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Old 09-23-2020, 04:36 AM
  #48126  
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I do Saitos exactly that way, 4,000 rpm at a rich setting for 10 minutes then lean just until the glow power is not needed. Approximately 35, save for one, perfect Saitos.
Old 09-23-2020, 05:18 AM
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I have two different manuals, one that came with the engine and one I found online specific to the 120R3, and the online one said 3 turns, while the one it came with said 5 turns. I ordered the OBG from Crain that works with Life, so when I get it I can try again with hot plugs and it should fire right up. Until then I have to flush it with some oil to get what ever raw fuel is still in it out. I also found a 4000 mah Glacier LiFe pack that weighs a little less than a pair of 2100mah packs. BTW those starters get pretty warm after spinning the engine for minutes on end. I pulled the battery down to storage voltage. Hoping when I do finally get it running and broke in it starts as easy as the ones on video, a casual flip and purrr.
Old 09-23-2020, 05:29 AM
  #48128  
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When breaking in a new, never run Saito, I run them at 1,000 rpm increments for 10 minutes at each 1,000 rpm increase. The throttle lever is set very stiff so as to not move.
During the first 10 minutes at 4,000, rich, the speed seldom changes over that 10 minute period.
During the second 10 minute period at 5,000 rpm, (HS set to just not need the glow power) the rpm almost always increases to 5,500 to 5,700 rpm.
During the third 10 minute period at 6,000 the rpm might increase by 100 or 150 rpm.
During the fourth 10 minute at 7,000, generally no increase.
Top the tank off and when restarted, set LS needle to decent idle, from then on I run at various rpm between 8,000 and full throttle, after 10 minutes of that, go for peak and finish LS needle. When this is done very little will change from then on.

Of course there are other recipes. I came up with mine because the Saito instructions are so vague after the first 10 minutes.

Last edited by Hobbsy; 09-23-2020 at 05:33 AM.
Old 09-23-2020, 05:34 AM
  #48129  
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Originally Posted by acdii
I have two different manuals, one that came with the engine and one I found online specific to the 120R3, and the online one said 3 turns, while the one it came with said 5 turns. I ordered the OBG from Crain that works with Life, so when I get it I can try again with hot plugs and it should fire right up. Until then I have to flush it with some oil to get what ever raw fuel is still in it out. I also found a 4000 mah Glacier LiFe pack that weighs a little less than a pair of 2100mah packs. BTW those starters get pretty warm after spinning the engine for minutes on end. I pulled the battery down to storage voltage. Hoping when I do finally get it running and broke in it starts as easy as the ones on video, a casual flip and purrr.
Mike if you decide to get a Keleo ring, they are a real pain to install but doable.
Old 09-23-2020, 05:39 AM
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A bit of a knack but they do go on
Old 09-23-2020, 05:50 AM
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I need to pay off this engine first before I spend another $150+ on the exhaust ring. CHI has one. It will be a while before I would need it anyway, I still have a lot of work left on the Corsair, the cowl is still virgin.
Old 09-23-2020, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Hobbsy
When breaking in a new, never run Saito, I run them at 1,000 rpm increments for 10 minutes at each 1,000 rpm increase. The throttle lever is set very stiff so as to not move.
During the first 10 minutes at 4,000, rich, the speed seldom changes over that 10 minute period.
During the second 10 minute period at 5,000 rpm, (HS set to just not need the glow power) the rpm almost always increases to 5,500 to 5,700 rpm.
During the third 10 minute period at 6,000 the rpm might increase by 100 or 150 rpm.
During the fourth 10 minute at 7,000, generally no increase.
Top the tank off and when restarted, set LS needle to decent idle, from then on I run at various rpm between 8,000 and full throttle, after 10 minutes of that, go for peak and finish LS needle. When this is done very little will change from then on.

Of course there are other recipes. I came up with mine because the Saito instructions are so vague after the first 10 minutes.
I adopted the same break in procedure from someone, can't remember who. I also run the engine for 10 minutes at each each rpm, 4k, 5k, 6k and 7k.

More specifically:

Flood the case with ATF or the ARO of your choice. Drain out excess. Check valve lash. Oil rockers.
I use a prop that I know would over rev the engine for break in purposes but don't run the engine past 7000 rpm with it.

4000 for 10 minutes as rich as it will run with glow power on.
Check valve lash. Oil rockers.
*****No glow power from here on*****
5000 for 10 minutes as rich as it will run.
Check valve lash. Oil rockers.
6000 for 10 minutes leaned so there's a fairly frequent miss from being too rich.
Check valve lash. Oil rockers.
7000 for 10 minutes leaned more so there's an occasional miss from being slightly too rich.
Check valve lash. Oil rockers.
Mount intended prop for flying, restart engine with a full tank, adjust hsn for 300 rpm rich of peak, adjust lsn for good idle and go fly.
Check valve lash.

As you can tell, during break in I check the valve lash frequently. I allow it to open up to as much as .004", no more, and then readjust back down to .0015"-.002". I also oil the rockers if breaking in the engine in the upright position.

Edited with prop info and oiling.

