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Old 09-25-2021, 03:22 AM
  #51301  
rajul
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Originally Posted by Glowgeek View Post
Neither are for Saito imo.
That's what my gut feeling is telling me too. Besides my Saito 82 and 125 don't use chokes. I guess the chokes are on older 150s?

Last edited by rajul; 09-25-2021 at 05:51 AM.
Old 09-25-2021, 03:59 AM
  #51302  
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Btw, I found this in the late Bill Robison's notes:

"A couple you mention though - the white ring is Teflon, it is used to seal the choke plate when one is fitted, it goes in the groove on the outside of the carb, the choke slider holds it in place, There are two places for the tiny ones, inside the needle valve as an air seal, and on the front end of the axle the cam turns on."

I just cut one of the bigger washers, and it is homogeneously white inside. Looks like it is teflon.
Old 09-25-2021, 11:09 AM
  #51303  
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Originally Posted by rajul View Post
Btw, I found this in the late Bill Robison's notes:

"A couple you mention though - the white ring is Teflon, it is used to seal the choke plate when one is fitted, it goes in the groove on the outside of the carb, the choke slider holds it in place, There are two places for the tiny ones, inside the needle valve as an air seal, and on the front end of the axle the cam turns on."

I just cut one of the bigger washers, and it is homogeneously white inside. Looks like it is teflon.
Yep, two of those locations are what I was referring to. The smaller washers you have are too small to be cam thrust washers as they would need to be 4mm ID. The larger washers don't appear to be thick enough to be choke plate washers. That's why I feel neither are for Saito.

Interesting that Saito elected to put chokes on a lot of their glow engines but not on others. It was never needed as placing ones finger over the exhaust outlet and rolling the engine over pressurizes the tank thereby forcing plenty of fuel to the carb. Unfortunately Saito elected to forego the implantation of a choke on their gassers where it IS needed due to the absence of muffler pressure.
Old 09-25-2021, 01:49 PM
  #51304  
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Originally Posted by Glowgeek View Post
Yep, two of those locations are what I was referring to. The smaller washers you have are too small to be cam thrust washers as they would need to be 4mm ID. The larger washers don't appear to be thick enough to be choke plate washers. That's why I feel neither are for Saito.

Interesting that Saito elected to put chokes on a lot of their glow engines but not on others. It was never needed as placing ones finger over the exhaust outlet and rolling the engine over pressurizes the tank thereby forcing plenty of fuel to the carb. Unfortunately Saito elected to forego the implantation of a choke on their gassers where it IS needed due to the absence of muffler pressure.
I have the stuff:

Old 09-25-2021, 03:15 PM
  #51305  
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Originally Posted by 1200SportsterRider View Post
I have the stuff:
Hotdog! My 180 will be a happy camper.
Old 09-26-2021, 05:51 AM
  #51306  
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Default Swap meet finds

Yesterday I went to a swap meet north of Dallas. I had to drive right through Dallas to get there. I now remember why I donít like big cities and live out in the country. The early morning traffic was crazy. This was the first swap meet Iíve been to in two years because of the covid crisis. I was able to pick up several Saito bargains. Some of these engines will be winter rebuild projects.

For the rebuilds projects I picked up two Saito 80 engines and one Saito 65 that I think is the high compression version. The 65 has the bump on the piston and has an old version of the carb with an air bleed. One of the Saito 80 engines needs an exhaust system that I will be keeping an eye out for.

I also got a nice early version open rocker Saito 30. This engine is in really nice shape. I will probably never fly it but for the price it will be a nice addition to my collection.

Of the non-Saito things, I was able to pick up: I bought 2 gallons of nitro at a good price. Since I mix my own fuel that is one of the things that I really have to look for to keep the price of fuel in hand. I also picked up a new Sig LT-40 kit to build. I have the little LT-25 with an old pre-Surpass FS40 so I hope this plane will fly as nice. I also picked up a couple of non Saito engines. I think I am pretty well set for winter projects.



Old 09-26-2021, 05:58 AM
  #51307  
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Congrats on your swap meet finds Pedro! You're going to love that HC 65 using your 3% nitro mix. That FA30 looks to be in excellent shape. Should clean up to like-new condition.

Post a pic or two of the HC 65 please.

nitro, Nitro, NITRO!

