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Old 09-29-2020, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Hobbsy
Hopefully properly torqued too. You know I'll have to try a Graupner 10 x 5 like on the Saito 30's. Prop Size 8x5; 8x6; 9x5; 10x4

Dave, when I got into RC boats in the early 90s all the mags praised the OPS engines, I had 2 K&B .45 outboards. I bought an OPS 45 inboard, it was fast for a run. real fast, for that one short run. the setscrew for the Disk was not torqued down at all. I was lucky, all I need to buy was a new Disk and setscrew.

Jim
Old 09-29-2020, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by acdii
Well, back from our mini weekend vacation in our new trailer, I did good buying this one, works out almost perfectly. One more TV for our bedroom and it will be perfect. The parts I ordered last week came in while we were gone, and aside from a bit of wiring, I should be ready to try to fire the 120R3 up again.


Doesn't take much room at all, and works with a light weight Life battery. Will help with balancing the plane since I can locate the battery where ever it is needed. The module itself is only .6 of an ounce.
A beautiful thing.
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Old 09-29-2020, 01:31 PM
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"Green, green, totally green"

If everything goes right I'll have a CMPro Hellcat and a Saito 325R5 to mount on it. The job I bid has to go through though. Wish me luck!

Last edited by Glowgeek; 09-29-2020 at 01:55 PM.
Old 09-29-2020, 02:13 PM
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Hey Mike from OK the package arrived, I can really use this, I think I will swap out the RX in the 4*60 so I can set up flaperons since it has separate aileron outputs. If I get it set just right it should land itself. Thanks again.
Old 09-29-2020, 02:50 PM
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Good luck Lonnie .


I know it isn't a Saito, but ...

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...T-Nitro-Engine
Old 09-29-2020, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by acdii
Hey Mike from OK the package arrived, I can really use this, I think I will swap out the RX in the 4*60 so I can set up flaperons since it has separate aileron outputs. If I get it set just right it should land itself. Thanks again.
The 4* planes work well when using flaperons to achieve tight loops, square corners and other related aerobatics. Little chance of tip stalling with that hershey bar wing.

Other wing designs, some warbirds and aerobats for instance, can be very problematic when flaperons are brought into the landing sequence. Many of those wing designs stall at the wing root first and the stall works it's way out towards the wing tip when slowing for landing. Using flaperons increases the angle of attack at the wing tip which makes the tips more prone to stalling which in turn renders the ailerons ineffective just at the wrong moment. Once the wing tip stalls the entire wing is stalled, almost always one wing before the other , the plane rolls over violently and well.......
Old 09-29-2020, 03:04 PM
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My 120 is setup with flaperons. Makes for very interesting high AOA maneuvers. Only reason I did it was to slow that beast down to land it. The DLE 20 is not reliable enough runs different every time I start it so I gave up flying it and it just hangs in my trailer collecting dust. I should weigh the DLE and compare it to the FG-30. Would be interesting to see how it flies with the 30 on it's nose. Now to go and make a battery harness for the OBG and wire up the GP so I can get this engine running.
Old 09-29-2020, 03:27 PM
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My last two Four Star 60s were set up with spoilerons. They allowed for steep landing approaches into some hefty headwinds while still using a high throttle setting.

Of course with modern radios you can quickly choose flaperons on the same plane.
Old 09-29-2020, 04:58 PM
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Well, got it running. Fired right up now that the GP have juice to them. I can't get it to run below 4K though with 2 turns out on the HSN. It will rev up to 8K in a heart beat, but if you close the throttle too quickly it stalls out. I want it to run @ 4K for the first tank, but the lowest it will stay running is 4800. The left bottom while facing it runs hotter than the others too. I am using SIG 4 Stroke 15% with 16% castor/synth blend. Did a valve adjustment too, they were a little loose, but mainly wanted to check oil after a 30 minute run, and good oil on all 3. Made the mistake of having the prop facing away from the garage, and filled the 4 car garage with smoke in the process. Turned it facing the garage after 5 minutes running or it would get into the house.

Any thoughts on where I should set the needles to get it to idle below 4K? I would at least like to have it idle at 2500 if possible for now until it is fully broken in. The 14 x 6 APC blew the tach off the table and moves the starter at 4500 RPM, does a pretty good job. Also what temp should I look for below the GP on the cylinders? Two were ~115* the left bottom 153*. Pretty sure it will fire off with a flip once the carb is set right, the starter runs about a second before it fires off.
Old 09-29-2020, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by acdii
Well, got it running. Fired right up now that the GP have juice to them. I can't get it to run below 4K though with 2 turns out on the HSN. It will rev up to 8K in a heart beat, but if you close the throttle too quickly it stalls out. I want it to run @ 4K for the first tank, but the lowest it will stay running is 4800. The left bottom while facing it runs hotter than the others too. I am using SIG 4 Stroke 15% with 16% castor/synth blend. Did a valve adjustment too, they were a little loose, but mainly wanted to check oil after a 30 minute run, and good oil on all 3. Made the mistake of having the prop facing away from the garage, and filled the 4 car garage with smoke in the process. Turned it facing the garage after 5 minutes running or it would get into the house.