Last edited by Glowgeek; 09-23-2020 at 01:44 PM.
Old 09-23-2020, 03:12 PM
  #48133  
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I don't bother checking the valve lash until finished, it simply does not change much during the break in. And set the LS needle with the HS at full peak. Otherwise we do it the same. I use the OS feeler gauge, whatever it is. I pump a single pump stroke of Corrosion X into the vent before the first start up. I tried a shot of Lithium grease in the vent but it takes it so long to come back out.
Old 09-23-2020, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Hobbsy
I don't bother checking the valve lash until finished, it simply does not change much during the break in. And set the LS needle with the HS at full peak. Otherwise we do it the same. I use the OS feeler gauge, whatever it is. I pump a single pump stroke of Corrosion X into the vent before the first start up. I tried a shot of Lithium grease in the vent but it takes it so long to come back out.
I would say it usually doesn't change much. I had an FG21 open up the lash .004" on the first and second 10 minute break in runs (.008" total) .I think that pushrod missed the hardening process. The top end never polished up, just stayed a dull grey. Just the thought of all that abraided metal hanging out in the pushrod tube and rocker cover still makes me cringe. I usually take out .002-.003" excess lash after the first 10 minute run, .001"-.002" on the second run and almost nothing on the third run. The wear needs to slow with each run or something is wrong. That's why I check after each 10 min run.
Old 09-23-2020, 06:42 PM
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Default The Go / No-Go inspection method.

I have never put a valve cover in place with ..004" lash. The .002 feeler stock is the "go" gauge. The .004 is the "no go" limit.
Old 09-23-2020, 07:17 PM
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Wish me luck guys, tomorrow is the heart cath!
Old 09-23-2020, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Jesse Open
I have never put a valve cover in place with ..004" lash. The .002 feeler stock is the "go" gauge. The .004 is the "no go" limit.

Gary cheapest set of feeler gauges i own for saito valve clearances, if you tear one it's too tight.

ps i used to use cigarette papers to check full and free clearance when glass bedding to free float varmint rifle barrels

Last edited by Monty Python; 09-23-2020 at 10:10 PM.
Old 09-23-2020, 10:16 PM
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Bruce/mike my fa200r3 with keleo exhaust ring, so easy dummies can do it.

Howdy dave don't know about running in a really rich saito single mounted to the airframe instead of the test bench, shakes that airframe like a dog shakes a cat.
Old 09-24-2020, 02:43 AM
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I have always broken them in on a test stand, is that 200 R-3 on a plane now, thanks, Dave
I may have taken up the test stand habit because my first engine was a McCoy 36 in 1956 at age 14, I had no plane for it until about a year later. I still have that engine plus a 35, OK Cub .024. pee Wee .020, and a Spitfire .049.
Old 09-24-2020, 03:06 AM
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My test stand is a PSP mounted on 3 .5" oak boards laminated with 3 hour epoxy mixed 50/50 with 99% pure alcohol. The boards are also coated with the same mixture, no fuel, gas, Davis Diesel or glow fuel has ever effected the coating. I can invert it to set engines up to run inverted but seldom do it. The PSP is mounted on a B&B Vibra-Loc system.

Pete, I'd like to share a Seiko 22/50 story if you could send me your E-mail by PM, thanks.


The high compression 80 inverted.

Last edited by Hobbsy; 09-24-2020 at 03:10 AM. Reason: Add content
Old 09-24-2020, 03:13 AM
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Sweeeet

I've thought many times of shooting my test stand, but the old saw horsey with the mended leg keeps galloping along.
Old 09-24-2020, 03:24 AM
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I have two 50 pound cement blocks built into that one, so far nothing has moved it. The most powerful engine on it so far has been the ST 4500, a Byron's Mustang/Fuji 50 and a Zenoah g-45.
Old 09-24-2020, 04:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Monty Python

Gary cheapest set of feeler gauges i own for saito valve clearances, if you tear one it's too tight.

ps i used to use cigarette papers to check full and free clearance when glass bedding to free float varmint rifle barrels

Pete, I use these to check the fit of door weather stripping on car doors and trunk opening seals. Fully recyclable .

Dave,
100 pounds of cement? You must be getting some awesome power out of those Virginia Saitos!
My whole setup weighs about 30 pounds with a full 14 ounce tank of fuel.


Like slipping into a three fingered glove.



Old 09-24-2020, 04:53 AM
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Gary, is that an OS FT120 G1 in the background? If so, I need some info on it.
Old 09-24-2020, 05:30 AM
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I have a Stanley Workmate to clamp the test stand to and an 80 pound battery box to keep it from moving. Largest I ran so far is the FG-30. It puts the engine at just the right height.
Old 09-24-2020, 05:43 AM
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What you guys think about the test stand from the UK on eeeee bay? Comes with an engine stand, tank and tank stand. Pretty cheap too.
Old 09-24-2020, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyerInOKC
Wish me luck guys, tomorrow is the heart cath!
Mike, thinking about you, if you can, how did the procedure go, Thanks and well wishes.
Old 09-24-2020, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Hobbsy
Mike, thinking about you, if you can, how did the procedure go, Thanks and well wishes.
thanks Dave it went great!! Oh wait wrong mike should read all the post.
yeah. Mike how did everything go
Old 09-24-2020, 02:44 PM
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Mike is having his heart cath tomorrow me thinks.

Best wishes Mike-O. And prayers of course!
Old 09-24-2020, 05:19 PM
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OK I had the right side heart cath and passed! The doctors are still scratching their heads trying to figure out what is causing my chest pains and fatigue and caused the right side of my heart to enlarge.

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