Welcome to Club SAITO !
09-16-2021, 07:05 AM
Wildcat fuels was bought out by Byron's fuels back in 2013. Byron's discontinued all their fuel production last year. Been running my Saitos on a 50/50 mix of Morgan's Omega and Coolpower for years now with zero issues. Anecdotal but true.
Last year when the price of went through the roof (45% increase in price) I thought about mixing my own. Queried several people here about sourcing bulk fuel supplies and came very close to mixing. After some thought about the direction my RC modelling was taking me (bigger planes) I decided to take a different direction. My thought was that any of my aircraft requiring a .91 size 4 stroke or larger would get a gas engine. I now have 3 FG21's and an FG14 that replaced glow engines on 60 size aircraft and they have all worked out quite nice. Plenty of power and cheap to operate. I still have an FA180 in my H9 P-47 and it sounds so mean I probably won't swap or convert that one to gas, even though I have threatened to off and on for the last year.
My Saito line up now (All currently mounted and flying): FA56, FA62, FA82, FA180, FG14 & 3 FG21's. The only Saito I have on the shelf is another FA82 (modded to 11.72:1 compression). It flips me the bird every time I walk by.
Last year when the price of went through the roof (45% increase in price) I thought about mixing my own. Queried several people here about sourcing bulk fuel supplies and came very close to mixing. After some thought about the direction my RC modelling was taking me (bigger planes) I decided to take a different direction. My thought was that any of my aircraft requiring a .91 size 4 stroke or larger would get a gas engine. I now have 3 FG21's and an FG14 that replaced glow engines on 60 size aircraft and they have all worked out quite nice. Plenty of power and cheap to operate. I still have an FA180 in my H9 P-47 and it sounds so mean I probably won't swap or convert that one to gas, even though I have threatened to off and on for the last year.
My Saito line up now (All currently mounted and flying): FA56, FA62, FA82, FA180, FG14 & 3 FG21's. The only Saito I have on the shelf is another FA82 (modded to 11.72:1 compression). It flips me the bird every time I walk by.
Last edited by Glowgeek; 09-16-2021 at 08:11 AM.
09-16-2021, 09:24 AM
Senior Member
Hi Dave, welcome!
You have a few options. Saitos and other 4 stroke glow engines like 2%-3% castor content in the fuel imo. You can simply add 3.8 oz of Sig castor or Klotz Benol racing castor to your 15% Nitro Morgans Coolpower resulting in 131.8 oz of fuel having 17% synth/2.5% castor and 14.6% nitro. Alternatively you can mix equal parts of Morgans Coolpower and Morgans Omega together resulting in fuel having 15% synth/2.5% castor. Either of those mixes will work fine for break in and continued running. The third option and likely the cheapest is to purchase the fuel components in bulk and mix your own fuel.
You may find this link helpful:
NitroRC.com | Fuel Mixture Workshop
You have a few options. Saitos and other 4 stroke glow engines like 2%-3% castor content in the fuel imo. You can simply add 3.8 oz of Sig castor or Klotz Benol racing castor to your 15% Nitro Morgans Coolpower resulting in 131.8 oz of fuel having 17% synth/2.5% castor and 14.6% nitro. Alternatively you can mix equal parts of Morgans Coolpower and Morgans Omega together resulting in fuel having 15% synth/2.5% castor. Either of those mixes will work fine for break in and continued running. The third option and likely the cheapest is to purchase the fuel components in bulk and mix your own fuel.
You may find this link helpful:
NitroRC.com | Fuel Mixture Workshop
09-16-2021, 10:46 AM
Plus you can't beat the "racy red scent" that hovers in the air post fly bys.
Available locally for me too. I like that.
09-16-2021, 11:01 AM
09-16-2021, 01:59 PM
Senior Member
09-16-2021, 02:15 PM
Senior Member
09-16-2021, 02:49 PM
Glowgeek,
Any experience running a 180 on FAI fuel? I am preparing an engine for world competition, and will have to set it up depending on what will be available in Europe.
Any experience running a 180 on FAI fuel? I am preparing an engine for world competition, and will have to set it up depending on what will be available in Europe.
09-16-2021, 02:57 PM
Equip your 180 with a CDI conversion from CH ignitions and you can run 0% nitro or any fuel you like. With CDI higher nitro contents do little to nothing for peak rpm. With CDI you may see an increase in peak rpm over using 10% nitro with glow ignition. CDI will allow for lower idle rpm and increased fuel economy as well. It's a win-win except for the additional weight of the CDI unit, spark plug and ignition battery. The ignition battery can be eliminated with the introduction of an IBEC (ignition battery eliminator circuit). Tech Aero makes an extremely reliable IBEC.
