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Welcome to Club SAITO !

Old 02-11-2006, 12:29 AM
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Ranger:

What you brought up was the replacement elements, the filter itself is here:
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...?ProdID=BRU202

But do get at least a couple spare elements also. When one gets dirty slip one of the spares in, then later wash the one you took out. They can be washed an indefinite number of times.

Bill.
Old 02-11-2006, 12:33 AM
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The tank should be mounted even with the center of the needle valve

Enjoy

Jim
Old 02-11-2006, 12:35 AM
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Ranger:

...inverted at a 45 degree angle...
Assuming you mean at 135 degrees, 45 degrees below horizontal. The tank center should be level or slightly below the center POINT of the carb. This holds for mouting at any angle. The centerpoint of the carb is the reference.

Bill.
Old 02-11-2006, 08:52 AM
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JLK,
I noticed the strange value for Pi in SLJ213....'s calculation of the displacement of a Saito 1.00 also. However, if you read the post carefully, you will notice that he squared the bore (diameter), not the radius of the bore. When squaring the diameter of a circle (bore) the resultant number will always be four times that of the square of the radius of the same circle. dxd = d squared, .5dx.5d = .25 d squared. .5d being, of course, the radius (of the bore, in this case)
He then multiplies d squared by the stroke (height of the cylinder) and then multipleis by .7854. As it turns out, .7854 is .25Pi. By using .7854, rather than Pi, he removes the factor of four introduced by squaring the diameter of the bore instead of the radius of the bore.
It works, but I wonder where he learned to do that??? Maybe an old machinist's trick, or something??
BTW, your first impulse was correct; it is 1.04.... CUBIC INCHES, not CUBIC CENTIMETERS. The bore and stroke figures provided by WR are in inches, not centimeters. The product is in Cu.In., not CC.
All this conversion of cc's to ci's gets to be very confusing!!!!!!!!!!!!
Old 02-11-2006, 10:50 AM
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That's almost like counting the cows out standing in their field? Count the legs and divide by four?

Or dividing by multiplying with the inverse of the divisor?

Jim
Old 02-11-2006, 11:19 AM
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That would do it.
Old 02-11-2006, 01:41 PM
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How about subtracting by adding nine's complement?

Old computer tricks. Addition and multiplication are easy, division and subtraction are not.

Bill.
Old 02-11-2006, 02:21 PM
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The formula that I have used since 1971 was learned at Highland College in Freeport, Ill where I studied Automotive Technology. It has always worked for me!
ORIGINAL: rlmcnii

JLK,
I noticed the strange value for Pi in SLJ213....'s calculation of the displacement of a Saito 1.00 also. However, if you read the post carefully, you will notice that he squared the bore (diameter), not the radius of the bore. When squaring the diameter of a circle (bore) the resultant number will always be four times that of the square of the radius of the same circle. dxd = d squared, .5dx.5d = .25 d squared. .5d being, of course, the radius (of the bore, in this case)
He then multiplies d squared by the stroke (height of the cylinder) and then multipleis by .7854. As it turns out, .7854 is .25Pi. By using .7854, rather than Pi, he removes the factor of four introduced by squaring the diameter of the bore instead of the radius of the bore.
It works, but I wonder where he learned to do that??? Maybe an old machinist's trick, or something??
BTW, your first impulse was correct; it is 1.04.... CUBIC INCHES, not CUBIC CENTIMETERS. The bore and stroke figures provided by WR are in inches, not centimeters. The product is in Cu.In., not CC.
All this conversion of cc's to ci's gets to be very confusing!!!!!!!!!!!!
Old 02-11-2006, 02:27 PM
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Hi all. I have been flying and totally enjoying my Saito engines for about four years now ( .91S ,.72 , 100 ). The .91 is my oldest and by far has the most time on it. The other evening I was looking at a number of posts mostly to do with setting valve clearance and after decided to do a check on my engines which are idle for the long Ontario winter. After adjusting the valves on the .91 I had a look through the glow hole with a light and noticed a bit of scoring on the portion of the wall that I could see.I am wondering if a bit of scoring is normal after about 200 flights or should the walls still be like new? The engine is a wonderful performer that has never given me trouble. I have been using 15% Helli CoolPower and a tack to set top rpm.

Thanks P.J
Old 02-11-2006, 02:33 PM
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The walls are chrome plated and likely will retain some of the cross hatch definitely in areas where the ring doesn't travel.

Enjoy,

Jim
Old 02-11-2006, 02:58 PM
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Jim if I have damage to the crome walls would it look like scoring or would the crome look flaked or chipped .

I would also like to thank all those who have contributed so much time and info. to this great thread.

P.J
Old 02-11-2006, 03:00 PM
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Hi all, I have a new Satio 100, I have been told when brakeing in the engine use a prop. that I plan on useing to fly with, ok no problem with that, what I like to know can I use a 3 blaide prop. for engine brake in? Or stick with a 2 blaide first?
The engine is going in my Yak-54
Dennis
Old 02-11-2006, 03:54 PM
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PJ:

As Jim says, visual score marks are not to be worried about.

Another matter - We have member number 89 with a user name of "peejay," is this you? If yes I'll change the listing, if not tell me and I'll assign you a different number.

