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Old 01-02-2009, 01:47 AM
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ORIGINAL: RC Specialties

OF,

They have not gone into production yet. The prototypes are still being tested. I hope to have them available soon. Things look very promising as a replacement for the stock muffler.

Thank you Dave for some field testing.

Jim
Jim can you definitely put me down for one?
Old 01-02-2009, 01:49 AM
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ORIGINAL: Old Fart


ORIGINAL: RC Specialties

OF,

They have not gone into production yet. The prototypes are still being tested. I hope to have them available soon. Things look very promising as a replacement for the stock muffler.

Thank you Dave for some field testing.

Jim
Jim can you definitely put me down for one?
Woops fingeritis problems.Can you give me one for the 82 as well and let me know what the shipping costs are.
Old 01-02-2009, 06:17 AM
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OF,

I will send you a PM.

Jim
Old 01-02-2009, 09:09 AM
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Charlie, the shake is caused by Tortional Impulses which are the result of the widely spaced power strokes and light engine, a poorly set LS needle as you saw exaggerates it and spreads it out. It will be in a different rpm for each thing you bolt it onto. A heavier prop will diminish it quite a bit as would making the engine heavier. I never use wood props on a fourstroke for that reason, light prop = shaky and poor idle.
Old 01-02-2009, 11:21 AM
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ORIGINAL: chashint
Normally I never take anything apart unless there is a compelling reason to do so, but I may check the valves just to see where they are at right now.
Checking and setting valves should never be considered as taking things apart. It is normal maintenance, just like changing glow plugs, props, etc.
Old 01-02-2009, 12:39 PM
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That's a very good point, Barry.

Adjusting valves is like adjusting the carb needles. It is something to be studied and mastered and it is an excellent entry point for those lacking in engine experience.


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Old 01-02-2009, 01:41 PM
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Gentlemen,

Below is the original problem I posted. Many fine suggestions were offered and tried but I still had the problem.

The problem is now solved. It was a bonehead (me) that caused the problem.

Before I tell you all how boneheaded an error I made, here's my list of excuses right up front.

It's my first Saito, I was late to pick up my mother at the bus station, it was 11pm, I had more than one beer that eveing, there was a football game on.

Here's the problem, after removing the new engine from the box I very wisely checked to make sure all bolts and screws were tight. That included making sure the idle needle valve was tight!

I apparently imagined that this screw secured the thottle arm. Once discovered and properly set to factory setting, the Saito ran beautifully and is now undergoing its break-in.

If a couple of you guys would reply with something like "oh heck, we've all done that lotsa times" it would make me feel a lot better.

Thanks to all, Club Saito is a great resource for bonehead members.



ORIGINAL: leedees

I am having a problem, I hope someone can help.

I picked up a brand new Saito 56 GK, my first 4 cycle. I mounted the engine in my 80" Hangar 9 J-3, replacing an Evolution 46.

Trying to break in the motor, I am having a problem keeping the engine running. It will start after priming and run 3-4 seconds until the prime is exhausted. Re-priming equals the same problem, starts then stops. Needle valve is open 2.5 turns per the manual, I have tried it open another half turn and closed another half turn.

It doesn't speed up like it went lean, it just slows down and stops.

Glow plug good and also tight, new fuel, igniter charged and left on the engine after starting, fuel line has all been replaced and there's no bubbles in the fuel. Even removed the fuel filter and ran straight fuel line. Pressure line is a little long, about 5 inches but it has been replaced too.

It is a two line fuel tank and fuel will flow out of the feed line by gravity alone.

Very grateful for any suggestions.
Old 01-02-2009, 02:45 PM
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ORIGINAL: blw


ORIGINAL: chashint

Right now I say this engine is a winner even with the 'violent' shaking at 2.3k maybe it will settle down completely with the final LSN adjustment, but if not ......... HAHA ... I don't need no stinking 2.3k rpm anyway
Yes, they will shake just like you said!!!!! Someone just said they never use a test stand, and my 1.25 would have either broken that habit or the model it was bolted on to!!!


If you are refering to my post # 13171, first off and for your info I always make sure that my props are always balanced correctly before they're installed. Secondly I do not overload the engine with large props until it is perfectly run in. Thirdly I make sure that my fuel is fresh. There are a number of things why an engine vibrates, which most times people overlook. Running an engine on test stands is a preference to some. I do not consider myself a Saito expert and have never had fuselages come apart on me, so I must be doing something right. I follow the basic rules of running an engine. If your preference to overload with large props than I can see why your engines vibrate and fuselages come apart. I do not see any hard rules of "How to run in an engine". There's always a bit of vibration on these little engines no matter what. Some inexperienced modelers compound this by installing larger diameter and wider props than recommended by engine manufacturers. I'm not saying that test stands are not essential because they are. On 3 cylinders plus especially. Which I don't have, but I wish I had one, then again I'm not Donald Trump.
Old 01-02-2009, 03:56 PM
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ORIGINAL: chashint


ORIGINAL: blw
Charlie, my 1.25 smoothed out just fine around the 4th tank of fuel. It's a very smooth running engine now.
This one has a full gallon of the Omega fuel through it plus 24 oz of my 'home brew concoction'.
It may change with more run time but I figure it is what it is at this point.
I know that this is not the same as OS and Magnum, but I have several of them and they were all stable after this much fuel.
The Saito 125 has widely varying reports of peak rpm and is also described as runs like a clock to it vibrates all its screws loose.
The only experience I have with this particular engine is the one I have in front of me, I am pleased with the peak rpm and while I would like for it to not shake at all it only does it in a 100 rpm window, while I find this a little strange I did see the size of this window change with LSN adjustment. So while I am firmly convinced that I have the LSN adjusted correctly there may still be some wiggle room there.
Normally I never take anything apart unless there is a compelling reason to do so, but I may check the valves just to see where they are at right now.
Thanks to you and everyone else that has followed along, it was fun run the new engine.
Have you changed the glowplug? If the engine vibrates in the transition from the idle it may be that the plug is too cold or worn out. Try a new OS-F glow plug.
Old 01-02-2009, 04:50 PM
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LeeDees,

I don't think that there is any one of us who cannot say that we've "been there, done that".