On my larger (expensive) planes I do run two battery packs but the second pack is not used for the ignition, it's used for redundant power to the RX. The ignition still runs off the IBEC which gets its power and signal from the RX to serve as a kill switch, noise filter and an adjustable voltage regulator to match your required ignition voltage.
https://ch-ignitions.com/product-cat...ersion/single/
https://www.tech-aero.net/ultra-ibec
Last edited by Glowgeek; 09-16-2021 at 04:26 PM.
The following users liked this post:
triumphman49 (09-16-2021)
09-16-2021, 06:09 PM
My Feedback: (1)
A 30cc four stroke/cycle mini seems quite a bit anemic, boy Gary. I was not thinking well there! my mind is getting old!
I was thinking 180ccJim
Last edited by the Wasp; 09-16-2021 at 06:18 PM.
09-16-2021, 07:52 PM
I have not run my 180 on anything but 15% nitro.
Equip your 180 with a CDI conversion from CH ignitions and you can run 0% nitro or any fuel you like. With CDI higher nitro contents do little to nothing for peak rpm. With CDI you may see an increase in peak rpm over using 10% nitro with glow ignition. CDI will allow for lower idle rpm and increased fuel economy as well. It's a win-win except for the additional weight of the CDI unit, spark plug and ignition battery. The ignition battery can be eliminated with the introduction of an IBEC (ignition battery eliminator circuit). Tech Aero makes an extremely reliable IBEC.
On my larger (expensive) planes I do run two battery packs but the second pack is not used for the ignition, it's used for redundant power to the RX. The ignition still runs off the IBEC which gets its power and signal from the RX to serve as a kill switch, noise filter and an adjustable voltage regulator to match your required ignition voltage.
https://ch-ignitions.com/product-cat...ersion/single/
https://www.tech-aero.net/ultra-ibec
Equip your 180 with a CDI conversion from CH ignitions and you can run 0% nitro or any fuel you like. With CDI higher nitro contents do little to nothing for peak rpm. With CDI you may see an increase in peak rpm over using 10% nitro with glow ignition. CDI will allow for lower idle rpm and increased fuel economy as well. It's a win-win except for the additional weight of the CDI unit, spark plug and ignition battery. The ignition battery can be eliminated with the introduction of an IBEC (ignition battery eliminator circuit). Tech Aero makes an extremely reliable IBEC.
On my larger (expensive) planes I do run two battery packs but the second pack is not used for the ignition, it's used for redundant power to the RX. The ignition still runs off the IBEC which gets its power and signal from the RX to serve as a kill switch, noise filter and an adjustable voltage regulator to match your required ignition voltage.
https://ch-ignitions.com/product-cat...ersion/single/
https://www.tech-aero.net/ultra-ibec
09-17-2021, 02:26 AM
Senior Member
The Euro Saitos are the same as ours, they run zero nitro methane with no issues. They think we're crazy for wasting money on nitro methane like we do. I run all 10%, but I do have a single gallon of S&W 15% with 17% full syn.
09-17-2021, 04:15 AM
I would like to avoid adding equipment to the set up if possible. I was thinking more along the line of having to increase the compression, like a Rossi which is set up for low to no nitro. Are Saito engines run in Europe? Are they set up to run on no nitro? Or are the Europeans able to get nitro? These are many of the questions I am seeking answers to.
The FA180 ships with a compression ratio of 9.56:1 which is high enough to run on FAI fuel however it would perform and tune much better at 11.5:1 to 13:1 imo. The cylinder deck of the crankcase can be milled to lower the cylinder, thereby increasing the C/R. I have modded 2 Saitos in this way. They both run fine on FAI to 15% nitro, very similar to how they used to run on 15%-30% nitro.
My recommendations is to first try your 180 on FAI. Be aware that the needles will be much more sensitive to adjustments, transition will slow and peak power will be down. It may be good enough.
Lonnie
09-17-2021, 04:52 AM
Understood, adding weight is not an attractive solution. As Dave noted, same Saitos sold here as those sold abroad. Much of your decision is going to depend on the performance you get running FAI fuel in your 180 eg Does it produce adequate power? Tunable? Tractable? If you are currently on the cusp of inadequate power for contest flying using 15% nitro you may not like the performance you get from FAI.
