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Old 10-22-2022, 03:43 AM
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Yesterday as I was preparing the Saito 182 twin for a run today I thought that one of the cylinders was soft on compression. I pulled the left intake rocker cover and watched the intake valve open the close. I flipped the prop, the left felt normal. The right did not feel right. I pulled the left glow plug, then the right felt normal. The compression strokes are so close together,180 degrees that the right cylinder feels, "funny". I checked the timing of both cams, they are correct. No leaky valves so all must be well.
Old 10-22-2022, 04:02 AM
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Originally Posted by 1200SportsterRider
Yesterday as I was preparing the Saito 182 twin for a run today I thought that one of the cylinders was soft on compression. I pulled the left intake rocker cover and watched the intake valve open the close. I flipped the prop, the left felt normal. The right did not feel right. I pulled the left glow plug, then the right felt normal. The compression strokes are so close together,180 degrees that the right cylinder feels, "funny". I checked the timing of both cams, they are correct. No leaky valves so all must be well.
A bit odd. Are you sure the throttle was open?

I've observed similar weak/mushy compression on glow engines that have sitting around for a while. The rings can get gummed a little but after a bit of running the snappy compression returns.

I'll be tearing down my preowned 220 for inspection tomorrow. It's down on power, turning a Xoar 18x8 at only 7400 on gas. It should be turning a 20x8 at near that same rpm. Bearings are smooth, valve clearances are correct, valves seal tight, timing is correct but compression is mushy and not improving with run time. Even though it was only bench run when I got it the thing wreaked of castor. It may have a stuck ring. I may just order an RJM ring for it since I'm right there anyway.

Last edited by Glowgeek; 10-22-2022 at 04:17 AM.
Old 10-22-2022, 04:22 AM
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I guess I wasn't clear, when I removed the left glow plug that made the right cylinder compression feel normal. Keep us posted on the 220 please.
Old 10-22-2022, 04:26 AM
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Originally Posted by 1200SportsterRider
I guess I wasn't clear, when I removed the left glow plug that made the right cylinder compression feel normal. Keep us posted on the 220 please.
You were clear. The only way I can see that happening is if the throttle is closed i.e. the right cylinder pulling air through the left cylinder's intake tract, open intake valve and open glow plug hole. I'd have to check my even fire twin to see if that's possible, hard to visualize.

Last edited by Glowgeek; 10-22-2022 at 05:00 AM.
Old 10-22-2022, 05:23 AM
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Lonnie, you may not have to replace that ring. Simply cleaning the ring and more importantly the piston groove can often do the job, but you probably know that.
Those never flown, bench run only engines often suffer from burnishing. Simply cleaning and flying has worked often. Those factory rings are pretty good over the long haul.
Most of my engines have never spent any time on test stands.
Old 10-22-2022, 06:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Jesse Open
Lonnie, you may not have to replace that ring. Simply cleaning the ring and more importantly the piston groove can often do the job, but you probably know that.
Those never flown, bench run only engines often suffer from burnishing. Simply cleaning and flying has worked often. Those factory rings are pretty good over the long haul.
Most of my engines have never spent any time on test stands.
Yes, I know, thanks. Saito rings are fine pieces of work.

And yes, I've turned into a bit of a test stand junky the last couple of years. As Julie's dementia progressed she required (s) full time care, that means every minute at the field is precious.

Running engines at home is not a problem however, as long as I check on her 2 or 3 times an hour, so I've been running engines longer on the "jiggle" stand to minimize re-tuning at the field. I bring at least two planes, if one gives trouble I switch to another. Sadly, I can't even afford the time to chat with the boys at the field, I just fly, fly, fly and head home. Thankfully they understand my situation and don't get offended when I suddenly pack up and bug out.

BTW, that $24/hour homecare cost is a big driver in my switch to FG engines and gas conversions.

I hope all that makes sense.
Old 10-22-2022, 06:38 AM
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Oh yeah, well aware. Time is precious.
Old 10-22-2022, 08:42 AM
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I just ran the 182 for about 40 minutes and 16 oz of fuel, and as usual:
Wildcat 10% with 18% full syn.
APC 16 x 8
Glow plugs==(4) Glo-Devil 4c plugs
Exhaust====black Saito straight pipes with crimped ends
Max rpm after approximately 10 oz of fuel==8,650, 150 less than Clarence Lee's review
Idle, a rock steady 2,130 rpm
Those pipes are a little loud.
The air bleed screws are exactly even, though I did not count the turns nor observe them as I set them, they are both about 75% closed. That's more closed than I thought, but that's the sweet spot.

No pitchers was tooken.

Right air bleed screw half open and left air bleed screw half closed, now both are three quarters closed.
Old 10-22-2022, 08:49 AM
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Not sure if y'all heard but Buzz, owner of Morgan Fuels, (Cool Power, Omega and Sidewinder) passed a few weeks ago in a mid-air in the Denver area.

