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Old 11-07-2022, 04:49 AM
  #53226  
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Originally Posted by Glowgeek View Post

Big block Saitos do have a more durable valvetrain than the smaller Saitos, namely the tappets.

As mentioned on the other thread on RCG, counter rotation is not required for our model twin engine aircraft or full scale twin engine aircraft. Many twin engine aircraft do not use counter rotating engines.

Keep in mind That when a model manufacturer specifies a 2 stroke gasser 20cc-26cc engine an equivalent 4 stroke glow engine will need to be approx 1.2 times larger displacement to produce the same power. An equivalent 4 stroke gasser will need to be approx 1.4 times larger displacement.


Only you can say.
so the .20 - .26 in 4stroke language is .3 or so … in methonal. .35 in gas.

so

so the 150. or. 180 are the correct choice as to the cc conversion…. what happens when you go radial.

FA-200R3. - FG-33R3. Power Up or down ?
Old 11-07-2022, 04:58 AM
  #53227  
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Originally Posted by thefastfred View Post
so the .20 - .26 in 4stroke language is .3 or so … in methonal. .35 in gas.

so

so the 150. or. 180 are the correct choice as to the cc conversion…. what happens when you go radial.

FA-200R3. - FG-33R3. Power Up or down ?
More cylinders means more frictional losses. Do some searching on what props people are using on the engines you are considering. That will tell you a lot.

Old 11-07-2022, 06:24 AM
  #53228  
1200SportsterRider
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On a Saito 182 twin the distance from the crankshaft centerline to the top of the air bleed screws is 2.1875". I experimented with it on the Rascal 110 and there would have been very little cowl left.


Old 11-07-2022, 06:26 AM
  #53229  
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Originally Posted by Glowgeek View Post
That's a BEAUTUFUL sample!
It sure is Dave. I had three of them at one time. Had used one in a Pica 1/5 WACO biplane. Great matchup. Gave them away but don't recall who got them.
Extremely nice engines, many differences from the current big blocks. Most of the design changes in the new engines enhanced top end power and hugely cut costs (and weight).

Multi cylinder engines usually make up for added drag by being able to rev higher due to having smaller, lighter parts. Higher revs give a virtual higher displacement per unit of time.
The rev advantages tend to diminish as engines become smaller.
Old 11-07-2022, 06:30 AM
  #53230  
1200SportsterRider
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And, everybody forgets, more power pulses per minute.
Old 11-07-2022, 08:07 AM
  #53231  
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I just ran my Saito FA 30-s with a new RMJ piston ring.

Saito FA 30-s with new RMJ ring and Boca Bearings.
Fuel====S&W 15% with 17% full synthetic
Prop====Bolly 9.5 x 6
Plug====Glo-Devil 4c special
Exhaust==stock muffler
Max rpm after 8 oz fuel===11,200
Max after 10 oz of fuel===11,410 rock steady
Idle=======smooth, steady 2,400
The compression was a little mushy before running, unusual for an RMJ ring, now it is finger chasing snappy. It quit a couple of times at 5,500 while rich, once peaked it never stumbled at any rpm.

Running at 6,800 rpm

A few minutes later it read 11,410 rpm

RPM with a Xoar 10 x 5.

Last edited by 1200SportsterRider; 11-07-2022 at 08:16 AM. Reason: Add picture
Old 11-07-2022, 12:20 PM
  #53232  
the Wasp
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82, 91, 100 Tappet Question.
I had a set of tappets that had slots on the bottom of them, is Saito still making them like that? or is Saito doing something different today?

thanks!
Jim
Old 11-07-2022, 02:10 PM
  #53233  
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Originally Posted by the Wasp View Post
82, 91, 100 Tappet Question.
I had a set of tappets that had slots on the bottom of them, is Saito still making them like that? or is Saito doing something different today?

thanks!
Jim
The same tappets are used on 45S thru 125, sans the 120. I have seen many tappets but never with a slot on the bottom. Not Saito, OS, Enya, YS or any of their clones.
Old 11-07-2022, 02:12 PM
  #53234  
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Thanks for the 182 info Dave. Wow, that little FA30 is quite the whiz bang!
Old 11-07-2022, 02:18 PM
  #53235  
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Originally Posted by 1200SportsterRider View Post
A nice clean Fat Head 120.The Fat Head has 50 size valve springs and long skinny lifters


my 120 has springs that have an ID some 0.75mm larger than my 100 springs.
also, on my engine the bottom 4 fins are different than in Dave's pic above^

Jim
Old 11-07-2022, 02:39 PM
  #53236  
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Originally Posted by Glowgeek View Post
The same tappets are used on 45S thru 125, sans the 120. I have seen many tappets but never with a slot on the bottom. Not Saito, OS, Enya, YS or any of their clones.
well I have a set, but they are in my 100 that I moved the breather to the front. when I took the engine apart one of the tappets side was scratched so I ordered new tappets, and these new tappets had 5 grooves cut into their bottoms, the grooves were not deep at all, and pointed outward, the centers of the bottoms were left unmarked. I assumed these grooves helped by holding more oil. maybe there were something Saito was testing, and the excess simply went to market to unload.