The FA180 ships with a compression ratio of 9.56:1 which is high enough to run on FAI fuel however it would perform and tune much better at 11.5:1 to 13:1 imo. The cylinder deck of the crankcase can be milled to lower the cylinder, thereby increasing the C/R. I have modded 2 Saitos in this way. They both run fine on FAI to 15% nitro, very similar to how they used to run on 15%-30% nitro.
My recommendations is to first try your 180 on FAI. Be aware that the needles will be much more sensitive to adjustments, transition will slow and peak power will be down. It may be good enough.
Lonnie
The FA180 ships with a compression ratio of 9.56:1 which is high enough to run on FAI fuel however it would perform and tune much better at 11.5:1 to 13:1 imo. The cylinder deck of the crankcase can be milled to lower the cylinder, thereby increasing the C/R. I have modded 2 Saitos in this way. They both run fine on FAI to 15% nitro, very similar to how they used to run on 15%-30% nitro.
My recommendations is to first try your 180 on FAI. Be aware that the needles will be much more sensitive to adjustments, transition will slow and peak power will be down. It may be good enough.
Lonnie
The would run with or without mufflers and or tank pressure. Started easy and tuned normally.
Just gutless in power lol.
15% nitro is where I have settled for everyday use. Once I started commissioning my radial collection, it took that to eliminate the on board glo junk/bulk.
My cents adjusted for inflation....HEHE
09-17-2021, 04:53 AM
Understood, adding weight is not an attractive solution. As Dave noted, same Saitos sold here as those sold abroad. Much of your decision is going to depend on the performance you get running FAI fuel in your 180 eg Does it produce adequate power? Tunable? Tractable? If you are currently on the cusp of inadequate power for contest flying using 15% nitro you may not like the performance you get from FAI.
The FA180 ships with a compression ratio of 9.56:1 which is high enough to run on FAI fuel however it would perform and tune much better at 11.5:1 to 13:1 imo. The cylinder deck of the crankcase can be milled to lower the cylinder, thereby increasing the C/R. I have modded 2 Saitos in this way. They both run fine on FAI to 15% nitro, very similar to how they used to run on 15%-30% nitro.
My recommendations is to first try your 180 on FAI. Be aware that the needles will be much more sensitive to adjustments, transition will slow and peak power will be down. It may be good enough.
Lonnie
The FA180 ships with a compression ratio of 9.56:1 which is high enough to run on FAI fuel however it would perform and tune much better at 11.5:1 to 13:1 imo. The cylinder deck of the crankcase can be milled to lower the cylinder, thereby increasing the C/R. I have modded 2 Saitos in this way. They both run fine on FAI to 15% nitro, very similar to how they used to run on 15%-30% nitro.
My recommendations is to first try your 180 on FAI. Be aware that the needles will be much more sensitive to adjustments, transition will slow and peak power will be down. It may be good enough.
Lonnie
The airplane I am installing in is a Bates Moth Minor, which is a low wing trainer essentially. The Dehavilland version of a PT19 essentially. It is a fairly large plane with a 9' wingspan, but It is light, and my feeling is that the 180 is more than enough power. (too much probably)
After looking at the CH link, I think that might be a good way to go. The reason why I say this, is I was planning on adding on-board glow anyway, and going this way solves a couple of issues in one shot.
Not to mention that install is a piece of cake, and it is a reasonable price.
There is still the possibility that I could get nitro fuel in Norway, but I am not sure yet. Just trying to get my ducks in a row ahead of time, and weigh my options.
09-17-2021, 04:56 AM
My Feedback: (27)
I mix my own fuel. I use only 3% nitro and it runs fine. I was out flying a Saito 80 with it yesterday. I’ve found a small amount of nitro helps with the idle. I have tried running zero nitro and the needle gets very sensitive. I’ve read about people using a small amount of acetone in the fuel to overcome this.
09-17-2021, 06:16 AM
Senior Member
I got my camera cord replaced today and took a shot of the ring gap with the RMJ ring in the 56 cylinder, it is precisely .001". As I write this the cylinder is taking a nice medium, hot bath in antifreeze.
09-17-2021, 06:35 AM
I mix my own fuel. I use only 3% nitro and it runs fine. I was out flying a Saito 80 with it yesterday. I’ve found a small amount of nitro helps with the idle. I have tried running zero nitro and the needle gets very sensitive. I’ve read about people using a small amount of acetone in the fuel to overcome this.