Last edited by Glowgeek; 09-26-2021 at 06:01 AM.
Old 09-26-2021, 06:30 AM
  #51308  
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Default Saito 65

Here ya go Lonnie:



Old 09-26-2021, 09:44 AM
  #51309  
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Thanks Pedro. Yep, it has the curvie cylinder mounting flange like all HC 65's that I've seen. Looks to be a very low time engine but what's up the piston top? Looks like something got in there and bounced around a bit before it was ejected out the exhaust. Do the valves seal properly?
Old 09-26-2021, 10:18 AM
  #51310  
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Lonnie
When I saw that it bothered me. The inside of the cylinder looks great. The valves seal good. Those marks are only around the top of the piston near the outside diameter. If something were bouncing around in there I would think it would be all over the top of the piston. If you look at the picture in this review Saito FA-65 (2) (sceptreflight.com) it does not have those marks. I seem to remember reading about someone else asking about the same thing. What are your thoughts on this?????
Old 09-26-2021, 11:31 AM
  #51311  
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Originally Posted by modeltronics View Post
Lonnie
When I saw that it bothered me. The inside of the cylinder looks great. The valves seal good. Those marks are only around the top of the piston near the outside diameter. If something were bouncing around in there I would think it would be all over the top of the piston. If you look at the picture in this review Saito FA-65 (2) (sceptreflight.com) it does not have those marks. I seem to remember reading about someone else asking about the same thing. What are your thoughts on this?????
As long as the ring can move freely in the ring groove, the valves seal and everything else looks good I'd run it. Imperfections on the piston crown can cause hot spots to develop so be listening for detonation during run up. If it gives you trouble do a few cleaning passes on your lathe at work.

I've seen that saw toothed appearance on a lathed part back was I was managing test fixture production for Dell. The company that produced the parts said it looked like the part slipped in their lathe chuck. The marks weren't exactly like those on your piston but it did have a similar sawtoothed appearance.

Last edited by Glowgeek; 09-26-2021 at 12:31 PM.
Old 09-26-2021, 03:51 PM
  #51312  
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Dave,

Here is one you may like. Made from a single piece of brass

Old 09-26-2021, 05:24 PM
  #51313  
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Originally Posted by modeltronics View Post
Yesterday I went to a swap meet north of Dallas. I had to drive right through Dallas to get there. I now remember why I donít like big cities and live out in the country. The early morning traffic was crazy. This was the first swap meet Iíve been to in two years because of the covid crisis. I was able to pick up several Saito bargains. Some of these engines will be winter rebuild projects.

For the rebuilds projects I picked up two Saito 80 engines and one Saito 65 that I think is the high compression version. The 65 has the bump on the piston and has an old version of the carb with an air bleed. One of the Saito 80 engines needs an exhaust system that I will be keeping an eye out for.

I also got a nice early version open rocker Saito 30. This engine is in really nice shape. I will probably never fly it but for the price it will be a nice addition to my collection.

Of the non-Saito things, I was able to pick up: I bought 2 gallons of nitro at a good price. Since I mix my own fuel that is one of the things that I really have to look for to keep the price of fuel in hand. I also picked up a new Sig LT-40 kit to build. I have the little LT-25 with an old pre-Surpass FS40 so I hope this plane will fly as nice. I also picked up a couple of non Saito engines. I think I am pretty well set for winter projects.
if I knew you were going to a swap meet I would have went with you. I need a good Saito 91 cylinder.

Jim

Old 09-26-2021, 05:37 PM
  #51314  
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Originally Posted by modeltronics View Post
Here ya go Lonnie:

that can be cleaned up nicely on a lathe. how did Saito let that go to production

Jim
Old 09-26-2021, 07:39 PM
  #51315  
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Lonnie, this guy had more problems than I had.

in the end I put both cones on the shaft back to back and held the cones in one hand between my fingers and turned the shaft, I could feel/found the cones are not drilled/machined accurately straight. this is something DuBro should fix

Jim


Last edited by the Wasp; 09-26-2021 at 07:55 PM.
Old 09-27-2021, 01:59 AM
  #51316  
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Originally Posted by Jesse Open View Post
Dave,

Here is one you may like. Made from a single piece of brass

Gary, that is very nice. Thanks
Old 09-27-2021, 02:02 AM
  #51317  
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Originally Posted by the Wasp View Post
that can be cleaned up nicely on a lathe. how did Saito let that go to production

Jim

Maybe some unhandy guy tried to lower the compression ratio. I could make it neat on my lathe.
Old 09-27-2021, 03:18 AM
  #51318  
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Dave,
I will keep that in mind. I want to see if there is a collet to fit the piston at the shop I work at part time. If I do send you the piston, can I send you an Enya 53 also?
Old 09-27-2021, 03:20 AM
  #51319  
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Originally Posted by 1200SportsterRider View Post
Maybe some unhandy guy tried to lower the compression ratio. I could make it neat on my lathe.

