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Old 02-14-2009, 10:52 PM
  #13851  
w8ye
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The secret is to have the idle as lean as possible and still get good transition to high speed.

So lean the needle 1/8th turn at a time until you no longer get good transition to high speed. Then open it back up just enough to get good throttle transition
Old 02-14-2009, 10:56 PM
  #13852  
w8ye
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

There are times when the tolerances of your carb parts are wrong and the ideal cannot be achieved. You can screw the idle needle all the way in and the engine is still noticeably rich, you have a rich mid range and the high speed is perfect.

In this case you have to put a repair kit and new LS needle valve in your carb
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...odID=SAI91S144 <this is out of stock you can get the pieces below
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...dID=SAI91S122B
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...odID=SAI130T89
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...odID=SAI91S91A
Old 02-14-2009, 10:57 PM
  #13853  
w8ye
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ORIGINAL: mike109

G'day again W8 This is getting rather away from Saitos but a mate of mine flies a full size Daliare Sportster with an old Open Rocker 60. He swings a 14 or 15 inch Bolly Carbon Fiber prop on it at about 2000 RPM. It has a modified Cox 049 TD needle valve assembly with a ram tube/venturi about 4 inches long with the little Cox needle assembly about half way along. This is for the Texaco event where the amount of fuel is limited by a formula which takes in the area of the flying surfaces and the weight of the whole plane. It just ticks away as it floats off and up and up as it gradually becomes a dot in the sky. Amazing to watch. That plane really flies on its wing.

The Butterfly is an amazing aeroplane for a small four stroke. The instructions say a 15 size engine and a small four stroke produces about the same power as a standard OS 15 so I thought I would give it a try. With a 10 x 4 it was perfect. Less so with a 9 x 6. It could stay up for about an hour on a 4 OZ tank at just above idle. That plane taught me to use the sticks as I could putter around for hours on end chasing thermals. All the emphasis these days seems to be on speed and power. At my age, I like slow and graceful better.
My friend with the Butterfly replaced the OS 26 with my Thunder Tiger 07. We traded

That old 60 should have been just right on the Dallaire

I think the Dallaire is the greatest of all the ones I've been around but I'm sure there are other good ones

My friends fly as you do. They just idle around and stay up forever. One lives in Alabama and the other in Utah
Old 02-15-2009, 01:17 AM
  #13854  
mrbill76
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Thank you for the help and your time my friend. I will sleep on it and tackle it again when the day is new. I only hit the bottom of the screw seat once, but thought it was odd that it was only 3/4 turn in from where it was at yet still seemed rich, and the manual never says how many turns out it was at when it left the factory, they only say they have pre-set it for you to be rich for break in. So it would have been nice to always be able to return to this for a starting point again, but I guess they thought that would be too much information unlike other motor makers that usually put that info in the book. Thanks again.
Old 02-15-2009, 02:25 AM
  #13855  
w8ye
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

On the Saito 82 the needle comes flush with the outer surface of the throttle arm from the factory
Old 02-15-2009, 04:38 AM
  #13856  
N429EM
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Club SAITO help?

I will be putting an FA91fs into a pattern plane, and would like to move the fuel tank back to the C of G. Or, as close as possible.
Assuming I will need a pump, what would be the best plumbing arrangement, using a VP-20 Perry Pump?

TIA,
EJ
Old 02-15-2009, 04:56 AM
  #13857  
Rudolph Hart
 
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Hi mike if i had your open rocker 65 i'd bang it into an se5a,i like your style of flying.
cheers peter
Old 02-15-2009, 08:32 AM
  #13858  
w8ye
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !


ORIGINAL: N429EM

Club SAITO help?

I will be putting an FA91fs into a pattern plane, and would like to move the fuel tank back to the C of G. Or, as close as possible.
Assuming I will need a pump, what would be the best plumbing arrangement, using a VP-20 Perry Pump?

TIA,
EJ
The best system would be the Cline

While the VP-20 might possibly work for you it would be the the cheapest easiest way
Old 02-15-2009, 06:01 PM
  #13859  
blw
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ORIGINAL: w8ye

There is a guy that BLW and I have flown with that has several old time R/C assisted free flights. They all have smaller four strokes. He also has a full size Dallaire with a ASP 65 four stroke. It has a little more power. Takes the plane for a whirl.

I cannot remember the names of the others right now.

The guy that owned my OS 26 before me used the engine on a Butterfly

The other one is a Playboy. Henry also has something along the lines of a Playboy that he recovered after getting it from Larry Corser right before he died. It flies great.

Don't even think that I've forgiven you for letting him have that ASP .65 either. I've asked him to will it to me on several occasions.
Old 02-15-2009, 06:16 PM
  #13860  
mike109
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

G'day BLW My first oldtimer was a Playboy Senior (I think the original Playboy was actually quite small and the senior was about 150%) It was a very pretty aircraft with its large elliptical polyhedral wing. It was also built as a dihedral version and this is the one the "experts" build these days as they reckon it has a better glide angle.
Old 02-15-2009, 08:51 PM
  #13861  
w8ye
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There were a couple different Playboy Jr's a 44" and 56"
Then the 80" Sr and the Cabin

This one in the vid is electric but you get the idea
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLxipnkDFQc
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Old 02-15-2009, 11:13 PM
  #13862  
ECSAILOR
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I have a Saito FA 100 on an old Staudacker 60 by CG, swings a 15+6 prop. My only saito, but I am sold.
Old 02-15-2009, 11:17 PM
  #13863  
w8ye
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The Saito 100's are real sweethearts
Old 02-15-2009, 11:21 PM
  #13864  
w8ye
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ORIGINAL: blw


ORIGINAL: w8ye

There is a guy that BLW and I have flown with that has several old time R/C assisted free flights. They all have smaller four strokes. He also has a full size Dallaire with a ASP 65 four stroke. It has a little more power. Takes the plane for a whirl.

