in 0.4v. I think the packs bad.
Jim
Maybe, but you haven't proved it yet.

Set the discharge cutoff voltage to .9v per cell (3.6v) and the discharge current to C/2 (1.3 amps) and cycle it. I suspect you'll see over 2500 mah capacity.

Sent you a PM.
Old 06-15-2020, 03:28 AM
  #46586  
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Originally Posted by Hobbsy View Post
As some of you know I am building another 120-S, as I ordered some parts at MacGregors I ordered a screw set, two of the screws have a Loctite like substance on them. I discovered that they are the hold down screws for the rocker stands . I removed the screws I had initially installed and installed the Loctited screws.
In the words of Col. Klink, "Vellie Intallestink".

Those GK rocker stands add a nice touch of color.

Last edited by Glowgeek; 06-15-2020 at 03:43 AM.
Old 06-15-2020, 05:40 AM
  #46587  
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Well I got a nice surprise over the weekend. I went out to the garage to look for some Velcro strips. Low and behold in the same drawer I have checked no less than a dozen times buried under a bunch of assorted stuff, including the Velcro, I found a gold and Black Saito box containing the missing Saito .80! Now I have to find the velocity stack I got for it. I suspect I put it on the wrong engine.

I do have a question for the group, is there a method for determining the correct length for a velocity stack for a specific Saito engine?
Old 06-15-2020, 01:26 PM
  #46588  
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Originally Posted by Glowgeek View Post
Maybe, but you haven't proved it yet.

Set the discharge cutoff voltage to .9v per cell (3.6v) and the discharge current to C/2 (1.3 amps) and cycle it. I suspect you'll see over 2500 mah capacity.

Sent you a PM.

Steve Emailed me today and told me to charge it at 1.5 amps and then discharge it at .300 mah and set the cutoff at 4v.. it been discharging for 136 minutes 16 seconds LOL

Jim
Old 06-15-2020, 02:03 PM
  #46589  
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Originally Posted by Glowgeek View Post
Maybe, but you haven't proved it yet.

Set the discharge cutoff voltage to .9v per cell (3.6v) and the discharge current to C/2 (1.3 amps) and cycle it. I suspect you'll see over 2500 mah capacity.

Sent you a PM.

Lonnie, thanks for the PM. I just sent you a PM, but I don't think you will receive it, after I clicked send the Internet window said the site can not be reached

Jim
Old 06-15-2020, 02:06 PM
  #46590  
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Originally Posted by Glowgeek View Post
In the words of Col. Klink, "Vellie Intallestink".

Those GK rocker stands add a nice touch of color.
yes they sure do look nice ! I wish Saito would make some black rocker covers with real cooling fins on them

Jim
Old 06-15-2020, 02:56 PM
  #46591  
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Originally Posted by the Wasp View Post
Lonnie, thanks for the PM. I just sent you a PM, but I don't think you will receive it, after I clicked send the Internet window said the site can not be reached

Jim
Didn't receive pm. Feel free to call anytime Jim.
Old 06-15-2020, 03:31 PM
  #46592  
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Originally Posted by FlyerInOKC View Post
Well I got a nice surprise over the weekend. I went out to the garage to look for some Velcro strips. Low and behold in the same drawer I have checked no less than a dozen times buried under a bunch of assorted stuff, including the Velcro, I found a gold and Black Saito box containing the missing Saito .80! Now I have to find the velocity stack I got for it. I suspect I put it on the wrong engine.

I do have a question for the group, is there a method for determining the correct length for a velocity stack for a specific Saito engine?

Wow, wish I had an 80GK hidden around my shop somewhere.lol Glad you found it!

Somewhere between 1/2" and 3/4" long should catch most of the carb spitback. More important is to make sure the inner diameter of the velocity stack is no smaller than the outer venturi opening of the carb. Trumpeting or flaring out the inlet end of the velocity stack will help to minimize turbulence caused by the Edy Effect and therefore allow air to enter with greater efficiency.


Last edited by Glowgeek; 06-15-2020 at 03:34 PM.
Old 06-15-2020, 06:31 PM
  #46593  
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Lonnie, I'm done with it, I got to Email Steve, and send it back.

hear's the result.

Discharge Rate at 300 mah,
time to discharge 7.5 hours
Cutoff Voltage 4v
MAH 2112

it ant no good!
Jim
Old 06-16-2020, 05:08 AM
  #46594  
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Originally Posted by Glowgeek View Post
Wow, wish I had an 80GK hidden around my shop somewhere.lol Glad you found it!

Somewhere between 1/2" and 3/4" long should catch most of the carb spitback. More important is to make sure the inner diameter of the velocity stack is no smaller than the outer venturi opening of the carb. Trumpeting or flaring out the inlet end of the velocity stack will help to minimize turbulence caused by the Edy Effect and therefore allow air to enter with greater efficiency.
I found the velocity stack last night too. Last night I was rebuilding the butchered wood of the engine mount area of Pinky Saito's ride and found the .80's stack on Pinky Saito. It is has been removed and will now go back on the .80 as intended.
Old 06-16-2020, 09:14 AM
  #46595  
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hey, where's the CaptCrunch ?? he's been gone a while. I sure hope he didn't catch that C #19 !!!!

Jim
Old 06-16-2020, 09:16 AM
  #46596  
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Nah, he's fine, texted with him yesterday.
Old 06-16-2020, 09:44 AM
  #46597  
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!
Originally Posted by acdii View Post
Nah, he's fine, texted with him yesterday.

good! tell him we all said "Hi"

Jim
Old 06-16-2020, 10:59 AM
  #46598  
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Originally Posted by acdii View Post
Nah, he's fine, texted with him yesterday.
Oh good, that eliminate jail too! They take your phone when they lock you up.
Old 06-16-2020, 11:22 AM
  #46599  
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No jail, though I did hear he was riding naked on a Bull through his home town last week.
Old 06-16-2020, 11:59 AM
  #46600  
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Originally Posted by acdii View Post
No jail, though I did hear he was riding naked on a Bull through his home town last week.
I didn't know Crunch was into performance art! I guess he could have been trying to beat the heat or show off his short comings.

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