Welcome to Club SAITO !
07-30-2021, 03:01 PM
Yes, I DO feel lucky and Horizon was under NO obligation to make good on this second-hand purchase.
On the other hand, it's pretty clear to me the technician who examined the engine could see that it had less than a minute of run time, and what I described is exactly what happened.
Interesting to note that in the FG-20 instructions, Saito emphasizes their 'rod bottom end to crankpin FIT' as being integral to engine longevity..... NO KIDDING
But in this case, whoever fit the rod to the crank, did something very wrong...
I am hopeful the FG-21 comes with an ignition that accepts 2S Lipos. The FG-20 did not.
On the other hand, it's pretty clear to me the technician who examined the engine could see that it had less than a minute of run time, and what I described is exactly what happened.
Interesting to note that in the FG-20 instructions, Saito emphasizes their 'rod bottom end to crankpin FIT' as being integral to engine longevity..... NO KIDDING
But in this case, whoever fit the rod to the crank, did something very wrong...
I am hopeful the FG-21 comes with an ignition that accepts 2S Lipos. The FG-20 did not.
07-30-2021, 03:12 PM
Richard, I've run my FG21's on 20:1 and on 15:1 gas/oil mix, not more than 100 rpm difference in peak rpm. I run 15:1 exclusively now for added protection. Aviation fuel (100LL) or Non Ethanolated gas and Stihl Ultra HP oil. Even though I use Amzoil products in my vehicles, was an Amzoil dealer for a few years, I cannot recommend Amzoil 2 stroke oil. Just way too much carbon buildup for my taste.
07-30-2021, 03:41 PM
Richard, I've run my FG21's on 20:1 and on 15:1 gas/oil mix, not more than 100 rpm difference in peak rpm. I run 15:1 exclusively now for added protection. Aviation fuel (100LL) or Non Ethanolated gas and Stihl Ultra HP oil. Even though I use Amzoil products in my vehicles, was an Amzoil dealer for a few years, I cannot recommend Amzoil 2 stroke oil. Just way too much carbon buildup for my taste.
The ONLY reason I use Amsoil Dominator in my four stroke GAS RC engines is because when I purchase my new Moki 180 radial, Vogelsang said that was the ONLY oil they recommended.
He said that oils like RED LINE were great for two strokes, but not for four strokes where you need lots of unburned oil making its way past the rings and valves and lubricating all those moving parts.
I used to use Red Line in everything.
When I got the Moki I switched to Amsoil Dominator for all my gassers, 2 or 4 stroke, running it at 40:1.
In my Saitos, I run it 20:1.
So far, so good..
07-30-2021, 04:02 PM
Saito gassers (sans the FG20) run great the way they come, I wouldn't convert one to methanol even with cdi. I'd be more likely to convert an FA to gas, in the process of doing so now to my FA180.
07-30-2021, 06:01 PM
My Feedback: (149)
Hi Glowgeek, Am considering 100LL - have heard some positives, odorless and storage longevity - also just got new riding mower, and was wondering if you might share any negatives ( IF any ). Also use Ultra HP, with a touch of Klotz castor .
Thanks,
Mike
#723
Thanks,
Mike
#723
07-30-2021, 06:27 PM
My Feedback: (1)
Well, I was going by memory, so just to be sure, since we are being held to avery high standard,
I looked it up in the official instructions.
The span is not 68 or 69, it is considerably less, 66 inches is more like it.
"The plane came out quite heavy for the 68 or so inch wing."
Of course there was also the far more commonly seen 40 size Dragonlady, it had an even smaller wing. I wont bother to guess how much smaller. (52")
Major error, good catch. Certainly 66" is not close to 68"
The larger Dragon Lady has a 66” wingspan, requires a .60 to .90 2 stroke or .80 to 1.2 4 stroke and requires 4 channels to operate.
Gary
I looked it up in the official instructions.
The span is not 68 or 69, it is considerably less, 66 inches is more like it.
"The plane came out quite heavy for the 68 or so inch wing."
Of course there was also the far more commonly seen 40 size Dragonlady, it had an even smaller wing. I wont bother to guess how much smaller. (52")
Major error, good catch. Certainly 66" is not close to 68"
The larger Dragon Lady has a 66” wingspan, requires a .60 to .90 2 stroke or .80 to 1.2 4 stroke and requires 4 channels to operate.
Gary
Jim
07-30-2021, 11:19 PM
But there is lot more to flying than lifting off "quickly". Slow flying ability was far better with the 125 and lift off was never an issue. Yes, waaaay too heavy for my purposes. I enjoy the 125 version a lot more, having actually experieced owning amd flying both versions. LOL.
