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Welcome to Club SAITO !

Old 10-03-2009, 11:47 PM
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Here you go! I found my original video of H-9 P-51D Mustang 150 with Saito 180.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L56V2cJ3T1A[/youtube]
Old 10-03-2009, 11:51 PM
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ORIGINAL: gsibert

Hi, need some help on a saito 180 gasket kit, I recently replaced bearings and I got a motor gasket kit as well. I figured out all the gaskets, backplate, cam, valve covers, but am at a loss for the smallest one, it is round and measure less than a 1/4'' in diameter with a hole in it. The only thing I can figure is the carb somewhere like the needle valve but didnt seem to be it. Any thoughts?
Take a look in here.may be it help http://www.horizonhobby.com/ProdInfo...der_Manual.pdf
Old 10-03-2009, 11:58 PM
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The little tiny one goes behind the inner nut on your needle valve

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Old 10-04-2009, 12:14 AM
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Looks and sounds great, Phantom4.

Needs smoke.

EJ
Old 10-04-2009, 07:45 AM
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Well its all done. I decided to use the garden sprayer as the tank as it fitted the furthest inside with very little sticking out into the fuselage. I siliconed the front and used silicone to stick the tank inside the plane. There was no area where I could use tie straps. Squeezed some foam around the sides and top and she is good to go.

Kevin<br type="_moz" />
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Old 10-04-2009, 09:57 AM
  #16131  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !


ORIGINAL: w8ye

You can Tee the return back into the clunk line near the tank
This is correct. You loop back to the line BEFORE the pump, that's all it takes.

Jimbo
Old 10-04-2009, 09:59 AM
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Looking good, Kenny. Let us know how it holds up. Particularly the seams.

I was laughing when I saw the arrows. Same as mine. I had one a few months ago, wouldn't fill right, and then I checked and saw the arrows pointing DOWN....(oops!)

Jimbo
Old 10-04-2009, 10:21 AM
  #16133  
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Ah, great idea!!!

Should I tap a remote needle in there to regulate pressure?

LOL It'd be like a real car... Pump, return line, pressure regulator...

Then my only concern is how to choke/prime the pump/engine with the cowl on... Since muffler pressure won't be available.

I guess I could plug the vent line for the first fuel-up of the day and just let it flood the crap out of my carb. I could also try to find a choke for it, but I've never really seen Horizon carry them... Thoughts?

You guys are great.

Edit: Will any of these work on my 82?

http://search.horizonhobby.com/index...d=1242042DD310

-Eric
Old 10-04-2009, 11:40 AM
  #16134  
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I've never choked my Saitos, not ever, rcCardude04.

No regulator will be required, you've got flow to the carb, the return line IS your pressure regulator. The Saito needs positive flow, nothing else.

Get yourself a good hand-held starter. Your Saito will start every time. The .82 is an easy motor to start. What I typically do is up the throttle to one-third (without the glow igniter on) and give it a spin, THEN I put on or turn on the glow igniter and throttle down to just above idle, and give it another spin. Usually it's running as soon as I tap it and get it turning over. I give it about 40 to 60 seconds to warm up, and then I fly, or tune, or whatever. Remember it's just like any other engine, don't tune it until it's up to temperature.

They have EXCELLENT hand-held starters now that run off two of the 7.2-Volt Car-type packs, which might just be the ticket for you since your name would imply you probably already have the packs hanging around. You can even get the separate parts and built your own, which is what I did. By far the best starter I have ever owned. I bought one of the (sorry) Chinese starters with the big cup on the end that has a 3:1 gear reduction ratio in it. Can't find any American of that type. The big cup Vee works great for prop spinners, works even on the medium-sized Saitos with the Higley-nuts on the front, and if the Vee goes on too far and hits the prop, you simply reverse the rubber cup to use the smaller Vee in the back. The rubber pieces that hold the two battery packs are readily available, if you can't find any just let me know, my hobby shop carries them. I'll try to take a few photos of it so you can see the setup. I think that once I got all the parts together I had spent about 125 to 135 dollars, but I simply bought them one at a time while I worked on soldering up my connectors. You can probably save 20 or 30 bucks and much of the soldering just by using the Tamiya-type molexes already on the batteries. I went with the EC-3 connectors because they impressed me with the loads they'll handle, and I wanted my starter to be a B[]lls-to-the-walls deal to start my Saito 150. For a Saito .82 you'll need no such power level.

