Welcome to Club SAITO !
09-26-2006, 07:27 PM
#4726
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
ORIGINAL: Bone
I have a Saito 45 engine & really enjoy using the dear thing. Lately, I am considering purchasing a Saito 65 - it's intended use will be in both sports type & Old Timer planes. Wondering if any owners of the 65 can confirm it is just as sweet to run as the 45.
I have a Saito 45 engine & really enjoy using the dear thing. Lately, I am considering purchasing a Saito 65 - it's intended use will be in both sports type & Old Timer planes. Wondering if any owners of the 65 can confirm it is just as sweet to run as the 45.
Man!! It's probably the smoothest single cylinder Saito I own.
Sweet! [8D]
TC
09-27-2006, 05:16 AM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
ORIGINAL: Bone
I have a Saito 45 engine & really enjoy using the dear thing. Lately, I am considering purchasing a Saito 65 - it's intended use will be in both sports type & Old Timer planes. Wondering if any owners of the 65 can confirm it is just as sweet to run as the 45.
I have a Saito 45 engine & really enjoy using the dear thing. Lately, I am considering purchasing a Saito 65 - it's intended use will be in both sports type & Old Timer planes. Wondering if any owners of the 65 can confirm it is just as sweet to run as the 45.
Dave :^)
09-27-2006, 08:39 AM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Hi Agn, Just would like to hear some thoughts/suggestions on using and accessing the choke on the 45.
I've got my MKII 45 installed in a 40 Taube. The carb is close to the firewall and to access the little spring steel choke would require
smaller fingers than I've ever seen. Of course I can attach a 1/16 rod to the hole in the choke but then the darn thing would be
flopping around and probably be ugly looking. Maybe I could just make up the rod and not leave it permanently attached. I don't know, what do you guys do?
How often will I need to use the choke anyway, every time I do a cold start???
Your suggestions ideas etc, much appreciated.
Thanks,
Ray
I've got my MKII 45 installed in a 40 Taube. The carb is close to the firewall and to access the little spring steel choke would require
smaller fingers than I've ever seen. Of course I can attach a 1/16 rod to the hole in the choke but then the darn thing would be
flopping around and probably be ugly looking. Maybe I could just make up the rod and not leave it permanently attached. I don't know, what do you guys do?
How often will I need to use the choke anyway, every time I do a cold start???
Your suggestions ideas etc, much appreciated.
Thanks,
Ray
09-27-2006, 09:41 AM
#4731
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Does anyone knows where I could get gasket sets of the 300TDP, and the shop is willing to ship overseas? I have a pair of 300TDP that needs gaskets, piston rings, and one even had the thread of the glow plug stripped so it needs a whole upper crankcase, but I had a hard time trying to find a shop that sells parts for the 300TDP. Worst Horizon does not ship out of the States... I even sent both engines to my friend in Japan who worked in a big name hobby manufacturer, but when my friend called up Saito they just told him to trash the engines! Any help is highly appreciated.
09-27-2006, 10:02 AM
#4732
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
In Tokyo there are a couple of good hobby shops near the Akihabara train station. There are some nice small model kits sold in Japan that are not readily available elsewhere and maybe worth checking out, but don’t plan on getting an engine in Japan. Also, mail-order from Japan is usually not cost-effective as most places in Japan charge a lot for shipping.
http://www.dubai*********.org/
http://www.dubai*********.org/
09-27-2006, 01:40 PM
#4733
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Quick update.
My FA-125 has arrived.
The throttle barrel, like the FA-91, is steel so its wear will not be a great problem. The guide pin is also steel, having the smaller rubbing surface the great majority of what wear occurs will be on the pin, but it should not loosen any amount more for many hours running time.
But there is free play in the throttle barrel right out of the box. Only ten to twelve thousandths, but that’s enough to upset the mixture at a critical point.
The FA-91 carb also has the steel barrel, its external dimensions are the same as the FA-125, the 91 barrel will fit in the 125 carb, the 125 barrel will fit in the 91 carb body. But the 91 has a barrel spring. And the barrel spring also fits in the FA-125 carb with no modification.
Perhaps Hobbsy can verify no mixture problems running without a barrel spring, I’m going to install one anyway. Along with a stack and air filter.
Bill.
My FA-125 has arrived.
