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Welcome to Club SAITO !

Old 10-01-2009, 07:59 PM
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A proven piece of technology is never a crutch, A Cline or IronBay regulator is a cure all for set ups that don't even have any issues. It simply makes engines work better from beginning to end of a tank of fuel, I like that piece of mind and instant throttle response you get when you don't have the HS needle set rich at the beginning of a flight so you don't have worry about it going lean at the end. As to the on board glow lighter, the regulator even eliminates the need for that.

Crutches, no way.
Old 10-01-2009, 09:43 PM
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ORIGINAL: Hobbsy

A proven piece of technology is never a crutch, A Cline or IronBay regulator is a cure all for set ups that don't even have any issues. It simply makes engines work better from beginning to end of a tank of fuel, I like that piece of mind and instant throttle response you get when you don't have the HS needle set rich at the beginning of a flight so you don't have worry about it going lean at the end. As to the on board glow lighter, the regulator even eliminates the need for that.

Crutches, no way.
A crutch is a proven piece of technology (maybe engineering), and it IS a crutch. Didn't mean to step on your technology. What I meant by 'crutch' is resorting to pumps or on board glow to 'fix' an inverted issue. We were talking about inverted engines. I'm sure the good people at Saito intend for their engines to run fine in any attitude, just the way they ship them, without expensive add-ons. My experience has been, they will. That is my point. Weather a guy wants to spend more for piece of mind is his prerogative. I just want to make the point that, for those on a more modest budget, those whistles and bells are not necessary. I fly a twin with inverted engines and no added devises, with full piece of mind.

I bought a Cub with an inverted Saito 72 in it. The builder said he had all kinds of problems keeping it running till he put the on board glow in. I took the 4" custom extension off the stock muffler, removed the whole on board glow system, balanced the prop, and set out tuning the engine. In about 5 minutes, I had it running perfect. It has all summer. I just resist this idea that these devises are necessary on inverted engines.
Old 10-01-2009, 11:21 PM
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Actually, no help is needed. I LOVE the way mine run, I like having glow at the low end when mine are inverted. They work great upright and even leaned over on their sides. I started flying with Saitos in 1995 and have been flying them ever since.

And I've solved the spring-loaded fueler problem with the little caps that you can buy in Home Depot in the lamp department. They look like little gas caps and they seal the fueler from air leakage.

I have a muffler extension on my Waco's Saito 150, and it's just fine. It actually has a great smoke trail! It was a corrugated straight pipe and I screwed a Saito 150 muffler onto the end of it. I think it was intended to be an extension rather than just a straight pipe.

And I agree, I have had them run just fine inverted, although placing the glow plug right in the path of fuel and gravity is going to mean a LOT of tuning (read that as: leaning out) at idle, and I have found that they are not quite as strong as when I use glow on the low end. I've gotten them to run perfectly at idle and then flown the plane inverted for a while and then pulled back the throttle to idle, and pffhhht.

I buy Saitos so that they will run perfectly, they make my flying a pleasure. No use in taking a chance when I can insure a perfect idle easily. That's just my choice to use glow when they're inverted. Oh, and by the way, I also try to avoid models that require them to be inverted. Not all of them, but I like them upright as much as possible. I used to fly a lot of SIG models because of that, I liked them a lot. Just personal choice.

There are many aspects of modeling that have more complications that I avoid. I'm not a guy who goes for crazy scaled out models, not if I have to scale them out myself. Over many, many years I've found a comfort zone within my modeling. I've gone way overboard in pretty much every way you can imagine (many times), and I've finally settled on what works for me.

I'm an onboard glow baby when a Saito is inverted, that'll never change. Simple and dependable.

Jimbo
Old 10-02-2009, 08:18 AM
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The fact that this hobby has so much diversion is cool. And sharing tips and experiences is part of the comrodery that makes this hobby even more enjoyable, isn't it? In sharing my experiences with my engines, I hope to help those looking for answers, but many times, there are more than one answer that will work. What works for me just may work for someone else as well though. I hope so.

If a guy wants an extension on his muffler, and can't get the tank oriented as I explained, and needs more distance, or the engine is buried, then by all means, an on-board glow and or and Cline will help.

Over the last 40 years, my interests have varied in the hobby,or maybe phases is a better word. At one time it was all one speed, then, I couldn't go slow enough, warbirds, pattern aerobatics, small, giant, electric jets, and on. Now, it is a combination of giant aerobatic (my Yak), micro and small electric, and giant warbirds. I'm in the process of building a 102" Miester P-47 with aluminum covering and a lot of scale detail. Not 'top gun', but close to that detail. But always, since my first Saito a couple decades ago, I have loved the 4-stroke. I always see having some. Love the sound, the smoke (especially on twins) and the smell.