Bob
Old 01-02-2009, 06:23 PM
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ORIGINAL: Hobbsy

Charlie, the shake is caused by Tortional Impulses which are the result of the widely spaced power strokes and light engine, a poorly set LS needle as you saw exaggerates it and spreads it out. It will be in a different rpm for each thing you bolt it onto. A heavier prop will diminish it quite a bit as would making the engine heavier. I never use wood props on a fourstroke for that reason, light prop = shaky and poor idle.
That is an enlightening statement, wood props are lighter and can equal a shaky and poor idle on a four stroke. I wish that were not true as the wood props look so good on my Cub with the Saito 56.

The Evolution props seem to be popular in my club but I never asked why.
Old 01-02-2009, 07:25 PM
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Theoretically you are right bob but people who come right out and say it are rare as rockinghorse s##t..count 'em up when you look back thru the posts

Leedees you da man!
You sure that 56 will haul an 80" cub around??
Old 01-02-2009, 08:34 PM
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Any body have Data on what a Saito 82 should trun a APC 14X4W Prop at RPM wise. I just ran mine and get about 9500 t0 9600 max. I'm also having a problem with idle dosen't want to idle below 3000 without a really bad vibration. Any help is appreciated.

Jim
Old 01-03-2009, 01:06 AM
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ORIGINAL: Old Fart

Theoretically you are right bob but people who come right out and say it are rare as rockinghorse s##t..count 'em up when you look back thru the posts

Leedees you da man!
You sure that 56 will haul an 80" cub around??

I sure hope so. Although the 56 was in the low end of the recommended range for 4 stroke engines in this Hangar 9 plane. I have seen some video of this setup so maybe it will do OK. Many fly them with .46 2 strokes.
Old 01-03-2009, 01:10 AM
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You will find the 56 to be the perfect engine for the H-9 Cub

I had a 50 in the older style H-9 Cub and it was a joy to fly.
Old 01-03-2009, 12:36 PM
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OF, here is my worst bone head play, in a ham fisted FarmBoy moment I busted the threaded intake boss right off of my old high compression Saito 1.50. I was concerned that a newer cylinder would lower the compression but luckily it didn't. It was a $114.00 lesson in humility.
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Old 01-03-2009, 05:27 PM
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Everyone should have an 8x10 of that image posted in plain sight at their engine disassembly station. If this can happen to Dave....


Ed Cregger
Old 01-03-2009, 06:53 PM
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Help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I just put new ceramics in my 100 from rc bearings and the front bearing leaks really bad, will it stop? also will this thing run if the timing is off? I think its good but it is spitting tons of raw fuel out of the carb and it seems to vibrate alot more! Could this be timing?
Old 01-03-2009, 06:56 PM
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OUCH! dave,makes my nuts ache just looking at the picture.Did you get thru the entire a to z of your strong language dictionary?

Does anyone else have piccys of similar events? maybe we could start a "how i butchered my beautiful saito engine by"...

ps commiserations mate
Old 01-03-2009, 08:25 PM
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I'm presuming that you've made all the usual basic adjustments about leaning the HS needle in, etc.

I can't speak to the bearings leaking (did you get the right kind? Some are sealed, some aren't - I forget the type that are called for here), but my guess is that the carb spitting and the leaky front bearing are probably related, and yes, it could very well be timing.

It's been a while since I had one apart but I remember a 'divot' in the cam that you could 'pin' using an intake tube for alignment until you got things lined up for reassembly. Even being off by a single tooth could cause this to happen.

Page 8 of one of the Saito manuals http://www.horizonhobby.com/ProdInfo...der_Manual.pdf describes lining up the marks for timing. My memory is foggy right now, but if I had an engine apart, it would probably be very obvious after having done this once.

Just my $.02. I hope that this helps,

Bob
Old 01-03-2009, 08:37 PM
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I did use the hole to make sure the cam mark was straight down when the piston was TDC. Maybe its one tooth off! the cam mark goes srtaight down, correct?
Old 01-03-2009, 08:48 PM
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One way to check your timing with taking anymore than you have too apart. remove the valve covers

Turn the engine over and find top dead center on the compression stroke

Now turn the prop one full turn and you should be top dead center on the overlap stroke

Both valves should be just partially open, one closing and one opening. To look at the engine from the side, the rocker arms should be level with each other across their tops
Old 01-03-2009, 08:50 PM
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yes the cam mark goes straight down

After you get it running decent we'll evaluate the seals in the front beaqring
Old 01-03-2009, 09:09 PM
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I had read your previous thread and the rocker arms are straight and level across. What would I find if the timing was off? This motor runs great exept for the vibration and the raw fuel at the carb!
Old 01-03-2009, 09:32 PM
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Your cam timing must be OK?

But if you have the intake valve just slightly too tight, there is going to be blow back at the carb and the engine is going to be juicy. This will also happen if the valve or lifter are sticking a little.

apparently your cam timing is OK

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