09-17-2021, 06:42 AM
Hyjinx,
We pretty much settled on the 14% nitromethane and 14% oil blend years ago. Back in the late 1970's and early 1980's it was straight 80% methanol and 20% castor oil in the glow engines. At that time I was also running sparky engines, some on gaspoline and some on methanol.In time we phased out gaspoline totally.
The Klotz oil I can often get at the local motorcycle shop at decent prices and ot works just fine for my needs. Last year I made a batch of fuel using European made oil but doubt there is any reason good enough to justify the switch, and believe me,it stinks!
We were in Pennsylvania last Saturday, took advantage of the trip to pick up 30 gallons of fresh methanol at the dealer. The current price is $2.50/gallon, your container, not bad.
Monday morning I mixed a fresh batch of 14/14 fuel for the local bunch and myself. Came out to just over $13/gallon. All set again for now.
We pretty much settled on the 14% nitromethane and 14% oil blend years ago. Back in the late 1970's and early 1980's it was straight 80% methanol and 20% castor oil in the glow engines. At that time I was also running sparky engines, some on gaspoline and some on methanol.In time we phased out gaspoline totally.
The Klotz oil I can often get at the local motorcycle shop at decent prices and ot works just fine for my needs. Last year I made a batch of fuel using European made oil but doubt there is any reason good enough to justify the switch, and believe me,it stinks!
We were in Pennsylvania last Saturday, took advantage of the trip to pick up 30 gallons of fresh methanol at the dealer. The current price is $2.50/gallon, your container, not bad.
Monday morning I mixed a fresh batch of 14/14 fuel for the local bunch and myself. Came out to just over $13/gallon. All set again for now.
09-17-2021, 06:55 AM
Hyjinx,
We pretty much settled on the 14% nitromethane and 14% oil blend years ago. Back in the late 1970's and early 1980's it was straight 80% methanol and 20% castor oil in the glow engines. At that time I was also running sparky engines, some on gaspoline and some on methanol.In time we phased out gaspoline totally.
The Klotz oil I can often get at the local motorcycle shop at decent prices and ot works just fine for my needs. Last year I made a batch of fuel using European made oil but doubt there is any reason good enough to justify the switch, and believe me,it stinks!
We were in Pennsylvania last Saturday, took advantage of the trip to pick up 30 gallons of fresh methanol at the dealer. The current price is $2.50/gallon, your container, not bad.
Monday morning I mixed a fresh batch of 14/14 fuel for the local bunch and myself. Came out to just over $13/gallon. All set again for now.
We pretty much settled on the 14% nitromethane and 14% oil blend years ago. Back in the late 1970's and early 1980's it was straight 80% methanol and 20% castor oil in the glow engines. At that time I was also running sparky engines, some on gaspoline and some on methanol.In time we phased out gaspoline totally.
The Klotz oil I can often get at the local motorcycle shop at decent prices and ot works just fine for my needs. Last year I made a batch of fuel using European made oil but doubt there is any reason good enough to justify the switch, and believe me,it stinks!
We were in Pennsylvania last Saturday, took advantage of the trip to pick up 30 gallons of fresh methanol at the dealer. The current price is $2.50/gallon, your container, not bad.
Monday morning I mixed a fresh batch of 14/14 fuel for the local bunch and myself. Came out to just over $13/gallon. All set again for now.
09-17-2021, 07:07 AM
My Feedback: (27)
There are several race shops that are in driving distance that I can buy methanol. The methanol is not a problem. Nitro is a little harder to find so that is why I only use 3%. I have a several gallons here so I should not need to search for it for a while. I buy the Klotz from Amazon. I mix 4 liter jugs of fuel because wotking in metric is a lot more easy when making fuel. I've been doing this for many years.
09-17-2021, 07:30 AM
.....................
We were in Pennsylvania last Saturday, took advantage of the trip to pick up 30 gallons of fresh methanol at the dealer. The current price is $2.50/gallon, your container, not bad.
Monday morning I mixed a fresh batch of 14/14 fuel for the local bunch and myself. Came out to just over $13/gallon. All set again for now.
We were in Pennsylvania last Saturday, took advantage of the trip to pick up 30 gallons of fresh methanol at the dealer. The current price is $2.50/gallon, your container, not bad.
Monday morning I mixed a fresh batch of 14/14 fuel for the local bunch and myself. Came out to just over $13/gallon. All set again for now.