Here is my P-38 smoking on take-off. No glow, no pumps, two 100s inverted and fully cowled in, remote glow, bump the spinners and they start, perfect idle, totally reliable. A pure joy to own and fly. She cuts a nice trail as well. We are at about 650' above sea level.
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Old 10-02-2009, 09:59 AM
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Yeah,
I've kind of been backing off from the big birds. I got into them hot and heavy for a number of years and then realized that I could've had a nice (used) Corvette for what I had into just two of them. My wife was pointing out (correctly) that any one of them could have been another CD or similar investment in our retirement portfolio. So, I was planning on selling them off when somebody backed a truck up to my house while I was gone and relieved me of all of them at once (plus tons of our other stuff)

Well. That was easy. They're all gone now. Errrgh.

Anyway, I've been restocking my hangar and re-evaluating what I most enjoyed and what I want to keep around. I DID like the gas engines, those really are much cleaner (but I don't care what anybody says, you have to clean a plane every time you fly off grass anyway.), but I'm striking a balance now and getting into barely-giants, like a Dynaflite Chipmunk with a lot of wing and a small gasser. Done up in the Canadian Army Air Force trainer paint job. So, the small gassers are still in.

Other than those, I'm sticking with Saitos only up to 1.00 size. I'm not going to add any Saitos bigger than 1.00, I'm going to go with gassers for that. And I'm going no larger than 30CC's on the gassers.

My Waco is the one notable exception on Saito size, but it was already built and it fits so perfectly that the Saito 150 valve covers actually replace the blisters in the cowl.....I have to point them out to people and they're so surprised to SEE the Chromies there right on top all of a sudden... So it's kind of hard to say no to that one perfect setup. I also have two OS Twins, a 1.20 and a 1.60.....both were for my Spacewalker II's and I had them prior to my decision to use gas rather than larger 4-strokes. One SP-II is built and I'm thinking of using the 1.60 on it and then going with Gas on the other SP-II once it has been completed. I'm waiting to maiden the built SP-II first, as it already has the 1.20 on it and I'm waiting to see how it performs. I bought the SP-II used and overhauled it. It needed it!

My home here in San Antonio is my limiting factor, we have no basements here and Property Owner's Associations don't allow outbuilding in these developments. Very limited storage. And the attic, which I thought would be roomy enough for some items, is absolutely filled with insulation, right up almost to the roof. Great low electric bills but I'm strapped for space. The Mrs controls the house itself, and my planes (now occupying one front room) are ALL to be out in the garage within one more year, or things probably will get a little rough for me.... We're negotiating...she thought all the nice new shelves in the garage were a perfect extra pantry, and actually took over a BIG part of the shelving I'd put in for the shop.....2 feet deep, 4 feet wide, and 4 shelves tall.... So I moved my planes back out of the shop and into the front room that I had recently moved them all out of.... claimed I needed the extra space for a while....to send her a message... I think I made my point.

We will be adding on to the back of the house for a REAL plane-shop for me at some point and I promised her a BIG pantry section on one end of that. Negotiation....it's a tough thing! I won't tell her but I'd give up all the planes for her, she's a keeper.

Our hobby is intertwined through our lives in a fashion that's similar to the ways that it intertwines through our homes....Everything affects everything else.

And in today's world it brings me the smiles that few other things bring me.

Jimbo

PS...By the way, RAM....If you're gonna go through the trouble of having a twin, the P-38 is the one to have....hands-down winner....Pretty bird there.
Old 10-02-2009, 02:19 PM
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Wow Jimbo, that is quite a story. Sorry about the break-in. That had to be a stressful thing to go through. I've had some vehicles broken into and one stolen and it always feels like a violation. Seems like your models would turn up somewhere.

Anyway, thanks for the compliment. She is also a keeper. A lot of work to get her that way, but worth it. She was the poster plane for two local fly-ins this summer, and made the front page of one local news paper. I wasn't mentioned in any of it, I'm jealous.

Although I have had planes as big as 12', this giant P-47 is big enough for me right now. Fortunately, we here in Ohio do have basements and mine is sort of a man cave right now. My wife covets it, but not enough to press the issue. She had the rest of the house. Still, I'd like to sell a few things including my AT6, a Twin Star, a Goldberg Extreme Extra, some gas and glow engines, and some electric stuff. I also have I think 3 on board systems, that I took out of planes, that I done need. If I didn't fly it much or at all this year, I figure it can go. I'd rather build new stuff.

I wish you well on your 'retooling' and enjoy you posts.
Old 10-03-2009, 12:19 AM
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Saito 325 Max rpm ?
Please anyone - What is the max rpm we can expect with a 20x10 wooden prop, the most we have had is around 6000. Ordered new mufflers (old ones cracked) , carb and 'o'rings - trolling forums most revs expected is 7500rpm but can not pin down prop size - Joe
Old 10-03-2009, 12:33 AM
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I seriously doubt you will ever see 7500 even with a regular cheap wood 20 X 8