The throttle barrel, like the FA-91, is steel so its wear will not be a great problem. The guide pin is also steel, having the smaller rubbing surface the great majority of what wear occurs will be on the pin, but it should not loosen any amount more for many hours running time.
But there is free play in the throttle barrel right out of the box. Only ten to twelve thousandths, but that’s enough to upset the mixture at a critical point.
The FA-91 carb also has the steel barrel, its external dimensions are the same as the FA-125, the 91 barrel will fit in the 125 carb, the 125 barrel will fit in the 91 carb body. But the 91 has a barrel spring. And the barrel spring also fits in the FA-125 carb with no modification.
Perhaps Hobbsy can verify no mixture problems running without a barrel spring, I’m going to install one anyway. Along with a stack and air filter.
Bill.
09-27-2006, 02:06 PM
#4734
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Bill, I have my 1.25 out of the GoldBerg Tiger to run it one last time before flight, I'll do a little pushing and pulling on the carb barrel and see what happens. Geri has been in the hospital for a week and we just got home from the Dr., she's doing better. I haven't touched an engine or a plane for about 10 days. I'll get back to you.
09-27-2006, 04:37 PM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Bill,
Do you have a part number for the stack that will fit the 125 and is anything else needed to mount it? Thanks....
Do you have a part number for the stack that will fit the 125 and is anything else needed to mount it? Thanks....
09-27-2006, 04:37 PM
#4736
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Saito People,
Sometime back there were several posts in this thread regarding the relative efficiency of various makes of propellers. Is there any rule as to which will increase the load on one's Saito more; a one-inch increase in diameter, or a two-inch increase in pitch? I am aware of the parameters affected by pitch and diameter but was wondering about the power requirements generated by changing either.
Sometime back there were several posts in this thread regarding the relative efficiency of various makes of propellers. Is there any rule as to which will increase the load on one's Saito more; a one-inch increase in diameter, or a two-inch increase in pitch? I am aware of the parameters affected by pitch and diameter but was wondering about the power requirements generated by changing either.
09-27-2006, 06:01 PM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
ORIGINAL: Ray44
Hi Agn, Just would like to hear some thoughts/suggestions on using and accessing the choke on the 45.
I've got my MKII 45 installed in a 40 Taube. The carb is close to the firewall and to access the little spring steel choke would require
smaller fingers than I've ever seen. Of course I can attach a 1/16 rod to the hole in the choke but then the darn thing would be
flopping around and probably be ugly looking. Maybe I could just make up the rod and not leave it permanently attached. I don't know, what do you guys do?
How often will I need to use the choke anyway, every time I do a cold start???
Your suggestions ideas etc, much appreciated.
Thanks,
Ray
Hi Agn, Just would like to hear some thoughts/suggestions on using and accessing the choke on the 45.
I've got my MKII 45 installed in a 40 Taube. The carb is close to the firewall and to access the little spring steel choke would require
smaller fingers than I've ever seen. Of course I can attach a 1/16 rod to the hole in the choke but then the darn thing would be
flopping around and probably be ugly looking. Maybe I could just make up the rod and not leave it permanently attached. I don't know, what do you guys do?
How often will I need to use the choke anyway, every time I do a cold start???
Your suggestions ideas etc, much appreciated.
Thanks,
Ray
Hi Ray,
I have NEVER used the choke, it is not needed. What I do is to open the carb fully, place a finger over the end of the exhaust pipe/muffler & then turn the engine over 2 to 3 turns by hand. You will see the fuel being sucked up the tubing to the carb. Close the carb to the normal starting position (say 1/4 open), a couple more flips by hand, apply glow power & either hand flip or use starter. It should burst into life on the first attempt.
09-27-2006, 06:21 PM
#4738
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
All:
The FA-50, the FA-100, and all sizes singles between are what I refer to as the “Mid block” Saito engines. The FA-125, being an enlarged FA-100, is also a Mid block even though the FA-120 is a “Big block” design.
All the mi block engines have the carb mounted by two screws into the back plate, the Big block engines (except the original FA-120S) have the carb flange screwed to the end of the intake pipe.
