Notices
Glow Engines Discuss RC glow engines

Welcome to Club SAITO !

Old 09-16-2021, 07:05 AM
  #51226  
Glowgeek
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,658
Received 35 Likes on 35 Posts
Default

Wildcat fuels was bought out by Byron's fuels back in 2013. Byron's discontinued all their fuel production last year. Been running my Saitos on a 50/50 mix of Morgan's Omega and Coolpower for years now with zero issues. Anecdotal but true.

Last year when the price of went through the roof (45% increase in price) I thought about mixing my own. Queried several people here about sourcing bulk fuel supplies and came very close to mixing. After some thought about the direction my RC modelling was taking me (bigger planes) I decided to take a different direction. My thought was that any of my aircraft requiring a .91 size 4 stroke or larger would get a gas engine. I now have 3 FG21's and an FG14 that replaced glow engines on 60 size aircraft and they have all worked out quite nice. Plenty of power and cheap to operate. I still have an FA180 in my H9 P-47 and it sounds so mean I probably won't swap or convert that one to gas, even though I have threatened to off and on for the last year.

My Saito line up now (All currently mounted and flying): FA56, FA62, FA82, FA180, FG14 & 3 FG21's. The only Saito I have on the shelf is another FA82 (modded to 11.72:1 compression). It flips me the bird every time I walk by.


Last edited by Glowgeek; 09-16-2021 at 08:11 AM.
Old 09-16-2021, 09:24 AM
  #51227  
tmaxx1701
Senior Member
 
tmaxx1701's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Lake Orion, MI
Posts: 137
Received 20 Likes on 15 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Glowgeek View Post
Hi Dave, welcome!

You have a few options. Saitos and other 4 stroke glow engines like 2%-3% castor content in the fuel imo. You can simply add 3.8 oz of Sig castor or Klotz Benol racing castor to your 15% Nitro Morgans Coolpower resulting in 131.8 oz of fuel having 17% synth/2.5% castor and 14.6% nitro. Alternatively you can mix equal parts of Morgans Coolpower and Morgans Omega together resulting in fuel having 15% synth/2.5% castor. Either of those mixes will work fine for break in and continued running. The third option and likely the cheapest is to purchase the fuel components in bulk and mix your own fuel.

You may find this link helpful:

NitroRC.com | Fuel Mixture Workshop
Thanks for the input. It looks like I can get the Klotz oil locally so I will go ahead and add to my current fuel.
Old 09-16-2021, 10:46 AM
  #51228  
Hyjinx
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 636
Received 12 Likes on 12 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by tmaxx1701 View Post
Thanks for the input. It looks like I can get the Klotz oil locally so I will go ahead and add to my current fuel.
The techniplate (klotz) gives a nice addition of castor to my 50/50 omega heli fuel mixes. Been happy with klotz.
Plus you can't beat the "racy red scent" that hovers in the air post fly bys.
Available locally for me too. I like that.
Old 09-16-2021, 11:01 AM
  #51229  
FlyerInOKC
My Feedback: (6)
 
FlyerInOKC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
Posts: 13,014
Received 110 Likes on 104 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Hyjinx View Post
The techniplate (klotz) gives a nice addition of castor to my 50/50 omega heli fuel mixes. Been happy with klotz.
Plus you can't beat the "racy red scent" that hovers in the air post fly bys.
Available locally for me too. I like that.
So that is the infamous cologne you wear!
Old 09-16-2021, 11:06 AM
  #51230  
Hyjinx
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 636
Received 12 Likes on 12 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by FlyerInOKC View Post
So that is the infamous cologne you wear!
Infamous Lonnie. Why yes I like that too!
Old 09-16-2021, 01:59 PM
  #51231  
1200SportsterRider
Senior Member
 
1200SportsterRider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Virginia
Posts: 368
Likes: 0
Received 9 Likes on 9 Posts
Default

SW fuel is still around, hell make it how ever you want it: RC Airplane 4 Cycle - S-W Fuels
Old 09-16-2021, 02:01 PM
  #51232  
Glowgeek
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,658
Received 35 Likes on 35 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by 1200SportsterRider View Post
SW fuel is still around, hell make it how ever you want it: RC Airplane 4 Cycle - S-W Fuels
Reports are it's good fuel, no bad reports anyway.
Old 09-16-2021, 02:15 PM
  #51233  
1200SportsterRider
Senior Member
 
1200SportsterRider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Virginia
Posts: 368
Likes: 0
Received 9 Likes on 9 Posts
Default

Also Red Max: https://fhsoils.com/product/rc-airplane-fuel/
Old 09-16-2021, 02:23 PM
  #51234  
Glowgeek
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,658
Received 35 Likes on 35 Posts
Default

Checked pricing.