Jim
Old 11-07-2022, 02:44 PM
  #53237  
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Originally Posted by the Wasp View Post
well I have a set, but they are in my 100 that I moved the breather to the front. when I took the engine apart one of the tappets side was scratched so I ordered new tappets, and these new tappets had 5 grooves cut into their bottoms, the grooves were not deep at all, and pointed outward, the centers of the bottoms were left unmarked. I assumed these grooves helped by holding more oil. maybe there were something Saito was testing, and the excess simply went to market to unload.

Jim
Pics, or it never happened...,.
Old 11-07-2022, 04:06 PM
  #53238  
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Originally Posted by Glowgeek View Post
Thanks for the 182 info Dave. Wow, that little FA30 is quite the whiz bang!
That's the reason for the pictures, I didn't want anyone to doubt. The Xoar 10 x 5 picture is a different 30 that I sold and before my TNC got rained on.

Older FA 30-s turning a Xoar 10 x 5.
Old 11-07-2022, 06:52 PM
  #53239  
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Originally Posted by Glowgeek View Post
Pics, or it never happened...,.
LOL don't say that. I don't want to reopen her up!

Jim
Old 11-07-2022, 07:40 PM
  #53240  
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I saw a fathead for sale:

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...4-cycle-Engine
Old 11-07-2022, 08:44 PM
  #53241  
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Originally Posted by the Wasp View Post
LOL don't say that. I don't want to reopen her up!

Jim
Is it going on a plane or just a few runs on the wood block?
Old 11-08-2022, 12:35 PM
  #53242  
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Originally Posted by Jesse Open View Post
Is it going on a plane or just a few runs on the wood block?
LOL both.
Old 11-09-2022, 04:53 AM
  #53243  
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My recently acquired low time 180 GK ran fine for 2 tanks then started squeling/screeching/chirping. A high pitch metal on metal sound. Thought that maybe the front bearing inner rubber seal had come off or the ring had cracked. Nope, everything inside looks perfectly normal. Hmmmmm.
Old 11-09-2022, 02:56 PM
  #53244  
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I mounted my new cam to the 91's cam housing. it only took me about 3 hours.... 3 hours you say. LOL yes 3 hours.

the first time I mounted the cam to its housing there was a noticeable amount of back & forth lash in the cam. I was thinking that can't be very good for the tappets.
so I had the thought "hey, I have the 100GK shims. let's check them".
so I could see that the 100GK shims are slightly thicker than the 91 shims. so I tried to put the cam back in the housing and use 1 of the GK washers,,,, no go. the cam wouldn't fit in.
hey, I have a brand-new fine-tooth file. so how do you file the thickness down on a rather small washer? very carefully!
so I file down the thicker washer. check the thickness to make sure the washer is flat. Shazam, surprise surpise its flat. so I mount the cam again. but it was kind of tight. I could not feel any lash. yet it turned good and smooth. if I spun the cam it only turned over about 3 times. so I thought "no lash no oil for the shims"
so I removed the cam again and filed on the washer again. check it. its flat. so I mounted the cam again. this time I could feel and see a bit of back lash and it turned even smoother. I must have taken up 1/2 the back lash.
I was able to measure the backlash. it's right at 0.010"~~~~~~~~~ "how did I do that?"
later tonight I will mount the cam housing to the case.

and tomorrow I will mount the cylinder. thanks to our good friend Lonnie!!

EDIT; cam hosing now mounted to the case.

Jim

Last edited by the Wasp; 11-09-2022 at 06:42 PM.
Old 11-09-2022, 07:30 PM
  #53245  
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Originally Posted by the Wasp View Post
LOL both.


Twice the fun!
Good on you
Old 11-14-2022, 07:02 PM
  #53246  
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well guys, I mounted the cylinder on the 91 case Friday. it went together with no problems. and I installed the rockers today. so she has a new cam, new tappets, and new rockers. and the cylinders is very nice.
she turns nice and smooth. I will have to put a plug in her tomorrow and check the compression.
to add. a while back I bought some 91 gaskets off RCG. the guy sent me the gaskets and a BSNIP (Brand Spanking New In the Package) ring. the ring on the piston looked brand new, so I got out my calipers and measured the width of the band in 3 places, and I measured the new ring. the band on the piston's ring was 0.002 larger so I used it.

sO thanks to Capt and Lonnie and about $90 I have a real nice Saito 91 for my son's midget racer.
Jim
hummm. didn't Horizon for a time suggest to burn 30% Nitro in Saito's ? you know I still have 3 gallons of 30% Heli fuel with 20% oil ; ). naa, that won't be any fun.

Last edited by the Wasp; 11-14-2022 at 07:07 PM.
Old 11-15-2022, 02:49 AM
  #53247  
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Horizon did that indeed, now everybody thinks that Saitos require 30% nitro methane, nothing could be further from the truth. They run very well on 0%, 5%, I ran mine on 10% for many years, I just recently bought a gallon of S&W 15% with 17% full syn. Good job Jim.
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Old 11-15-2022, 03:10 AM
  #53248  
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Nice work Jim. With all the new parts I would put the 91 through Dave's standard 40 min break in procedure for a new engine.
Old 11-15-2022, 06:27 AM
  #53249  
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Saito suggested the 30% nitro in an attempt to compete with YS power.
Of course 30% is in no way required. Then again, you don't need 20% for YS either.
Old 11-15-2022, 06:34 AM
  #53250  
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If I could afford 30% Heli fuel I have a couple of Saito powered planes that could use the kick in the pants. They fly OK on 15%, so good nuff.

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