Bill.
Old 02-11-2006, 04:05 PM
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SLJ2137694

Thanks for the reply. Your formula works fine, I had just never seen the volume of a cylinder calculated in such a manner. It saves one from dividing the bore by two, so you can just plug in numbers from an engine's spec sheet. It also saves one from remembering the numerical value of Pi in return for remembering .7854. An even trade, I think...
Old 02-11-2006, 04:24 PM
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Dennis:

Nothing wrong with using a three or even four bladed prop for break in, so long as it is in the right load range for the engine. All the engine sees is the load, and the only other thing the engine cares about while running is air flow for cooling. Doesn't matter how many blades are blowing the wind.

Bill.
Old 02-11-2006, 04:44 PM
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ORIGINAL: desmobob



Thanks Jack... it's good to feel loved! she may be the test pilot when I maiden my CMP P-40E the new Saito 1.50 is going in.

To keep things on topic -Saito- AND to try to one-up Torque on the fancy-smancy test stands, get a look at THIS bad boy!

This is my first model engine test stand. Guess what it's made from? My father's old shoe-shine box!!! I put bricks in the side "pockets" and mounted a fuel tank on top. An adjustable engine mount is screwed to the end (and I did use a screwdriver to put the screws in; how's that for high-tech!)

Read 'em and weep, Torque Wrench!

I'm having too much silly fun with this thread. I better go to bed!

Good flying,
desmobob

Does Big Brother have a problem with cat references? My post has been edited to remove mention of my cat and her photo removed with no communication or explanation to me. I really don't care for that type of thing. Maybe it's time to ditch this forum.

Good flying,
desmobob
Old 02-11-2006, 07:40 PM
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>>> you should be able to cut the fuel rate of your FA-65 by about 40% With an intake stack and a Bru-Line fine mesh air filter >>>

Someone here at RCU came up with the idea to clamp part of a rubber exhaust deflector onto the Saito intake stack for a little more length. It sounds like a good alternative to me if you don't have the Bru Line air filter handy...? Could there even be a "tuned length"?

Ernie
Old 02-11-2006, 07:47 PM
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Four strokes do not react to tuned lengths like two strokes do

Old 02-11-2006, 07:56 PM
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Ernie:

ORIGINAL: Ernie Misner
...Could there even be a "tuned length"?
Yes, there could indeed. But...

A tuned exhaust is pretty easy because we only have to worry about the pressure waves at the exhaust valve. With fuel injection again we only worry about the pressure waves at the intake valve.

With a carb another monkey pops up to bother us - the spray bar. Not only does the protrusion of the spray bar interfere with the wave travel, there are speeds at which the positive wave is going to be there when it's supposed to suck fuel, and instead it pushes the fuel back out and the engine goes lean.

Run some experiments anyway, let us know your results.

Bill.

Old 02-11-2006, 07:58 PM
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And on Jim's comment - tuned lengths on four stroke engines are twice as long as for a two stroke at the same rpm. They just get too long to be practical.

Bill.
Old 02-11-2006, 08:21 PM
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Got a PM from p.j, now the newest member is number 196, and it's p.j.

Bill.
Old 02-11-2006, 08:47 PM
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ORIGINAL: William Robison

Ranger:

...inverted at a 45 degree angle...
Assuming you mean at 135 degrees, 45 degrees below horizontal. The tank center should be level or slightly below the center POINT of the carb. This holds for mouting at any angle. The centerpoint of the carb is the reference.

Bill.
Thanks Jim and Bill!
Bill, it could be 135 degrees but it could be read so many different ways depending on which religion you're in (math/engineer) but I think you explained it pretty good.
I have a problem with my 91 low idle which is mounted around 165 degrees. When I have the cowl off it seems to cool down and then dies. Is this normal? It will idle around 2000 rpm for about 10 seconds the sputter and die.
I've checked the valves and while idling about 2800 rpm I pinched the fuel and when it increased RPM I then leaned it, then it died right off so I went just a couple of degrees back to rich till I got it just below the RPM increase state. Now it just hovers a bit and dies...is that right?

I ordered 3 velocity stacks and some filters so I will let you know if it fits the Saito 125s (ones for the plane I'm building my brother).
I'm afraid I have too much mechanical advantage on the throttle arm though...thoughts...thanks, Tim.
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Old 02-11-2006, 09:00 PM
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Duh! Jim, on the issue of mounting the tank in relation to the carb, I just realized I was thinking of mounting it with regards to air flow instead of fuel flow, that makes scense since the spray bar has the fuel...duh!
Old 02-11-2006, 09:12 PM
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Tim:

The three biggest reasons for not being able to get a good idle are an intake air leak, the tank is too low, or three, the engine just doesn't have enough running time to idle well;

With the tank too low the engine, running at a low speed just doesn't have enough suction to maintain the fuel flow. an air leak makes it that much harder for the engine to pull the fuel. Low time? You know how to correct that.

And yes, the spray bar is the reference point for tank height.

Bill.
Old 02-13-2006, 09:24 PM
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All:

Just got a PM:

In post #1560, Ernie Misner is asking if there is a specfic length for (intake) velocity stacks. In yours and other's replies you are talking (exhaust) tuned pipes. Did I miss something here or is this a misunderstanding? I just got a velocity stack and o ring for my Saito 100 and was wandering what you might have to say about the length of the intake velocity stack?
Guess I didn't make it plain. With true fuel injetion the intake can be tuned just as the exhaust can. But it's a fairly narrow rpm band, and unless you always keep the rpm close to that band the tuning often works against you. Reverse cones and expansion chambers don't work on the intake.

Then with a carb having all the bits sticking in the air flow it's just frustration.

Best just to ensure the air flow and use the stack and air filter to keep the inside of the cowl clean, one, and improve the fuel economy, two.

Bill.

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