Any thoughts on where I should set the needles to get it to idle below 4K? I would at least like to have it idle at 2500 if possible for now until it is fully broken in. The 14 x 6 APC blew the tach off the table and moves the starter at 4500 RPM, does a pretty good job. Also what temp should I look for below the GP on the cylinders? Two were ~115* the left bottom 153*. Pretty sure it will fire off with a flip once the carb is set right, the starter runs about a second before it fires off.
Mike, 115f is ice cold, those two cylinders are running too rich to allow 4000 rpm. Leave the glow system on, the hsn 2 turns out and adjust the lsn until it's still so rich that it will barely stay running at 4000 for 10 minutes. That first 10 minutes is to break in the rods, cam etc. Don't worry about differences in compression or temp differences between cylinders until later.

From a previous post:
"I adopted the same break in procedure from someone, can't remember who. I also run the engine for 10 minutes at each each rpm, 4k, 5k, 6k and 7k.

More specifically:

Flood the case with ATF or the ARO of your choice. Drain out excess. Check valve lash. Oil rockers.
I use a prop that I know would over rev the engine for break in purposes but don't run the engine past 7000 rpm with it.

4000 for 10 minutes as rich as it will run with glow power on.
Check valve lash. Oil rockers.
*****No glow power from here on*****
5000 for 10 minutes as rich as it will run.
Check valve lash. Oil rockers.
6000 for 10 minutes leaned so there's a fairly frequent miss from being too rich.
Check valve lash. Oil rockers.
7000 for 10 minutes leaned more so there's an occasional miss from being slightly too rich.
Check valve lash. Oil rockers.
Mount intended prop for flying, restart engine with a full tank, adjust hsn for 300 rpm rich of peak, adjust lsn for good idle and go fly.
Check valve lash.

As you can tell, during break in I check the valve lash frequently. I allow it to open up to as much as .004", no more, and then readjust back down to .0015"-.002". I also oil the rockers if breaking in the engine in the upright position."

Last edited by Glowgeek; 09-30-2020 at 03:12 AM.
Old 09-29-2020, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by acdii
Hey Mike from OK the package arrived, I can really use this, I think I will swap out the RX in the 4*60 so I can set up flaperons since it has separate aileron outputs. If I get it set just right it should land itself. Thanks again.
I'm glad it made it one piece and you can use it! I look forward to see how it works out for you.

Mike
Old 09-29-2020, 07:25 PM
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The run the engine for 10 minutes at each each rpm, 4k, 5k, 6k and 7k sounds like the procedure Super Tigre specified for their 2 cycle ringed engines and it works too.

The Hirtenberger HP21VT is a nice looking engine but when I buy another engine I think I'll go with a Saito in the 100 to 120ish size. Didn't want to upset Pete by typing a "5" on the end. You know how sensitive he his.

Last edited by FlyerInOKC; 09-29-2020 at 07:30 PM.
Old 09-29-2020, 08:54 PM
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How about a 5 in the middle?
Old 09-29-2020, 08:55 PM
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hey Dave, did you see this ?

Jim

HP VT-21
Old 09-29-2020, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Glowgeek
"Green, green, totally green"

If everything goes right I'll have a CMPro Hellcat and a Saito 325R5 to mount on it. The job I bid has to go through though. Wish me luck!
Then wishing you luck on the bid, cmpro make some outstanding models like my midget mustang cheers
Old 09-29-2020, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyerInOKC
The run the engine for 10 minutes at each each rpm, 4k, 5k, 6k and 7k sounds like the procedure Super Tigre specified for their 2 cycle ringed engines and it works too.

The Hirtenberger HP21VT is a nice looking engine but when I buy another engine I think I'll go with a Saito in the 100 to 120ish size. Didn't want to upset Pete by typing a "5" on the end. You know how sensitive he his.
Angry yes, i hate dem fa125's but your statement does not rule out buying an fa115...sensitive? hell no, i'd need an IQ higher than your average two stroke heli pilot to feel that. When you spend money on a brand new engine like the fa120r3 it's normal to get a bit anxious and over think it running them in, at least i do. Good advice from lonnie re tuning. I never bother with valve lash until it's run in and ignore, in fact put your temp gauge away, having a single carb feeding multiple cylinders you are always going to have to compromise on mixture, just tune it like you would any saito single. Top rpm is good you won't go anywhere near seizing it unless it's an fa125 with one of those gawd awful graupner props on it

ps if it drops a lower cylinder during the initial run in don't assume it's bad plug, my fa200r3 had a pushrod slip off a rocker cup before it was properly seated, yes there is room inside the rocker cover for this to happen with no damage. Personally i was so relieved i had a beer or 15.