All the mid block engines accept the SAI50GK93 intake stack. The bore of the stack is slightly smaller than the carb bore on the FA-125, but I don’t think there’s enough difference to affect the engine run. A spare o-ring to fit the upper end of the intake pipe does a good job of sealing the gap between the stack and the carb body. A little dab of RTV on the outside of the o-ring makes sure it stays in place. Then, with the Bru-Line air filter you’re ready to go downtown.
Bill.
The FA-50, the FA-100, and all sizes singles between are what I refer to as the “Mid block” Saito engines. The FA-125, being an enlarged FA-100, is also a Mid block even though the FA-120 is a “Big block” design.
All the mi block engines have the carb mounted by two screws into the back plate, the Big block engines (except the original FA-120S) have the carb flange screwed to the end of the intake pipe.
All the mid block engines accept the SAI50GK93 intake stack. The bore of the stack is slightly smaller than the carb bore on the FA-125, but I don’t think there’s enough difference to affect the engine run. A spare o-ring to fit the upper end of the intake pipe does a good job of sealing the gap between the stack and the carb body. A little dab of RTV on the outside of the o-ring makes sure it stays in place. Then, with the Bru-Line air filter you’re ready to go downtown.
Bill.
09-27-2006, 07:48 PM
#4740
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
For Bill Robison
this earlier post to you may have slipped past you because I didn't bold your name in the title. When you get a moment Bill, could you please advise.
[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4792617]My earlier post[/link]
Thanks
TC
this earlier post to you may have slipped past you because I didn't bold your name in the title. When you get a moment Bill, could you please advise.
[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4792617]My earlier post[/link]
Thanks
TC
09-28-2006, 10:36 AM
#4741
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
I’ve been running my 45MII installed in the Taube and still unable to get a
good idle. It seems as I go below 3000-3100rpm it will quit or be just ready to stop.
Top end is real good and smooth peaking at 95/9600rpm with 11X6 prop.
I believe this engine has had abt 3-4 gals of fuel thru it.
I’ve check the valve timing and all is as it should be.
I’ve changed to OS plug and no change.
So, lacking knowledge of the initial carb settings to start from if someone has the info
please let me know. I think I best start from square one.
Maybe with wx cooperation I can fly the Taube this weekend.
Thanks,
Ray
good idle. It seems as I go below 3000-3100rpm it will quit or be just ready to stop.
Top end is real good and smooth peaking at 95/9600rpm with 11X6 prop.
I believe this engine has had abt 3-4 gals of fuel thru it.
I’ve check the valve timing and all is as it should be.
I’ve changed to OS plug and no change.
So, lacking knowledge of the initial carb settings to start from if someone has the info
please let me know. I think I best start from square one.
Maybe with wx cooperation I can fly the Taube this weekend.
Thanks,
Ray
09-28-2006, 12:16 PM
#4742
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
I'm going to buy a Saito 180 for my H9 Ultra Stick. Do I need to use large fuel tubing, and larger brass tubing in the tank?
Thanks,
Joe
Thanks,
Joe
09-28-2006, 12:23 PM
#4743
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
I have a saito 65, now in a 65" curtiss hawk and flys it just fine. Had it in a 60" 8 lb jungmeister inverted which was only slightly underpowered, it ran fine. Bought it used at a swap meet for 200 bucks; I consider it my best buy of all time. It is what started me on Saitos; I now have 5.
09-28-2006, 12:57 PM
#4744
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Bill
I had a throttle hookup that was influencing the barrel even against the spring. I now ensure my throttle pushrod pulls outward slightly to prevent HS mixture changes. I removed most of the slop from my 80 by adjusting the guide screw but could not remove it all. I still have full travel but little excess.
I had a throttle hookup that was influencing the barrel even against the spring. I now ensure my throttle pushrod pulls outward slightly to prevent HS mixture changes. I removed most of the slop from my 80 by adjusting the guide screw but could not remove it all. I still have full travel but little excess.
09-28-2006, 09:22 PM
#4745
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
ORIGINAL: William Robison
All:
A spare o-ring to fit the upper end of the intake pipe does a good job of sealing the gap between the stack and the carb body. A little dab of RTV on the outside of the o-ring makes sure it stays in place.
Bill.
All:
A spare o-ring to fit the upper end of the intake pipe does a good job of sealing the gap between the stack and the carb body. A little dab of RTV on the outside of the o-ring makes sure it stays in place.
Bill.
09-29-2006, 01:46 AM
#4747
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Catch-up time again.
