Notices
Glow Engines Discuss RC glow engines

Welcome to Club SAITO !

Old 05-14-2009, 06:45 PM
  #14726  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Santa Rita do Sapucai, BRAZIL
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

I think I do the break in the door of the hospital then.
Old 05-14-2009, 08:19 PM
  #14727  
My Feedback: (23)
 
GaGeeBees's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Fayetteville, GA
Posts: 1,413
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !


ORIGINAL: thiagopivoto

I think I do the break in the door of the hospital then.
That'll save time! LOL
Old 05-14-2009, 08:46 PM
  #14728  
My Feedback: (7)
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Scottsdale IL
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

I have a Saito 150 I am putting in a KMP P-51B Mustang and would like to go with a 3 blade prop. The plane will weigh about 14 LBS. Has anyone have a similar set up? I would like to know what size and pitch prop to use, also what brand.
Thanks, RON
Old 05-14-2009, 08:51 PM
  #14729  
Senior Member
 
VeeAte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Geraldton, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 1,549
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

This might help.

http://www.zingerpropeller.com/_2_blade_.htm

You dont have to run a Zinger prop. But it is a handy reference to tell what size 3 or 4 blade prop to use.
Find the 2 blade prop the engine manufacturer recommends then look across the table for a 3 or 4 blade.

Old 05-14-2009, 09:18 PM
  #14730  
My Feedback: (5)
 
jeffEE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Lakeille MN
Posts: 1,572
Received 11 Likes on 11 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

I think that the only problem with my Saito 2.20 is that it is TOO QUIET! I get it up in the air and a big stinky gas motor fires up. I can't here the soft purr of my Saito over the racket. Boy man-o-man, can this thing haul the mail!
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Sq46144.jpg
Views:	22
Size:	1,008.2 KB
ID:	1198341  
Old 05-14-2009, 09:28 PM
  #14731  
My Feedback: (102)
 
Hobbsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Colonial Beach, VA
Posts: 20,370
Likes: 0
Received 25 Likes on 25 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

This guy would be about perfect.

http://www.hobby-lobby.com/15x8_prop...e_402_prd1.htm
Old 05-15-2009, 05:12 AM
  #14732  
My Feedback: (23)
 
GaGeeBees's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Fayetteville, GA
Posts: 1,413
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

NICE fokkin' Fokker! B-USA kit? I agree with you about those obnoxious gas engines. My buddies fly G-38's and Quadra 35's and it sounds like weed whacker day at the local golf course when they all get cranked up. You might talk to Kelvin at Keleo Creations about building a scale exhaust for you, that would "louden" things up a little.
Old 05-15-2009, 05:58 AM
  #14733  
Senior Member
My Feedback: (14)
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Ringgold, GA
Posts: 11,488
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

It's not the gas engine that is at fault. Two stroke gas engines have a lot of unburned fuel being purged from the engine, which then does burn. Burning makes a high temperature exhaust stream, high temp makes high pressure, high pressure makes high sound level. What is needed are better designed and utilized mufflers. It is not a simple task to make such a muffler affordable and usably small in size.


Ed Cregger
Old 05-15-2009, 07:07 AM
  #14734  
 
Rudolph Hart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Perth, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 4,383
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !


ORIGINAL: w8ye

If you can accurately hold it in the center of the crankshaft as it rotates.

This is a dangerous procedure
A commendable understatement,thankyou
Old 05-15-2009, 08:34 PM
  #14735  
 
abufletcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Zentsuji, JAPAN
Posts: 15,019
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

I posted this in the Puppeteer thread in the Kit Building forum but here it is again. On the last of six flights the other day, my Saito 56 which had been running absolutely beautifully sagged and died just before take-off. And I wasn't able to get it started again. No, that's not quite right. It always starts right up. But always dies at full throttle.

The next day I had a new fresh can of fuel (which I had suspected might be part of the problem) but it's the same thing. Here are the symptoms: 1) idles a bit higher than usual 2) good revs at middle throttle 3) sags considerably in the top 1/3 of the throttle and then dies 4) after even a short run engine seems hotter than normal and there's some smoke coming off the muffler (which I don't usually see). All this suggests to me that maybe it's running lean, but how does an engine suddenly from one flight to the next, runs lean when it's been flying beautifully all day?
Old 05-15-2009, 08:36 PM
  #14736  
 
abufletcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Zentsuji, JAPAN
Posts: 15,019
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

The strange thing is that I had really started to trust this engine and several of the guys at the field had even commented on how great this engine was running, including our resident Saito expert. It seemed absolutely rock solid and I haven't had to touch the needle and haven't experienced a single deadstick.

