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Welcome to Club SAITO !

Old 11-03-2006, 11:50 PM
  #5126  
stallwart
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ORIGINAL: blw

I found this tonight. It is new in the box, and I think the box was never opened. It came with a manual on xeroxed sheets with many spelling and grammatical errors. Anyway, the engine came home with me.


What sort of bait did you use? All my strikes are retail.
Old 11-03-2006, 11:55 PM
  #5127  
w8ye
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There were a couple floating around in the market place last week
Old 11-03-2006, 11:59 PM
  #5128  
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Yes, something big. Guess I need to build a test stand too. This must have been one of the first 170R3s by the look of the manual. Maybe a Waco? Something that isn't cowled if you have any suggestions....

I told Glenn yesterday that I was going to insist that you sell me one of your Saito 30s. He laughed. This guy had a 30S GK new in the box too. I gave him $150 for it.

Yep, the carb is facing up. It also has a nipple to prime the carb with a syringe.
Old 11-04-2006, 09:02 AM
  #5129  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Saito 72 revisited...... I put a new backplate on my 72. Am I supposed to change out the intake Orings?
Old 11-04-2006, 10:43 AM
  #5130  
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Yes, by all means
Old 11-04-2006, 03:58 PM
  #5131  
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I started the break-in on my 82 today. Flipped a few times to prime, started on first flip. I have a couple of questions though.

First 12oz. tank, about 12 minute run, engine was really rich. 4k RPM max, mostly around 3k RPM
Second 12oz tank, hooked up my IB regulator, engine ran even better. About 5k RPM max, mostly around 4k RPM. Still super rich.
Third 12oz tank, the same, except about 6.5kRPM max.

Problems start here:
Fourth 12oz tank with fresh fuel, couldn't get it to stay running. Switched out plugs, same thing. Pulled off the regulator, worked fine. Continued letting it run but I noticed the exhaust wasn't spitting out raw fuel. Not as rich as it should be. Opened up the high speed needle all the way, still nothing. Opened up the low speed about 2 turns until the screw was level with the throttle arm. Nothing. Opened it up to see where the engine was taching at... about 10500RPM with a APC 14x4w... immediately throttled down and cut the engine. Total run time here was maybe 2 minutes. Very light exhaust smoke while at full throttle. Hard to tell when bench running with a fence behind you. Smoke coming out of the muffler after I cut the engine, but I don't think this was abnormal. All my other engines do it after running full throttle. Residual oil in the muffler I think. Also on this run some castor finally varnished the muffler a bit.
Reset all the needles, 2.5 turns out on the high speed, low speed back to where it was when I first ran it (not sure how far out). I noticed when I first started the engine today that the high speed needle was almost all the way in, but before it actually ran I opened it up 3 turns. I was concerned the low speed was lean too, but it was spitting out tons of raw fuel. I probably lost 300-500 rpm just from taking the glow igniter off on the first run.
Anyway, after resetting the needles, I primed it and flipped it and it ran just fine, and nice and rich. Full throttle was around 9700RPM.

My question is this: When I noticed the engine not spitting out as much fuel, was that a lean run? When I put my hand in the exhaust it didn't take long to deposit a fair bit of oil onto my skin (before it was too hot for me to hold my hand there any longer - maybe 2 or 3 seconds). Should I be concerned?
What would have caused the engine to lean out when no needle settings had been changed? Could it be because the first few tanks were run on some older fuel (about 3 months since I opened it, but it does stay sealed and in the dark)?

Engine still running great. Finished off the fourth tank and at about 2.5 turns out on the hi speed it was taching 10,000RPM with an APC 14x4w prop and 20% nitro. Plenty of raw fuel coming out of the exhaust.

Total run time today was about 30 - 40 minutes.

Thanks!
Old 11-04-2006, 04:57 PM
  #5132  
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Fiirst of all you need to set it up with a real prop, not a popsickle stick, say an APC 14x6 so it will run in its best power band, it will simply be too difficult to set up with no load on it. Same goes for too much load.
Old 11-04-2006, 05:07 PM
  #5133  
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Well I was just getting it run in. Quite a few are running it with 14x4w APCs, but from the numbers I'm seeing I may put my 15x4w on it to keep it in the mid-9k RPMs.

I'm going to mount it on my plane tonight, and tomorrow I'll tune it to about 500-700 rpm rich for the first gallon.
Old 11-04-2006, 07:30 PM
  #5134  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Your engine should be fine, given that you had already ran a few tanks rich prior - break-in would have been completed by then. Which fuel are you using? With 20% nitro, maybe you want to consider a 15x4W. I run 15% nitro with a 14x4W on my 82. 10200 rpm peak, richened to 9700 rpm. With the IB reg, you would have to re-tune the lo and hi ends.
Old 11-04-2006, 10:38 PM
  #5135  
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I run a homebrew, 20% nitro, 12% synthetic 3% castor. I really like how this fuel runs in my engines.