Starter $59.99
Batteries (2) $19.99 X 2
rubber battery mounts(pair) $14.99
choice of connectors $20.00

Remember you'll need to charge it, plan the wiring for battery charging according to your own charging setup.

You won't need a choke!

Jimbo
Old 10-04-2009, 11:11 PM
  #16135  
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I use an electric starter already. I couldn't get the pump to draw fuel earlier, even at WOT with no fuel to the pump. I had to *fudge it* with my finger over the crankcase vent to make it pump a little harder, and eventually it drew fuel in.

With muffler pressure it's easy. Just finger over the pipe and spin 5-6 revolutions. Apply ignitor, hit it with a starter and it's running every time.

I just need a way to prime the pump really. After that it'd be good to go.

My starter is a Heli-Max heli-start starter. 2 540 motors in series with a pair of 7.2v nicds. It will turn over my 1.80 without breaking a sweat. Works infinitely better than the old Sullivan starter or Hobbico Torqmaster 90 I was using for a while. I actually don't even use nicds any more except these starters. Everything else is Li Poly LOL.

Anyway, I'll try it without the needle and see how it goes, and if it seems to need a bit more pressure I'll go ahead and toss the needle on it, but I kind of think you are probably right. It should just work. We'll see.

Also, I'm not exactly a n00b when it comes to engines, starters, batteries, whatever. I just haven't yet figured out this whole fuel pump thing and it's driving me insane... I'll figure it out. I refuse to fail permanently. LOL

-Eric
Old 10-04-2009, 11:35 PM
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Carry on bravely!

Jim
Old 10-05-2009, 12:31 AM
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Sadly enough, I've installed the needle valve since it will be much easier to bypass it outside than to not have it installed and then put it on if necessary. If I decide not to keep the needle, I can always use it for my smoke system when the time comes.

-Eric
Old 10-05-2009, 12:43 AM
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Instruction on how to apply the bypass system

http://www.perrypumps.com/Pump%20and...s%20System.pdf
Old 10-05-2009, 12:50 AM
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I am anxious to try it out when I get back to town. I appreciate the help
Jerry
ORIGINAL: w8ye

The little tiny one goes behind the inner nut on your needle valve

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Old 10-05-2009, 06:34 AM
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ORIGINAL: rccardude04

Sadly enough, I've installed the needle valve since it will be much easier to bypass it outside than to not have it installed and then put it on if necessary. If I decide not to keep the needle, I can always use it for my smoke system when the time comes.

-Eric
It's your time to waste, and your model to play with. I shouldn't think that it will, but let us know if you discover that the needle makes any difference. Check out the diagram in the link above and make sure you've got the system right.

Jimbo
Old 10-05-2009, 07:28 AM
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Hello guys,is anyone running a 325 and keleo exhaust collector ring?

A clubmate is fitting one to a fw 190 a8 and has heard that the collector ring can influence scavenging by way of odd exhaust pulses.Any advice or links most appreciated.
Old 10-05-2009, 07:32 AM
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Thanks for the link, that's how I have it set up. Just with a little more complexity with the needle, which is probably not entirely necessary... lol

All I have to do in order to bypass the needle is cut 2 zipties and run a line between my 2 Ts. Easy enough. And yeah, if it turns out I don't need the needle, I can use it for my smoke regulator after I get the thing running properly.

Thanks again! Hopefully I can run this thing today sometime.

-Eric
Old 10-05-2009, 12:34 PM
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Eric,
With regards to your priming dilema, when I had the VP-30 on my 1.25 all I had to do is tilt the nose of the plane down and the fuel flowed freely into the pump and to the carb. Once the fuel was at the pump, flipping the prop also moved the fuel. My 1.25 was also cowled, so I blindly primed by figuring out the motions while the cowl was off. With my setup, all I had to do was tilt the nose down, flip the prop 5 times and it fired right up.
Old 10-05-2009, 07:06 PM
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Hi guys, this is a massive thread and I haven't quite found the information I'm after.

Recently I purchased and aircraft with a Saito 45. I found that the carb retaining tab on the back cover (to which the carb mounts) was broken. Luckily a fellow club member gave me his very old Saito 45 to use as parts. The plan was to make at least one good engine out of two, hopefully by swapping the back plate.