Old 10-22-2022, 08:58 AM
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Thanks Andy, I did not know that.
Old 10-22-2022, 02:45 PM
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Sorry to hear that. Morgans has been a trusted fuel for many years. Hopefully the tradition will carry on with the family.
Old 10-22-2022, 04:25 PM
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Apparently he was in a four seat Cessna 172 with a student and mid aired with a Sonex Xenos Home built.

Last edited by 1200SportsterRider; 10-22-2022 at 04:31 PM.
Old 10-22-2022, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by 1200SportsterRider
I just ran the 182 for about 40 minutes and 16 oz of fuel, and as usual:
Wildcat 10% with 18% full syn.
APC 16 x 8
Glow plugs==(4) Glo-Devil 4c plugs
Exhaust====black Saito straight pipes with crimped ends
Max rpm after approximately 10 oz of fuel==8,650, 150 less than Clarence Lee's review
Idle, a rock steady 2,130 rpm
Those pipes are a little loud.
The air bleed screws are exactly even, though I did not count the turns nor observe them as I set them, they are both about 75% closed. That's more closed than I thought, but that's the sweet spot.
Having to run rich to achieve a stable high idle like 2130 is an EXCELLENT sign that the engine will pick up some peak rpm as the rings fully seat and friction drops. Your peak rpm is already very good, it will only get better from there.

I would beg you to send it my way if I had the right plane to put it on.
Old 10-23-2022, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Glowgeek

I would beg you to send it my way if I had the right plane to put it on.

Hmmmm......

Hey Dave!

..........


Old 10-23-2022, 02:25 PM
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Two Dandies!
Old 10-23-2022, 02:44 PM
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Got a 170R3 on CDI with appx 8" Keleo ring. Think it would be a fit for that size plane?
Old 10-23-2022, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by 1200SportsterRider
I just ran the 182 for about 40 minutes and 16 oz of fuel, and as usual:
Wildcat 10% with 18% full syn.
APC 16 x 8
Glow plugs==(4) Glo-Devil 4c plugs
Exhaust====black Saito straight pipes with crimped ends
Max rpm after approximately 10 oz of fuel==8,650, 150 less than Clarence Lee's review
Idle, a rock steady 2,130 rpm
Those pipes are a little loud.
The air bleed screws are exactly even, though I did not count the turns nor observe them as I set them, they are both about 75% closed. That's more closed than I thought, but that's the sweet spot.

No pitchers was tooken.

Right air bleed screw half open and left air bleed screw half closed, now both are three quarters closed.

Oh, my disclaimer. I have to keep more alert. the other day when I said the 180 should turn an APC 17x8 at 8.800 to 9.000, I was thinking of the single cylinder engine


BTW, I didn't sleep in a hotel last night. but I did see Festus Haggen in the flesh once in my hometown. I was 5y/o.

Jim

Last edited by the Wasp; 10-23-2022 at 05:52 PM.
Old 10-23-2022, 06:41 PM
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Lucky you, Festus Haggen! Great singing voice there. Used to sing for some of the big bands also with the "Sons of the Pioneers" of "Cool Water" fame. Also in a few movies along the way.

Old 10-24-2022, 01:00 AM
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Those are beautiful looking planes. The 182, what to do, what to do? I am planning to run it again today on S&W 15% with 17% synthetic lube.

Amanda Blake was also a great singer, she had a smooth, soft, low voice, saw her on Hee Haw a couple of times. Leonard Slye/Roy Rogers also sang with the Sons of the Pioneers as a tenor..
Old 10-24-2022, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Jesse Open
Lucky you, Festus Haggen! Great singing voice there. Used to sing for some of the big bands also with the "Sons of the Pioneers" of "Cool Water" fame. Also in a few movies along the way.
I have to say that I feel "Festus" was the greatest TV character of all time. no one could act better.

Jim
Old 10-25-2022, 04:19 AM
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I have put together a few props for a friend he will get these except for the 16 x 8 Mejzlik. I no longer have the Saito 220 so maybe he can use them. The pretty white ones are Jen-C props from Just Engines, they are re-badged Biela's. The carbon fiber 18 x 8 is a ?. Maybe a Mejzlik also. On the 220 the Dyna Thrust 20 x 6 let it idle at 1,600 rpm, super smooth.

Last edited by 1200SportsterRider; 10-25-2022 at 04:33 AM.
Old 10-25-2022, 04:34 AM
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Your friend is going to be very happy!
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Old 10-25-2022, 05:27 AM
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Originally Posted by the Wasp
I have to say that I feel "Festus" was the greatest TV character of all time. no one could act better.

Jim
Dad, said Festus reminded him of an old neighbor back in the 1920s. He was a retired gunfighter and farmer. He was quite the character too.
Old 10-25-2022, 01:02 PM
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The director or directors let those people develop those characters as they saw them in their own minds. Doc and Festus really made winners out of theirs.

I'll of course have to give all the props I run on the 182 a run on the 180.
Old 10-25-2022, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by 1200SportsterRider
The director or directors let those people develop those characters as they saw them in their own minds. Doc and Festus really made winners out of theirs.

I'll of course have to give all the props I run on the 182 a run on the 180.
Well.......yeah!

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