By all means get a 130 twin brick on yours, I will leave the 125 single on mine.
Last edited by Jesse Open; 07-30-2021 at 11:22 PM.
07-31-2021, 02:48 AM
I get my 100LL very cheap from a friend that's in the aviation biz, otherwise I would run non-ethanolated pump gas.
07-31-2021, 04:09 AM
I recently purchased a Saito FG-20 online. It was reportedly N.I.B. and when I received it, I concurred, it had not been previously run.
I mixed up a gallon of 20:1 using Amsoil Dominator and 95 octane methanol-free gas. 16x6 prop.
After several short burps of HAND starting the engine and having it burn out the prime, it finally kept running.
Throttle was set to approx. 3000 rpm.
Although I wasn't timing it, probably 20 seconds of running, and the engine STOPPED abruptly.
Attempting to restart by hand, the engine would NOT TURN OVER a complete revolution. It was binding and also making a troublesome metal on metal sound
Pulling the back plate revealed the bottom end of the rod was "egg shaped." It had been pounded out by the crankpin and also had contacted the insides of the crankcase.
I sent the engine in to Horizon for assessment and repairs. While I know Saito offers a 3-year warranty, I was well-aware this applies ONLY to the original purchaser.
I was also painfully aware the engine was older than 3 years and now OUT of production.
I accompanied the engine with a complete description of what happened, also mentioning that I have NEVER encountered such a problem with ANY engine (and I have run HUNDREDS over 50 years) and that my Saito glow and gas engines had been particularly wonderful performers. My most recent Saito gas engines (purchased new from Horizon) have been a 61cc twin and 90cc radial, BOTH superb running engines.
To my shock and amazement, Horizon chose to WARRANTY replace my engine with a new FG-21!
They did say this was a "one time thing"... but that's OK.
Now THAT is GREAT customer service
I mixed up a gallon of 20:1 using Amsoil Dominator and 95 octane methanol-free gas. 16x6 prop.
After several short burps of HAND starting the engine and having it burn out the prime, it finally kept running.
Throttle was set to approx. 3000 rpm.
Although I wasn't timing it, probably 20 seconds of running, and the engine STOPPED abruptly.
Attempting to restart by hand, the engine would NOT TURN OVER a complete revolution. It was binding and also making a troublesome metal on metal sound
Pulling the back plate revealed the bottom end of the rod was "egg shaped." It had been pounded out by the crankpin and also had contacted the insides of the crankcase.
I sent the engine in to Horizon for assessment and repairs. While I know Saito offers a 3-year warranty, I was well-aware this applies ONLY to the original purchaser.
I was also painfully aware the engine was older than 3 years and now OUT of production.
I accompanied the engine with a complete description of what happened, also mentioning that I have NEVER encountered such a problem with ANY engine (and I have run HUNDREDS over 50 years) and that my Saito glow and gas engines had been particularly wonderful performers. My most recent Saito gas engines (purchased new from Horizon) have been a 61cc twin and 90cc radial, BOTH superb running engines.
To my shock and amazement, Horizon chose to WARRANTY replace my engine with a new FG-21!
They did say this was a "one time thing"... but that's OK.
Now THAT is GREAT customer service
07-31-2021, 04:16 AM
I am sure we could hijak this blog with oil discussions...
The ONLY reason I use Amsoil Dominator in my four stroke GAS RC engines is because when I purchase my new Moki 180 radial, Vogelsang said that was the ONLY oil they recommended.
He said that oils like RED LINE were great for two strokes, but not for four strokes where you need lots of unburned oil making its way past the rings and valves and lubricating all those moving parts.
I used to use Red Line in everything.
When I got the Moki I switched to Amsoil Dominator for all my gassers, 2 or 4 stroke, running it at 40:1.
In my Saitos, I run it 20:1.
So far, so good..
The ONLY reason I use Amsoil Dominator in my four stroke GAS RC engines is because when I purchase my new Moki 180 radial, Vogelsang said that was the ONLY oil they recommended.
He said that oils like RED LINE were great for two strokes, but not for four strokes where you need lots of unburned oil making its way past the rings and valves and lubricating all those moving parts.
I used to use Red Line in everything.
When I got the Moki I switched to Amsoil Dominator for all my gassers, 2 or 4 stroke, running it at 40:1.
In my Saitos, I run it 20:1.
So far, so good..