As I disassembled and cleaned the engines (keeping each set of parts separate) I discovered many differences between the two engines: pushrod lengths, pushrod tubes, cam lobes different, intake tube sizes, carbs and sizes, backplates, carb mount, exhausts etc. In essence, it's not possible to swap much between the engine without keeping it all matched. So, here are my questions that I hope someone can answer:

1. One engine uses a single screw to retain the carb to the backplate, what would be the age/designation for this engine?
2. The other engine uses two cap screws to retain the carb to the backplate, also using a small spacer between the two. What designation is this engine?
3. Are the bearings the same on all Saito 45s?
4. Other than the parts that obviously won't fit, why would the backplate from one engine hit the crank pin on the other (a thicker gasket - if I had one - would probably solve the problem).
5. What's the best way to remove a Saito crank, it looks like the prop driver has a split tapered cone to retain it?
6. Any comments on why the cams are so different? The lobes on one cam seem to ramp up quicker but have shorter dwell at peak, the other has much wider lobes. Overlap looks to be the same.
7. Which engine would I be better off repairing (all other things being servicable) the one with the single carb retaining screw or the one with two capscrews?

Any assistance much appreciated. I'm plan to order bearings once I can confirm of all 45's use the same bearing set OR once I can confirm which versions/designation engines I have.
Old 10-05-2009, 09:22 PM
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My muffler manifold broke off from the cylinder while in flight. Tried finding the muffler in a recently cultivated farmers to no avail. Was wondering how difficult this would be to fix on my own? Was looking at the exploded view in the manual and it seems a little intimidating to me. I need a new cylinder, muffler manifold and muffler.
Old 10-05-2009, 09:22 PM
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One engine is a 45 MKII and the other a 45S. I would expect very little to interchange between the two?
Old 10-05-2009, 11:08 PM
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ORIGINAL: w8ye

One engine is a 45 MKII and the other a 45S. I would expect very little to interchange between the two?
Thanks w8ye. Is either one better than the other?

Looking at pics on the web, the engine using the two retaining capscrews for the carb would be the MKII. Is that correct?

While many parts are different, the crank and crankcase appear to be interchangable....
Old 10-05-2009, 11:15 PM
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ORIGINAL: PearHead

Eric,
With regards to your priming dilema, when I had the VP-30 on my 1.25 all I had to do is tilt the nose of the plane down and the fuel flowed freely into the pump and to the carb. Once the fuel was at the pump, flipping the prop also moved the fuel. My 1.25 was also cowled, so I blindly primed by figuring out the motions while the cowl was off. With my setup, all I had to do was tilt the nose down, flip the prop 5 times and it fired right up.

Perfect! I'll give this a shot when I fire it up (now I have to wait till Wednesday to play with it if I'm lucky).

-Eric
Old 10-06-2009, 12:09 AM
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There were at least three Saito 45's. The very first had a bolt on head, the second, (the MkII) had a one piece cylinder as did the 45S. The first two were identical except for the cylinder and the parts were interchangeable. The first came out about 1979, the MkII about 1982 or 3. Both nice engines and easy to operate but not the most powerful. The 45S used a high lift cam and was considerable more powerful. The backplates for the first two are no longer available. I bought the last two that Horizon Hobbies had a couple years ago.

Yes a thicker gasket will work. The bearings are all the same. The front is a 698Z (8x19) and the back is a 6901 (12x24). The crankcases are all the same and are also what the 50 used with a small adapter ring so the smaller 45 cylinder would fit.

To get the drive washer off you need a small gear puller. A battery cable puller will work in a pinch. Car parts store sell them. Once the drive washer is off, the crank will slide out. You may have to tap on it with a brass hammer or a piece of hardwood.

If you can get your parts all to fit, the 45S is the stronger engine.

A while back I found that if you removed the red id tag on the 45S crankcase, it said 50 under it. I took the little spacer from a broken 45 case and put it in the 50 case. Tried to put the high lift cam in but it lifted to high and the rockers hit. The top end is all stock 45MkII parts and the bottom is FA50. Engine runs great but with the same power as the MkII.

The 45's were great little engines and very easy to set up and excellent on fuel economy. My 45/50 is on an old ACE 4-40 and flies well.
Old 10-06-2009, 06:14 AM
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Here is what the gear puller looks like to get the drive washer off and a photograph of the drive washer,
Kevin
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