Just a quick side note - I have been staying busy with other affairs lately, so some of my responses here have been a bit delayed. Apologies. Add to that my experience as, among other things, an instructor makes me want to give as full an explanation as I can. So. Composing a reply with the explanation along with checking to be sure the answer is as correct as I can make it just takes longer than a simple yes or no, or a one or two word answer.
A part of my intention here is indeed as a schoolteacher, trying to make everyone able to do all their own maintenance and trouble shooting. Many more of you are responding to questions now than when this thread started, guess the learning is coming from somewhere whether it’s me or not.
To business.
TC:
I did not miss your question about the weight and load for each size engine, it’s just a question that has no answer. An FA-65 would do a very nice job of pulling a ten pound airplane, if it was a “Cub” type plane with enough wing area and you wanted scale flight. At the same time a ten pound aerobat with the same engine would be a big disappointment. Until you learn to estimate the engine matches for yourself just go by manufacturer’s recommendations, or suggestions from others.
Nitrodan73:
Many engines will run nicer at low rpm with the valve gaps set wide, but the Saitos generally don’t with the stock carbs. When the gaps get wide the valve timing is affected, and with the shorter duration the airflow through the carb is reduced. With the reduced airflow the fuel draw is reduced along with the efficiency of fuel atomization, and the idle goes to pot. I’m not talking about letting the gaps get out to 0.1 mm (0.004”), they still run fine there, even though the wear starts increasing on the tappets compared to 0.04 mm gap.
And do remember, the high speed needle can not be adjusted with any success unless you have4 the engine at full throttle.
iflywhenican:
There are very few reasons for a push rod to come out of its socket. We can discount wear on a new engine, the others are improper assembly which includes the adjustment, and valve float.
On the mid block engines the push rods can be installed upside down, but the big block (the 2.20 is a big block) can have them either end up. This just about leaves valve float.
Normally, valve float means over speed of the engine, but there are a couple other causes as well.
If the valve stems are too tightly fitted in the guides they will be stiff, and the springs wont close them as fast as needed. I doubt this is the problem, Saito’s quality control is better than that even though it is a possibility. Most probable, in my opinion, is the preservative oil has gotten stiff in the guides, giving the same symptom.
If it is a tight fit, then you will need to keep the rpm down low until they wear in a bit. If it’s the oil, soak the valve stems with acetone or a similar solvent to loosen the oil.
One other possibility that just came to mind – the rockers could be binding in the pedestals or on the pivot pins. Check it all, I think yu will find something just binding.
If you can’t correct it Horizon will take care of it, they really do have good warranty service.
Ray44:
Agreement with W8YE. And Saito. The choke isn’t needed even for cold start, Saito no longer puts them on the engines. Open throttle, finger closing the exhaust, spin the engine.
Just as a suggestion, try a 12x4 prop on your FA-45, see if the idle doesn’t improve.
Rlm:
Generally speaking, a one inch increase in either prop diameter or pitch is an equivalent increase in engine load. But there is no hard and fast rule, usually experimentation is the only way to know. Rpm is a factor also, At higher rpm the pitch has more effect than the diameter. But you also reach a point where the prop is at full stall, any pitch increase beyond that point has no effect at all. Not really a black art, but the math is far beyond our scope. The airfoil section of the prop makes a difference as well. Easier just to try different props.
Joe:
Most people running the FA-180 are still using the common “Mid” size fuel hose and tubing. It wont hurt to use the larger size, but it shouldn’t be needed.
JP and Jim:
If the intake stack isn’t sealed against the body of the carb it becomes nothing more or less than a decoration. So yes, if there is no seal there you’ll have to add it.
All:
New members:
360 afterburn
383 horseman
384 Nitrodan73
385 Jon Easley
386 iflywhenican
387 Hangar Pilot
Welcome all.
Bill
Just a quick side note - I have been staying busy with other affairs lately, so some of my responses here have been a bit delayed. Apologies. Add to that my experience as, among other things, an instructor makes me want to give as full an explanation as I can. So. Composing a reply with the explanation along with checking to be sure the answer is as correct as I can make it just takes longer than a simple yes or no, or a one or two word answer.
A part of my intention here is indeed as a schoolteacher, trying to make everyone able to do all their own maintenance and trouble shooting. Many more of you are responding to questions now than when this thread started, guess the learning is coming from somewhere whether it’s me or not.