S&W $150 shipped for 4 gl of 15%
Redmax $139 shipped for 16 qt of 15%
Old 09-16-2021, 02:49 PM
  #51235  
vertical grimmace
My Feedback: (1)
 
vertical grimmace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: ft collins , CO
Posts: 7,220
Received 8 Likes on 8 Posts
Default

Glowgeek,

Any experience running a 180 on FAI fuel? I am preparing an engine for world competition, and will have to set it up depending on what will be available in Europe.
Old 09-16-2021, 02:57 PM
  #51236  
Glowgeek
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,658
Received 35 Likes on 35 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by vertical grimmace View Post
Glowgeek,

Any experience running a 180 on FAI fuel? I am preparing an engine for world competition, and will have to set it up depending on what will be available in Europe.
I have not run my 180 on anything but 15% nitro.

Equip your 180 with a CDI conversion from CH ignitions and you can run 0% nitro or any fuel you like. With CDI higher nitro contents do little to nothing for peak rpm. With CDI you may see an increase in peak rpm over using 10% nitro with glow ignition. CDI will allow for lower idle rpm and increased fuel economy as well. It's a win-win except for the additional weight of the CDI unit, spark plug and ignition battery. The ignition battery can be eliminated with the introduction of an IBEC (ignition battery eliminator circuit). Tech Aero makes an extremely reliable IBEC.

On my larger (expensive) planes I do run two battery packs but the second pack is not used for the ignition, it's used for redundant power to the RX. The ignition still runs off the IBEC which gets its power and signal from the RX to serve as a kill switch, noise filter and an adjustable voltage regulator to match your required ignition voltage.

https://ch-ignitions.com/product-cat...ersion/single/

https://www.tech-aero.net/ultra-ibec

Last edited by Glowgeek; 09-16-2021 at 04:26 PM.
The following users liked this post:
triumphman49 (09-16-2021)
Old 09-16-2021, 06:09 PM
  #51237  
the Wasp
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: VT
Posts: 4,780
Likes: 0
Received 25 Likes on 24 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Jesse Open View Post
Dunno on that A 30cc four stroke/cycle mini seems quite a bit anemic, That puny front bearing would go bellyup in short order with the side load of a drive chain.

boy Gary. I was not thinking well there! my mind is getting old! I was thinking 180cc

Jim

Last edited by the Wasp; 09-16-2021 at 06:18 PM.
Old 09-16-2021, 07:52 PM
  #51238  
vertical grimmace
My Feedback: (1)
 
vertical grimmace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: ft collins , CO
Posts: 7,220
Received 8 Likes on 8 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Glowgeek View Post
I have not run my 180 on anything but 15% nitro.

Equip your 180 with a CDI conversion from CH ignitions and you can run 0% nitro or any fuel you like. With CDI higher nitro contents do little to nothing for peak rpm. With CDI you may see an increase in peak rpm over using 10% nitro with glow ignition. CDI will allow for lower idle rpm and increased fuel economy as well. It's a win-win except for the additional weight of the CDI unit, spark plug and ignition battery. The ignition battery can be eliminated with the introduction of an IBEC (ignition battery eliminator circuit). Tech Aero makes an extremely reliable IBEC.

On my larger (expensive) planes I do run two battery packs but the second pack is not used for the ignition, it's used for redundant power to the RX. The ignition still runs off the IBEC which gets its power and signal from the RX to serve as a kill switch, noise filter and an adjustable voltage regulator to match your required ignition voltage.

https://ch-ignitions.com/product-cat...ersion/single/

https://www.tech-aero.net/ultra-ibec
I would like to avoid adding equipment to the set up if possible. I was thinking more along the line of having to increase the compression, like a Rossi which is set up for low to no nitro. Are Saito engines run in Europe? Are they set up to run on no nitro? Or are the Europeans able to get nitro? These are many of the questions I am seeking answers to.
Old 09-17-2021, 02:26 AM
  #51239  
1200SportsterRider
Senior Member
 
1200SportsterRider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Virginia
Posts: 368
Likes: 0
Received 9 Likes on 9 Posts
Default

The Euro Saitos are the same as ours, they run zero nitro methane with no issues. They think we're crazy for wasting money on nitro methane like we do. I run all 10%, but I do have a single gallon of S&W 15% with 17% full syn.
Old 09-17-2021, 04:15 AM
  #51240  
Glowgeek
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,658
Received 35 Likes on 35 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by vertical grimmace View Post
I would like to avoid adding equipment to the set up if possible. I was thinking more along the line of having to increase the compression, like a Rossi which is set up for low to no nitro. Are Saito engines run in Europe? Are they set up to run on no nitro? Or are the Europeans able to get nitro? These are many of the questions I am seeking answers to.
Understood, adding weight is not an attractive solution. As Dave noted, same Saitos sold here as those sold abroad. Much of your decision is going to depend on the performance you get running FAI fuel in your 180 eg Does it produce adequate power? Tunable? Tractable? If you are currently on the cusp of inadequate power for contest flying using 15% nitro you may not like the performance you get from FAI.