I cannot remember the names of the others right now.

The guy that owned my OS 26 before me used the engine on a Butterfly

The other one is a Playboy. Henry also has something along the lines of a Playboy that he recovered after getting it from Larry Corser right before he died. It flies great.

Don't even think that I've forgiven you for letting him have that ASP .65 either. I've asked him to will it to me on several occasions.
This guy that BLW and I are referring to with the Playboy also takes plans up to the print shop and reduces them and makes whatever size he wants. He has reduced a Robinhood 99 to a 70 with my old Magnum 61 four stroke and he also has a Robinhood 50 with a Saito 30 Golden Knight
Old 02-16-2009, 02:54 AM
  #13865  
NM2K
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Something I have never understood is why folks will go to all of the trouble that your friend has to alter a standard design, when they are doing almost all of the work that it would take to build their own designs.

I'm not above borrowing from other designers, but most times I even design my own airfoil, just so the design will truly be "mine". Different strokes, I suppose.


Ed Cregger
Old 02-16-2009, 09:09 AM
  #13866  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

MrB, here is the LS needle on my .82, I have a set procedure I use to set the LS needles on fourstrokes. I came up with it so I could keep track of what I was doing. I set the HS needle at full throttle and absolute peak, leave it there temporarily. Now procede to lean the LS needle 1/8th turn at a time checking the transition and top rpm after every other change, at some point one of the 1/8th turn changes will make more difference than the previous ones. You're getting close. Be willing to settle for the best transition as opposed to the slowest idle. The first time you do this you'll think its too involved but after that its a no brainer.
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Old 02-16-2009, 09:11 AM
  #13867  
w8ye
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Idle is but a compromise between lowest speed and transition to high speed
Old 02-16-2009, 09:17 AM
  #13868  
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ORIGINAL: blw


ORIGINAL: Ed Cregger N2ECW

I long for the old days, when there was no hazardous materials shipping charge. Then buying fuel via mail or phone call was easy and you saved money.
Ed Cregger

I think that the flashpoint of nitro is only 4 degrees above the minimum limits of the hazardous classification.
You're probably right. I was internet searching for mixing materials and found Klotz sells a mix of 22% oil and 78% nitro to be used to increase the nitro % in your existing fuel . No hazmat shipping charges. Must be the added oil drops the flashpoint below the limit.

I found the nitro and Methanol in Phoenix and the Klotz online. I could mix 10% for $16/gallon while I pay nearly $30 tax included at the local hobby shop. I still might go that way because I can mix different mixes depending on what I'm flying. I have a Moki 1.8 that uses FAI which I could mix for $10/ galon or less.

Dave
Old 02-16-2009, 11:44 AM
  #13869  
JimOverbury
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Hi,

I have a '56, '62, '72 and a 100 V twin. The latter is not in an aeroplane as I can't find something suitable to put it in front of! It has been in a trainer to air test it (as seen on you tube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qln0v26kx3o ) but I only made the one test flight as it is not a serious proposition. Anyone got any good ideas for an aeroplane which will fit this heavy, long, but wonderful engine?
Old 02-16-2009, 02:18 PM
  #13870  
w8ye
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I didn't know they sounded like the tribe shouting? I thought they sounded a little bit like a Harley

Why not just keep it on the trainer. It seems to handle the extra weight OK.
Old 02-16-2009, 07:35 PM
  #13871  
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ORIGINAL: JimOverbury

Hi,

I have a '56, '62, '72 and a 100 V twin. The latter is not in an aeroplane as I can't find something suitable to put it in front of! It has been in a trainer to air test it (as seen on you tube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qln0v26kx3o ) but I only made the one test flight as it is not a serious proposition. Anyone got any good ideas for an aeroplane which will fit this heavy, long, but wonderful engine?
Hangar 9's .60 size P-51 would be a good candidate.
Old 02-16-2009, 08:06 PM
  #13872  
w8ye
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The engine was intended for a 60 size scale warbird with the inline engine.

Sad to say that currently Horizon doesn't carry the engine
Old 02-17-2009, 02:18 PM
  #13873  
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Hi. I have two 45's a .80 and a 270 twin. They are all sitting in a drawer right now. The 45s have been in a number of planes includubg a 900 squae inch Record Hound SAM type which got me 4th place in texaco glow at the 2005 SAM champs in Las Vegas. The 80 has been in a number of planes, the last being a Big Boys? ARF Mauler with a bomb drop. Last flight I watched the bomb drop instead of the plane and crashed about 50 feet past where the bomb hit. The 270 has been run but never in a plane. It turns a 20 X 10 prop at about 6200 rpm which is about 700 slower than my ST3000. Not sure what I am going to put it in. I had a 65 which pulled a 7 pound old timer up at about 45 degrees but I gave the 65 to my buddy.

Don
Old 02-19-2009, 07:16 PM
  #13874  
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Hello

I have a saito 82 and 70 they are great engines but what would you recomend for the breather nipple. I just don't like having so much oil over my planes
Old 02-19-2009, 07:22 PM
  #13875  
w8ye
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Run a fuel line from the breather nipple to a convenient point to get the mess away from the plane

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