Old 09-30-2020, 02:47 AM
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After the first 10 minutes at 4,000 at 1/4 throttle, you can lean both needles enough to get your lower rpm and do the rest of the break in without the glow power. The valve lash can wait until the 50 minute break in is done if set before start up. Also, lose the temperature gauge.

Yes Jim, I saw that and there is a car engine still available. I never saw a company work so hard at encouraging to buy elsewhere.
Old 09-30-2020, 03:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Monty Python
Angry yes, i hate dem fa125's but your statement does not rule out buying an fa115...sensitive? hell no, i'd need an IQ higher than your average two stroke heli pilot to feel that. When you spend money on a brand new engine like the fa120r3 it's normal to get a bit anxious and over think it running them in, at least i do. Good advice from lonnie re tuning. I never bother with valve lash until it's run in and ignore, in fact put your temp gauge away, having a single carb feeding multiple cylinders you are always going to have to compromise on mixture, just tune it like you would any saito single. Top rpm is good you won't go anywhere near seizing it unless it's an fa125 with one of those gawd awful graupner props on it

ps if it drops a lower cylinder during the initial run in don't assume it's bad plug, my fa200r3 had a pushrod slip off a rocker cup before it was properly seated, yes there is room inside the rocker cover for this to happen with no damage. Personally i was so relieved i had a beer or 15.
Hmmm, interesting. Don't you think?

Originally Posted by Hobbsy
After the first 10 minutes at 4,000 at 1/4 throttle, you can lean both needles enough to get your lower rpm and do the rest of the break in without the glow power. The valve lash can wait until the 50 minute break in is done if set before start up. Also, lose the temperature gauge.

Yes Jim, I saw that and there is a car engine still available. I never saw a company work so hard at encouraging to buy elsewhere.
Sure, if your lucky.

If Saito were to ship 1 bad pushrod in a million engines I would be the recipient of that engine. In fact, I was. They're your engines, do what you want to during break in but I find it odd that you both would find a simple exercise in preventative maintenance worthy of objection.
Old 09-30-2020, 03:56 AM
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There is quite a difference between "objecting" and saying there is no need. I actually received a 120 triple that had a pushrod out of the rocker socket, I showed pictures of it. It ran great but flattened the sharp end of the pushrod. A new pushrod fixed it right up. I had set the lash before running and missed that little detail.
Old 09-30-2020, 04:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Hobbsy
There is quite a difference between "objecting" and saying there is no need. I actually received a 120 triple that had a pushrod out of the rocker socket, I showed pictures of it. It ran great but flattened the sharp end of the pushrod. A new pushrod fixed it right up. I had set the lash before running and missed that little detail.
That begs the question, "How do you know if there's no need if you're not checking lash during break in?"
Better to see potential problems occuring sooner than later I say. No need to encourage wear either.







Last edited by Glowgeek; 09-30-2020 at 04:54 AM.
Old 09-30-2020, 05:06 AM
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Lonnie,

We are on the same page here. That .004" measure is a MAX value, the .002 a minimum. Since the clearance tends to grow with normal operation, adjusting to the lesser value makes good sense. During break in I prefer to insure that the clearance is not approaching the or exceeding the upper limit. Just good operating practice. As I said a few days ago, I have never set a Saito rocker cover over a rocker that was adjusted to .004"
That .002" clearance provides room for a healthy oil film, more clearance is not "better".

Last edited by Jesse Open; 09-30-2020 at 05:12 AM.
Old 09-30-2020, 05:27 AM
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Well, my question is regarding not being able to run it at 4K, it quits when throttled down that low. The lowest it will stay running is ~5000. The temp gauge is only used to verify all cylinders are firing, nothing more. I did check all the valves last night, and snugged up a few that were over .004 and everything has a nice sheen of oil on them.

Here is a video of it running, listen to it modulate the speed.


Last edited by acdii; 09-30-2020 at 05:29 AM. Reason: Wrong link
Old 09-30-2020, 05:33 AM
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Wonderful stuff.
Old 09-30-2020, 05:34 AM
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I am envious!
Old 09-30-2020, 05:38 AM
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It's hard to see the smoke in the vid so I can't draw any conclusions as to lean or rich condition. Er on the side of caution, always assume it's running too lean and try richening the lsn first. The throttle position is irrelevant during the 4000 and 5000 rpm break in stages, open it as much as necessary to keep the engine at 4000 with glow on.

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