The FA180 ships with a compression ratio of 9.56:1 which is high enough to run on FAI fuel however it would perform and tune much better at 11.5:1 to 13:1 imo. The cylinder deck of the crankcase can be milled to lower the cylinder, thereby increasing the C/R. I have modded 2 Saitos in this way. They both run fine on FAI to 15% nitro, very similar to how they used to run on 15%-30% nitro.

My recommendations is to first try your 180 on FAI. Be aware that the needles will be much more sensitive to adjustments, transition will slow and peak power will be down. It may be good enough.

Lonnie
Old 09-17-2021, 04:52 AM
  #51241  
Hyjinx
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 636
Received 12 Likes on 12 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Glowgeek View Post
Understood, adding weight is not an attractive solution. As Dave noted, same Saitos sold here as those sold abroad. Much of your decision is going to depend on the performance you get running FAI fuel in your 180 eg Does it produce adequate power? Tunable? Tractable? If you are currently on the cusp of inadequate power for contest flying using 15% nitro you may not like the performance you get from FAI.

The FA180 ships with a compression ratio of 9.56:1 which is high enough to run on FAI fuel however it would perform and tune much better at 11.5:1 to 13:1 imo. The cylinder deck of the crankcase can be milled to lower the cylinder, thereby increasing the C/R. I have modded 2 Saitos in this way. They both run fine on FAI to 15% nitro, very similar to how they used to run on 15%-30% nitro.

My recommendations is to first try your 180 on FAI. Be aware that the needles will be much more sensitive to adjustments, transition will slow and peak power will be down. It may be good enough.

Lonnie
Pretty much my experience also Lonnie. Earlier in my experience I ran all my Saitos and OS singles on straight methanol.
The would run with or without mufflers and or tank pressure. Started easy and tuned normally.
Just gutless in power lol.
15% nitro is where I have settled for everyday use. Once I started commissioning my radial collection, it took that to eliminate the on board glo junk/bulk.
My cents adjusted for inflation....HEHE
Old 09-17-2021, 04:53 AM
  #51242  
vertical grimmace
My Feedback: (1)
 
vertical grimmace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: ft collins , CO
Posts: 7,220
Received 8 Likes on 8 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Glowgeek View Post
Understood, adding weight is not an attractive solution. As Dave noted, same Saitos sold here as those sold abroad. Much of your decision is going to depend on the performance you get running FAI fuel in your 180 eg Does it produce adequate power? Tunable? Tractable? If you are currently on the cusp of inadequate power for contest flying using 15% nitro you may not like the performance you get from FAI.

The FA180 ships with a compression ratio of 9.56:1 which is high enough to run on FAI fuel however it would perform and tune much better at 11.5:1 to 13:1 imo. The cylinder deck of the crankcase can be milled to lower the cylinder, thereby increasing the C/R. I have modded 2 Saitos in this way. They both run fine on FAI to 15% nitro, very similar to how they used to run on 15%-30% nitro.

My recommendations is to first try your 180 on FAI. Be aware that the needles will be much more sensitive to adjustments, transition will slow and peak power will be down. It may be good enough.

Lonnie
Lonnie,

The airplane I am installing in is a Bates Moth Minor, which is a low wing trainer essentially. The Dehavilland version of a PT19 essentially. It is a fairly large plane with a 9' wingspan, but It is light, and my feeling is that the 180 is more than enough power. (too much probably)

After looking at the CH link, I think that might be a good way to go. The reason why I say this, is I was planning on adding on-board glow anyway, and going this way solves a couple of issues in one shot.

Not to mention that install is a piece of cake, and it is a reasonable price.