To business.
TC:
I did not miss your question about the weight and load for each size engine, it’s just a question that has no answer. An FA-65 would do a very nice job of pulling a ten pound airplane, if it was a “Cub” type plane with enough wing area and you wanted scale flight. At the same time a ten pound aerobat with the same engine would be a big disappointment. Until you learn to estimate the engine matches for yourself just go by manufacturer’s recommendations, or suggestions from others.
Nitrodan73:
Many engines will run nicer at low rpm with the valve gaps set wide, but the Saitos generally don’t with the stock carbs. When the gaps get wide the valve timing is affected, and with the shorter duration the airflow through the carb is reduced. With the reduced airflow the fuel draw is reduced along with the efficiency of fuel atomization, and the idle goes to pot. I’m not talking about letting the gaps get out to 0.1 mm (0.004”), they still run fine there, even though the wear starts increasing on the tappets compared to 0.04 mm gap.
And do remember, the high speed needle can not be adjusted with any success unless you have4 the engine at full throttle.
iflywhenican:
There are very few reasons for a push rod to come out of its socket. We can discount wear on a new engine, the others are improper assembly which includes the adjustment, and valve float.
On the mid block engines the push rods can be installed upside down, but the big block (the 2.20 is a big block) can have them either end up. This just about leaves valve float.
Normally, valve float means over speed of the engine, but there are a couple other causes as well.
If the valve stems are too tightly fitted in the guides they will be stiff, and the springs wont close them as fast as needed. I doubt this is the problem, Saito’s quality control is better than that even though it is a possibility. Most probable, in my opinion, is the preservative oil has gotten stiff in the guides, giving the same symptom.
If it is a tight fit, then you will need to keep the rpm down low until they wear in a bit. If it’s the oil, soak the valve stems with acetone or a similar solvent to loosen the oil.
One other possibility that just came to mind – the rockers could be binding in the pedestals or on the pivot pins. Check it all, I think yu will find something just binding.
If you can’t correct it Horizon will take care of it, they really do have good warranty service.
Ray44:
Agreement with W8YE. And Saito. The choke isn’t needed even for cold start, Saito no longer puts them on the engines. Open throttle, finger closing the exhaust, spin the engine.
Just as a suggestion, try a 12x4 prop on your FA-45, see if the idle doesn’t improve.
Rlm:
Generally speaking, a one inch increase in either prop diameter or pitch is an equivalent increase in engine load. But there is no hard and fast rule, usually experimentation is the only way to know. Rpm is a factor also, At higher rpm the pitch has more effect than the diameter. But you also reach a point where the prop is at full stall, any pitch increase beyond that point has no effect at all. Not really a black art, but the math is far beyond our scope. The airfoil section of the prop makes a difference as well. Easier just to try different props.
Joe:
Most people running the FA-180 are still using the common “Mid” size fuel hose and tubing. It wont hurt to use the larger size, but it shouldn’t be needed.
JP and Jim:
If the intake stack isn’t sealed against the body of the carb it becomes nothing more or less than a decoration. So yes, if there is no seal there you’ll have to add it.
All:
New members:
360 afterburn
383 horseman
384 Nitrodan73
385 Jon Easley
386 iflywhenican
387 Hangar Pilot
Welcome all.
Bill
09-29-2006, 01:52 AM
#4748
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Thanks Bill.
I sorta figured that would be your answer
Got a three day weekend of flying ahead of me. Yiiippppeeeee!!!!!!
Cheers
TC
I sorta figured that would be your answer
Got a three day weekend of flying ahead of me. Yiiippppeeeee!!!!!!
Cheers
TC
09-29-2006, 03:42 AM
#4749
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
SAITO 90T. This is my first twin. Installed in a GP ARF, 80" Cub. Ready to fire it up first time. Any suggestions appreciated. Light both plugs on start up, or will the other half come on line after running. Start this engine wet? With prime line to carb, always use it? Reliable idle always, especially landing? Engine cowled in, any problems with heat?
I am also looking for laminated 13" props.
Thanks,
Vince
Hobe Sound, FL [email protected]
I am also looking for laminated 13" props.
Thanks,
Vince
Hobe Sound, FL [email protected]