I don't think you will have good performance from the engine at 7500

Try flying it with the 20 X 10
Old 10-03-2009, 12:58 AM
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W8ye - Blimey! that was a quick reply.
We did fly it - in a Stearman, but just and only just got airborne, it's very difficult to get any performance info on these engines, possibly cos there's not too many around, price being too prohibitive. We are determined though to get 7000 plus with the 20x10, the limiting factor does seem to be carburation very little happens when twiddling with the hi spd screw. Can 'Saito' help with performance data - Joe
Old 10-03-2009, 01:03 AM
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If very little happens with the high speed screw, try opening the low speed scew up some and then work with the high speed
Old 10-03-2009, 01:14 AM
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Will do W8ye and so let you all know if and when we get better results - thanks
Old 10-03-2009, 09:47 AM
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I purchased an Old Diablo two months ago for $20 US and have been bringing it back. It did not seem to have ever had a crash, just old and weary. I purchased a used Saito 180 from E Bay for $200 US and had to spend about $100 US to get it up and running. It should be ready to fly in a week or so as I am still having a problem getting a 20 oz tank that will fit. Thought you would be interested in seeing this project. There are so many old planes just sitting in someone's garage gathering dust that could be contributing to the hobby.

Kevin
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Old 10-03-2009, 10:00 AM
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Excellent, Kenny, let us know how it goes. Is this the one that's been needing a round tank? I'd do a little carving and put another tank in. Perhaps cut yourself your own new bulkhead that can be glued up against the old ones that holds the tank the same way.

Jimbo
Old 10-03-2009, 10:29 AM
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HI Jimbo. yes it is the same one. But it does not have the depth for me to cut. I have a maximum of 4 3/4 inches in depth . All the tanks I seem to find that are 20 oz are long not fat. I am going to look and see if I can find another container of some sort.

Kevin<br type="_moz" />
Old 10-03-2009, 11:28 AM
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These are my choices that I have been able to find so far. The left is the original, the center is 24 oz water bottle made by Rubber maid and the right about 21 oz is a garden spray can. I will have to get a larger rubber cork perhaps one of the new soft plastic corks made for wine. I will soak them all in fuel before putting them in the plane.

Kevin<br type="_moz" />
Old 10-03-2009, 11:30 AM
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<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Verdana, Arial; font-size: 13px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 1px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 1px; ">Sorry the pictures did not attach. These are my choices that I have been able to find so far. The left is the original, the center is 24 oz water bottle made by Rubber maid and the right about 21 oz is a garden spray can. I will have to get a larger rubber cork perhaps one of the new soft plastic corks made for wine. I will soak them all in fuel before putting them in the plane.

Kevin</span>
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Old 10-03-2009, 11:50 AM
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Ahhh....Gotcha.

Somebody must have something sitting around for that. I'll dig around.

Jimbo
Old 10-03-2009, 12:39 PM
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ORIGINAL: kevinkenny

<span class=''Apple-style-span'' style=''font-family: Verdana, Arial; font-size: 13px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 1px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 1px; ''>Sorry the pictures did not attach. These are my choices that I have been able to find so far. The left is the original, the center is 24 oz water bottle made by Rubber maid and the right about 21 oz is a garden spray can. I will have to get a larger rubber cork perhaps one of the new soft plastic corks made for wine. I will soak them all in fuel before putting them in the plane.

Kevin</span>
I have a ton of tanks in a box. All shapes and sizes. I have used even a 16oz on my 180s and still get 10 to 15 min flights with reserve. Not much full throttle doing aerobatic flying. I think the 180 is better on gas than the 150. I'll see what I have also.
Old 10-03-2009, 01:58 PM
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Both of these tanks will fit. I just have to open up the hole in the fire wall to let it extend into the engine compartment. Ohio is a bit far from Trinidad but thanks anyway for the very kind offer.

Kevin<br type="_moz" />
Old 10-03-2009, 07:38 PM
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Well, tried the pump with a different length of line but it's still just got too much fuel flow in the mid range, and not enough on top end. I richened the top end needle like a turn, and it got no better. No worse. Just stayed the same. If I turn the regulator's flow screw in to help the top end, the midrange gets SUPER rich, and when I lean the bottom to correct, it won't idle because it's super lean down low.

I think I may have to just put the stock muffler on the thing and forget about having a high performance header. Stock muffler is too quiet, and it's really cool to get that backfire on occasion with the header, but I just can't seem to get this stupid pump dialed in.

-Eric
Old 10-03-2009, 08:26 PM
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Try the pump bypass set up where the pump gets the fuel to the carb but what the engine does not use goes back to the tank in a return line
Old 10-03-2009, 10:26 PM
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I agree. Any pressure pump should have a bypass return to the tank.

Jimbo
Old 10-03-2009, 11:14 PM
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Hmmm... This is new.

Pump from tank to T, one side of T to tank, other to engine? I don't have 4 lines coming out of my tank! LOL

-Eric
Old 10-03-2009, 11:44 PM
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You can Tee the return back into the clunk line near the tank
Old 10-03-2009, 11:46 PM
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Hi, need some help on a saito 180 gasket kit, I recently replaced bearings and I got a motor gasket kit as well. I figured out all the gaskets, backplate, cam, valve covers, but am at a loss for the smallest one, it is round and measure less than a 1/4" in diameter with a hole in it. The only thing I can figure is the carb somewhere like the needle valve but didnt seem to be it. Any thoughts?

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