But...this WAS an engine that I was having problems with in the past and sent it back to Saito to have the bearings replaced. And I had pulled it out of the Puppeteer previously to run it on a test stand and found a greater than usual amount of oil pooling during a run.

So air leaks? Where do they occur and how does one deal with them? Honestly, I'm also feeling like replacing the engine!
Old 05-15-2009, 08:37 PM
  #14737  
 
abufletcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Zentsuji, JAPAN
Posts: 15,019
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

BTW, I posted this thread on the new FG-14 on the Scale Forum.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_86...tm.htm#8656842
Old 05-15-2009, 09:39 PM
  #14738  
My Feedback: (5)
 
jeffEE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Lakeille MN
Posts: 1,572
Received 11 Likes on 11 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

WOW....sorry about the size of the picture. I will have to be more careful. Yes, it's a Basla USA kit. And I really do not mind the gassers. Iwas just amazed by how quiet the 2.20 really is.
Abufletcher. How old is the motor? Have the valves been adjusted? Plug changed? had there been a BIG temp change in the air( winter running-vs-summer) Valve springs still OK? A loose head bolt? Just a few ideas off the top of my head. I am sure you have checked most of the same things, But it's all I could think of. Sorry
Old 05-15-2009, 09:48 PM
  #14739  
My Feedback: (16)
 
w8ye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Shelby, OH
Posts: 37,576
Received 9 Likes on 9 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

ORIGINAL: abufletcher I posted this in the Puppeteer thread in the Kit Building forum but here it is again. On the last of six flights the other day, my Saito 56 which had been running absolutely beautifully sagged and died just before take-off. And I wasn't able to get it started again. No, that's not quite right. It always starts right up. But always dies at full throttle. The next day I had a new fresh can of fuel (which I had suspected might be part of the problem) but it's the same thing. Here are the symptoms: 1) idles a bit higher than usual 2) good revs at middle throttle 3) sags considerably in the top 1/3 of the throttle and then dies 4) after even a short run engine seems hotter than normal and there's some smoke coming off the muffler (which I don't usually see). All this suggests to me that maybe it's running lean, but how does an engine suddenly from one flight to the next, runs lean when it's been flying beautifully all day?
It is running lean, could be due to an air leak. They are usually where the intake manifold goes into the head
Old 05-16-2009, 12:40 AM
  #14740  
 
abufletcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Zentsuji, JAPAN
Posts: 15,019
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

This just got DOUBLY frustrating! Today I took another model also with a Saito 56 in it out to the field and had EXACTLYTHESAME problem! As with the other engine, it starts easily, the mid-range is fine, but at the top the throttle the engine sags and dies. And seems to be overheating.

This time, however, our club Saito expert was on hand and looked the engine over well. He checked the carb open and close positions, the throttle arm linkage and settings, the rocker and valve movement and found nothing unusual. He spent close to an hour looking it over and trying everything possible to solve the problem. But to no avail. In the end it was his opinion it may be a fuel delivery problem and I'll check all the plumbing.

But I think the possibility of an air leak around the manifold opening is a very real possibility. I know that both engines have had the manifold off at some point and the small gasket there may have been damaged.

Both engines were purchased several years ago but haven't been used much. Both were originally given a thorough bench break-in (as per Saito's instructions) and both initially performed well. But then a month or so ago I started to have problems with them (overheating and irregular high throttle). So I sent the engine to Saito (in Japan) and the front and rear bearings as well as the gaskets were replaced.

After getting the engines back, I again ran them on the test stand and both seemed perfect. Then I put them back in the models and have had a solid couple of weeks of flying one of them with no problems whatsoever. I was beginning to think that this may be the best engine I've ever had. Until the day before yesterday, when suddenly after 5 absolutely flawless flights (and four days of similarly flawless flights before that) it didn't want to run anymore.

My entire "fleet" is now grounded!
Old 05-16-2009, 01:15 AM
  #14741  
My Feedback: (16)
 
w8ye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Shelby, OH
Posts: 37,576
Received 9 Likes on 9 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

FUEL? Try some of your fuel in someone else's engine?
Old 05-16-2009, 01:18 AM
  #14742  
 
abufletcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Zentsuji, JAPAN
Posts: 15,019
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !


ORIGINAL: w8ye

FUEL? Try some of your fuel in someone else's engine?
Same problem with two types of fuel (in both engines). Both fuels had worked well previously. 15% nitro with 20+ percet oil. All fuel was "fresh." These are both standard fuels from major Japanese RC fuel companies ("Cosmo RC").

Old 05-16-2009, 03:04 AM
  #14743  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: sydney, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 306
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Thanks w8ye for those figs. they are about what i am getting so i cannot expect much more from the engine, so i will have to go up in size as 14 Pound + is to much for a 120 and am now in the hunt for a Saito 180.
Thanks again.
Dave.
Old 05-16-2009, 03:49 AM
  #14744  
 
abufletcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Zentsuji, JAPAN
Posts: 15,019
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Pulled the engine out of the model, mounted in an a test stand, and fired it up. It runs without apparent problems. Stable idle. Good high end. No sags. So what have I screwed up on the installation? This engine is mounted upright in the round metal cowl of a Flair Legionnaire. There's a dummy engine but with two "missing cylinders" for air inflow and a wide area above and behind the cylinder head for air outflow. Tank is pretty much on the carb center line.

In the case of the other engine, it's mounted sideways (needle valve pointing up) in a Flair Puppeteer. It's also behind a dummy with cutouts for inflow and lots of space for outflow. More to the point, why have I been able to fly the model without problems of any kind for almost 8 hours over the past two weeks without any problem until just now? I haven't changed anything on the model or the engine. It just stopped working.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2I8efn72PI

Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Fd91897.jpg
Views:	30
Size:	129.3 KB
ID:	1199271   Click image for larger version

Name:	Uq49649.jpg
Views:	19
Size:	122.9 KB
ID:	1199272   Click image for larger version

Name:	Lr39084.jpg
Views:	23
Size:	458.5 KB
ID:	1199273   Click image for larger version

Name:	Ys48793.jpg
Views:	26
Size:	69.6 KB
ID:	1199274   Click image for larger version

Name:	Cn79015.jpg
Views:	22
Size:	182.9 KB
ID:	1199275   Click image for larger version

Name:	Ne55517.jpg
Views:	26
Size:	414.3 KB
ID:	1199276  
Old 05-16-2009, 04:28 AM
  #14745  
 
abufletcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Zentsuji, JAPAN
Posts: 15,019
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

What's wrong with the image upload function!!! I've tried uploading twice with the same results.
Old 05-16-2009, 06:18 AM
  #14746  
 
abufletcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Zentsuji, JAPAN
Posts: 15,019
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Let me add that we try running the engine in the Legionnaire without the cowl at the field today and had the same problem. Also when I removed the engine I took a close look at the where the manifold enters the head and that looks well sealed. All the bolts on the engine are tight.
Old 05-16-2009, 08:04 AM
  #14747  
My Feedback: (16)
 
w8ye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Shelby, OH
Posts: 37,576
Received 9 Likes on 9 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

You didn't do anything wrong with the uploads. There's something wrong at RCUniverse.
Old 05-16-2009, 08:07 AM
  #14748  
My Feedback: (16)
 
w8ye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Shelby, OH
Posts: 37,576
Received 9 Likes on 9 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

through the process of elimination you should be able to isolate your problem

If the engine runs good on the stand then there is something wrong in your plane
Old 05-16-2009, 04:03 PM
  #14749  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Elizabethtown, NY
Posts: 332
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

I've got 6 saito's a 100,150,2-180's, a 220 and the 450r-3 gk
Old 05-16-2009, 10:59 PM
  #14750  
 
abufletcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Zentsuji, JAPAN
Posts: 15,019
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !


ORIGINAL: w8ye

through the process of elimination you should be able to isolate your problem

If the engine runs good on the stand then there is something wrong in your plane
I tested the engine on the stand again but with the same tank and tubing used on the model. It ran perfectly. So, as you say, it has to be a problem with the model. Upon trying to put the tank back in the model it appears that there may been a constriction on the tank tubes as they (3-tube setup) pass through the hole in the firewall. So I've enlarged the hole and buttoned the whole thing back up again.

So we'll see.


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.