Yeah, almost 11k RPM is way too high, and I haven't even leaned the needle yet. A 15x4w should be perfect.

I really, really love how the IB unit makes my engines runs.
Old 11-04-2006, 11:00 PM
  #5136  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

I would highly recommend at least 18% oil
Old 11-04-2006, 11:58 PM
  #5137  
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I would run it without a regulator. The engine should continue to break in even more. Some take a gallon, some take more. Saitos don't smoke like other 4 strokes, so you can't really go by the smoke trail. Run it rich, say 500 or so RPM, but don't run it too rich. Don't forget to start leaning out the low speed needle valve as this is the cause of many problems when set too rich or too lean.
Old 11-05-2006, 12:02 AM
  #5138  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

RVM..I second rajul, you should have at least 18% oil.

as far as you engine leaning out all of a sudden and then being ok later.... i have had this happen also and now what i do when i see it happening i do just what you did, open up the needles and this can loosen up any debris that has made its way into the carb and partialy pluged it up(rev it up a few times with the needles open to clean it out ) then re-set the needles and all seems to go away and your engine runs fine
Old 11-05-2006, 12:40 AM
  #5139  
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Well, as far as the oil goes, there are plenty of Europeans running their Saitos with 10%-12% synthetic only. Also, an entire club uses this fuel almost exclusively for their 4-strokes (except YS) and has no excessive wear nor do any of them have any oil related problems. I add 4oz. of castor for a little extra protection, and this brings total oil content to 15%.

Why would I run the engine unregulated?
Old 11-05-2006, 12:53 AM
  #5140  
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There still remains the mystery of how you are pressurizing your tank to run the Iron Bay Regulator? Maybe I missed way on up the way somewhere?
Old 11-05-2006, 03:10 AM
  #5141  
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Muffler pressure.

I have the tank a good 25cm or more from the carb so I have to have it.
Old 11-05-2006, 06:49 AM
  #5142  
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Are you using a check valve in the muffler pressure line?
Old 11-05-2006, 10:04 AM
  #5143  
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RVM,

Yes, I've read where some people think that is ok. There is no margin for error with low oil content. Saito recommended 20% oil but probably lowered their suggested amount when some fuel companies lowered theirs to 18%. I don't believe some European claims that certain synthetic brands offer the protection of castor. One person pushes that point of view, but he makes his money distributing it.
Old 11-05-2006, 10:43 AM
  #5144  
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Hi all. I don't have a Saito yet but really want one. I'm retired and funds are tight. I found this on eBay and am wondering if I should get it and try to rebuild it.
Thanks, Larry

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA:IT&ih=017
Old 11-05-2006, 10:51 AM
  #5145  
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B, that one looks hopeless but others may think differently, I'm a 100% "the cup is half full" guy but I don't think I'd chance that one.
Old 11-05-2006, 11:25 AM
  #5146  
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Parts will cost you $64.50

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...rodID=SAI10032 $4.49

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...rodID=SAI10039 $4.99

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...rodID=SAI10040 $9.99

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...rodID=SAI10069 $22.99

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...odID=SAI10091A $3.99

Bearings about $14 total inc shipping http://www.mcintoshcentral.com/rc-be...8fa5c4c427f08e

This is going to cost you a total of $190 for this engine. You might could find a good used one for less money?
Old 11-05-2006, 11:33 AM
  #5147  
William Robison
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Larry:

Not a bad price, but a basket case for your first Saito engine doesn't sound like a good idea to me. If you have a local buddy with experience servicing Saito engines that's a different matter.

His estimate on parts cost though, I think is from "La-La" land. The "Cam follower bushings" he mentions means a new cam mounting box, his total is too low to cover new bearings, and there is the possibility of a bent crank shaft as well. And then if the case is cracked...

Provided the case and crank are good you will still come out with a good price, but lacking the familiarity with the engine you might also have a lot of frustration before it is running well.

I doubt you would be hurt at that price, even with a new case on the parts list the end cost will be lower than a new engine. At the same time, if you keep your eyes open you could well fine a running Saito under $200.

Bill.
Old 11-05-2006, 11:36 AM
  #5148  
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Yep!


ORIGINAL: w8ye

Are you using a check valve in the muffler pressure line?
Old 11-05-2006, 11:37 AM
  #5149  
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Then everything should be in order with your IB regulator.
Old 11-05-2006, 11:39 AM
  #5150  
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I didn't say that some synthetics had the same protection as castor. I just said there are quite a few people who run 10% - 14% straight synthetic with no problems.


ORIGINAL: blw

RVM,

Yes, I've read where some people think that is ok. There is no margin for error with low oil content. Saito recommended 20% oil but probably lowered their suggested amount when some fuel companies lowered theirs to 18%. I don't believe some European claims that certain synthetic brands offer the protection of castor. One person pushes that point of view, but he makes his money distributing it.

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