There is still the possibility that I could get nitro fuel in Norway, but I am not sure yet. Just trying to get my ducks in a row ahead of time, and weigh my options.
Old 09-17-2021, 04:56 AM
  #51243  
modeltronics
My Feedback: (27)
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cross Plains, TX
Posts: 501
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Default

I mix my own fuel. I use only 3% nitro and it runs fine. I was out flying a Saito 80 with it yesterday. I’ve found a small amount of nitro helps with the idle. I have tried running zero nitro and the needle gets very sensitive. I’ve read about people using a small amount of acetone in the fuel to overcome this.
Old 09-17-2021, 06:16 AM
  #51244  
1200SportsterRider
Senior Member
 
1200SportsterRider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Virginia
Posts: 368
Likes: 0
Received 9 Likes on 9 Posts
Default

I got my camera cord replaced today and took a shot of the ring gap with the RMJ ring in the 56 cylinder, it is precisely .001". As I write this the cylinder is taking a nice medium, hot bath in antifreeze.
Old 09-17-2021, 06:35 AM
  #51245  
vertical grimmace
My Feedback: (1)
 
vertical grimmace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: ft collins , CO
Posts: 7,220
Received 8 Likes on 8 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by modeltronics View Post
I mix my own fuel. I use only 3% nitro and it runs fine. I was out flying a Saito 80 with it yesterday. Iíve found a small amount of nitro helps with the idle. I have tried running zero nitro and the needle gets very sensitive. Iíve read about people using a small amount of acetone in the fuel to overcome this.
Where do you get your methanol?
Old 09-17-2021, 06:42 AM
  #51246  
Jesse Open
 
Jesse Open's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 2,691
Received 29 Likes on 23 Posts
Default

Hyjinx,
We pretty much settled on the 14% nitromethane and 14% oil blend years ago. Back in the late 1970's and early 1980's it was straight 80% methanol and 20% castor oil in the glow engines. At that time I was also running sparky engines, some on gaspoline and some on methanol.In time we phased out gaspoline totally.
The Klotz oil I can often get at the local motorcycle shop at decent prices and ot works just fine for my needs. Last year I made a batch of fuel using European made oil but doubt there is any reason good enough to justify the switch, and believe me,it stinks!



We were in Pennsylvania last Saturday, took advantage of the trip to pick up 30 gallons of fresh methanol at the dealer. The current price is $2.50/gallon, your container, not bad.
Monday morning I mixed a fresh batch of 14/14 fuel for the local bunch and myself. Came out to just over $13/gallon. All set again for now.
Old 09-17-2021, 06:55 AM
  #51247  
Hyjinx
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 636
Received 12 Likes on 12 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Jesse Open View Post
Hyjinx,
We pretty much settled on the 14% nitromethane and 14% oil blend years ago. Back in the late 1970's and early 1980's it was straight 80% methanol and 20% castor oil in the glow engines. At that time I was also running sparky engines, some on gaspoline and some on methanol.In time we phased out gaspoline totally.
The Klotz oil I can often get at the local motorcycle shop at decent prices and ot works just fine for my needs. Last year I made a batch of fuel using European made oil but doubt there is any reason good enough to justify the switch, and believe me,it stinks!



We were in Pennsylvania last Saturday, took advantage of the trip to pick up 30 gallons of fresh methanol at the dealer. The current price is $2.50/gallon, your container, not bad.
Monday morning I mixed a fresh batch of 14/14 fuel for the local bunch and myself. Came out to just over $13/gallon. All set again for now.
I like the way you think Buddy
Old 09-17-2021, 07:07 AM
  #51248  
modeltronics
My Feedback: (27)
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cross Plains, TX
Posts: 501
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Default

There are several race shops that are in driving distance that I can buy methanol. The methanol is not a problem. Nitro is a little harder to find so that is why I only use 3%. I have a several gallons here so I should not need to search for it for a while. I buy the Klotz from Amazon. I mix 4 liter jugs of fuel because wotking in metric is a lot more easy when making fuel. I've been doing this for many years.
Old 09-17-2021, 07:07 AM
  #51249  
Glowgeek
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,658
Received 35 Likes on 35 Posts
Default 1/4 Scale Moth Minor with Saito 180


Not my plane but the low speed needle is set way too rich. Lol

Last edited by Glowgeek; 09-17-2021 at 09:53 AM.
Old 09-17-2021, 07:30 AM
  #51250  
Glowgeek
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,658
Received 35 Likes on 35 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Jesse Open View Post
.....................
We were in Pennsylvania last Saturday, took advantage of the trip to pick up 30 gallons of fresh methanol at the dealer. The current price is $2.50/gallon, your container, not bad.
Monday morning I mixed a fresh batch of 14/14 fuel for the local bunch and myself. Came out to just over $13/gallon. All set again for now.
Well that's just remarkable Gary. I would have a difficult time mixing 14/14 fuel at that price even I could get the methanol for $2.50 gl. and the nitro for free. Last time I priced fuel components for 15%N/18% oil it would've cost me $23-$24 gl. Apparently I need to find different sources if I decide to mix my own.

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.