Sad I won't get to enjoy the "racy red scent" on close fly bys...but oh well.
07-31-2021, 05:37 AM
07-31-2021, 06:16 AM
My Feedback: (149)
Hello Glow, and thanx for the response. For me, sounds like the 100LL might be fine for my mower, but my putt-putt slow flying would probably create more issues than +s. As non-ethanol no lead is readily available to me, guess I'll stick with it. Say, aren't you also one of the many Mike's that contribute on this thread?
T-man49 in Al
#723
T-man49 in Al
#723
07-31-2021, 08:25 AM
Richard, I've run my FG21's on 20:1 and on 15:1 gas/oil mix, not more than 100 rpm difference in peak rpm. I run 15:1 exclusively now for added protection. Aviation fuel (100LL) or Non Ethanolated gas and Stihl Ultra HP oil. Even though I use Amzoil products in my vehicles, was an Amzoil dealer for a few years, I cannot recommend Amzoil 2 stroke oil. Just way too much carbon buildup for my taste.
Same here, 16:1. Broke them in with Stihl, fly them on Amsoil. Agreed on the carbon too. With switch back to Stihl once I use up the Amsoil.
When I got the FG-11, and ran it @20:1, I was not satisfied with how dry the breather was and added more oil. I still run oil heavy.
07-31-2021, 09:25 AM
OIL: I will say this, Ray English (who most Saito-philes know) is a BIG proponent of MORE OIL.
He said he would never run a Saito 4 stroke gasser on less than 15:1.
Probably wouldn't hurt anything!!
He said he would never run a Saito 4 stroke gasser on less than 15:1.
Probably wouldn't hurt anything!!
07-31-2021, 11:58 AM
Hello Glow, and thanx for the response. For me, sounds like the 100LL might be fine for my mower, but my putt-putt slow flying would probably create more issues than +s. As non-ethanol no lead is readily available to me, guess I'll stick with it. Say, aren't you also one of the many Mike's that contribute on this thread?
T-man49 in Al
#723
T-man49 in Al
#723
07-31-2021, 12:05 PM
As far as oil for gassers, Redline, Stihl Ultra HD, Amzoil Dominator, Castrol 2T etc, we each use what we want. It's part of the hobby and an individual choice. What's useful is when folks report back after extended use of a particular product. Nothing beats imperical data.
Lots of good contributors to the Saito cause lurk here. Custom mufflers, tools, engine mods, test runs, something always going on here. Way more to learn as a collective than on our own. Stick around a while, would enjoy hearing about your experiences with your Saitos.
Lonnie
Last edited by Glowgeek; 07-31-2021 at 12:39 PM.
08-01-2021, 05:29 AM
Agreed, 15:1 or even 10:1 oil will not harm a bushed rod gasser. Rods with needle roller bearings, that's a different story.
As far as oil for gassers, Redline, Stihl Ultra HD, Amzoil Dominator, Castrol 2T etc, we each use what we want. It's part of the hobby and an individual choice. What's useful is when folks report back after extended use of a particular product. Nothing beats imperical data.
Lots of good contributors to the Saito cause lurk here. Custom mufflers, tools, engine mods, test runs, something always going on here. Way more to learn as a collective than on our own. Stick around a while, would enjoy hearing about your experiences with your Saitos.
Lonnie
As far as oil for gassers, Redline, Stihl Ultra HD, Amzoil Dominator, Castrol 2T etc, we each use what we want. It's part of the hobby and an individual choice. What's useful is when folks report back after extended use of a particular product. Nothing beats imperical data.
Lots of good contributors to the Saito cause lurk here. Custom mufflers, tools, engine mods, test runs, something always going on here. Way more to learn as a collective than on our own. Stick around a while, would enjoy hearing about your experiences with your Saitos.
Lonnie
I was referring tho the old Klotz ads Richard! Increased my carbon footprint yesterday...
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Ji8btYw9EJvyzqcd6
08-01-2021, 11:00 AM
Hey thanks, yessiree a blast to fly. Lands slick with those split flaps too! Only burned just under 2 gallons of methanol and enjoyed every minute. The 180 is a very happy engine too.
I ordered a bunch of Walbro carbs from eBay for methanol conversion. Should have the Fuji on the Great Planes Super Sportster up and running on methanol by next week. I will
bring that one out to your field this summer.
Traded a Saito FA-90T for a very low time FG-14 gasper. Will be converting that one this week to methanol fuel and popping it into a Toledo Special.
Last edited by Jesse Open; 08-01-2021 at 02:19 PM.