And that would lower the compression ratio (Depending on how thick the band is)

Your unhandy guy could have more easily ground off or filed down the piston hump. A shim under the cylinder made from aluminum pie plate would do as well and easily removed later.

Be very careful about holding pistons in three or four jaw, hard jaw chucks.
All too easy to distort the skirts.
Better to use an exact, on-size colllet or custom bored, on-sized aluminum jaws, lightly clamped to avoid the hard, pressure points. At very least , a six jaw chuck would be less risky than a three.



Last edited by Jesse Open; 09-27-2021 at 03:23 AM.
Old 09-27-2021, 03:25 AM
  #51320  
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Originally Posted by the Wasp View Post
Lonnie, this guy had more problems than I had.

in the end I put both cones on the shaft back to back and held the cones in one hand between my fingers and turned the shaft, I could feel/found the cones are not drilled/machined accurately straight. this is something DuBro should fix

Jim

https://youtu.be/iJqe1dCD8tg
Yep, if you spin the cones and balance changes something is wrong. Best to test this with no prop on the shaft. Both of my Dubro balancers are machined to near perfection.

Irregularities on the prop, before and after reaming will affect balance as well eg off axis reaming, mold flash or burrs on the center hole at the hub faces.

One last thing that's often overlooked is air movement. An open door or window, a fan blowing in the background or the AC kicking on and off can really mess with balancing. Even someone walking by you can throw things off momentarily.

Last edited by Glowgeek; 09-27-2021 at 11:05 AM.
Old 09-27-2021, 03:43 PM
  #51321  
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I took my disassembled high compression 65 to my part time job in the CNC lathe shop this morning. The owner spent an hour looking over all the parts. This guy loves stuff like this. Looking at the top of the piston under magnification we could not see any file or machine marks. Could this piston have come from Saito this way? We found a collet that will fit the piston. As soon as one of the CNC Mazak lathes is free it is going for a trim. The collet pressure will be turned way down. I am tempted to just use some emery cloth on the ragged part of the piston. If we do use a cutting tool I will let the shop owner, do it. Any suggestions????
Old 09-27-2021, 05:08 PM
  #51322  
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Originally Posted by modeltronics View Post
I took my disassembled high compression 65 to my part time job in the CNC lathe shop this morning. The owner spent an hour looking over all the parts. This guy loves stuff like this. Looking at the top of the piston under magnification we could not see any file or machine marks. Could this piston have come from Saito this way? We found a collet that will fit the piston. As soon as one of the CNC Mazak lathes is free it is going for a trim. The collet pressure will be turned way down. I am tempted to just use some emery cloth on the ragged part of the piston. If we do use a cutting tool I will let the shop owner, do it. Any suggestions????
Run it as is for a season or more. Disassemble and see if the irregularities carbon filled or are clean metal. Just to check your oil mix brand for carbon deposits. LOL. That's my lame brain suggestion Pedro.
Next a question. What spray product are you guys using to identify a pesky intake leak in your Saitos? I am having fits with my 325 R5 this season. Normal troubleshooting procedures and obvious stuff are not going anywhere fast. Used to use carb clean years ago. Brake kleen now but not sure if that is good with methanol. Anybody ever just try a blow gun of compressed air to cause a lean rpm increase response?
Old 09-29-2021, 04:00 AM
  #51323  
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I ordered a gallon of Methanol, 7.8 pounds x 16 = 124.8 oz, is 20% by volume = to 24.96 oz. Or am I crazy wrong? Thanks, Dave
Old 09-29-2021, 10:00 AM
  #51324  
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Originally Posted by 1200SportsterRider View Post
I ordered a gallon of Methanol, 7.8 pounds x 16 = 124.8 oz, is 20% by volume = to 24.96 oz. Or am I crazy wrong? Thanks, Dave
20% of 124.8 oz is indeed 24.96 oz but your final mix won't be 80/20 because the total mixed volume increases to 149.76 so your oil percent will be short of 20%

To get exactly 1 gl of 80/20 add 24.8 oz oil to 103.2 oz methanol.
Or, to use up the entire 124.8 oz of methanol you purchased add 30 oz of oil. You will then have 154.8 oz of 80/20.

Last edited by Glowgeek; 09-29-2021 at 03:22 PM.
Old 09-29-2021, 02:45 PM
  #51325  
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When I mix fuel I do it in metric. Four liters will fit in a gallon jug. Doing it in metric you do not have to deal with fractions of an ounce. Not that the math dealing with ounces is that hard to work with, it just seems more easy to deal will milliliters as whole numbers.

Last edited by modeltronics; 09-29-2021 at 03:06 PM.

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