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Old 07-02-2010, 01:46 PM
  #17801  
VictoryRoll
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Hi All !

 I am going to be mounting my new FA-100 BK (Father's Day Gift ) on my new GP Big Stik 60 Arf (presently am recoating with different color scheme) and want some advice as to the firewall & engine mount and fuel tank.

1.  Should I reinforce the firewall more than it already is ( 3/8" tri-stock around all internal sides) ?  Re-epoxy? Leave alone?

2.  I read a lot about 4-stroke vibration and people installing engine mounts that dissipate the vibrations with various methods.  Should I do so?
 Are there any measures that I can take w/ the GP OEM mount that can improve the handling of the vibrations, if necessary?  If not, what do you suggest for a new mount, I believe there are some off-the-shelf "soft" mounts, but know nothing about them and their effectiveness, usage, installation, etc.? 

3.  The GP Big Stik 60 comes with a 420cc (~14oz.) fuel tank.  Do you think that it is sufficient to handle a 10-12 minute flight? If not, what size would you suggest? (I was thinking about a Sullivan "Flex" tank if I upgrade).

Many thanks in advance!

Don
Old 07-02-2010, 03:56 PM
  #17802  
Hobbsy
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

The Saito 1.00 will burn about 1 oz per minute at full throttle the 14 is plenty. The 1.00s "vibrations" are not vibrations at all but tortional impulses cased by strong power pulses and a light engine. Bolt it as solidly as you can, the stiffer the mounts the better.
Old 07-02-2010, 07:59 PM
  #17803  
wyo69cowboy
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That sounds just like my 100! I replaced the bearings, and now it runs and idles fine, but has no top end; my 82 spins a 14x4w or 15x4w harder! From what I've gathered, it sounds like my (and maybe your) cam timing is retarded. Just haven't had time to pull it out and re time it; hope that solves it. Kinda disappointed in mine so far...
Old 07-02-2010, 08:22 PM
  #17804  
w8ye
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Retarded valve timing gives a good top end and a poor bottom end

Advanced timing give good idle but poor top end
Old 07-02-2010, 11:03 PM
  #17805  
wyo69cowboy
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ok, see how well I read and comprehend? lol, well anyway, I'll take it apart and move the cam a tooth and see what happens...
Old 07-03-2010, 12:08 AM
  #17806  
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There is a timing method that uses a pin in the cam that is super easy. look else where in this forum.

L.
Old 07-03-2010, 04:08 AM
  #17807  
mike109
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G'day I have just pulled my Saito 65 apart, fitted new bearings and replaced a few broken bits. It did a spectacular nose plant into the very soft and very wet ground from about 100 feet at full power. The engine ended up about 10 inches underground. I actually had problems getting it out of the ground.

The damage was mainly to the carby and so I replaced the carby body and also one tappet cover which was smashed. As I had it apart I replaced the bearings (ceramic) with standard ones. Ceramic bearings do not take kindly to being bashed into the ground.

If you look at the cam in its housing and turn it around you will see that there is an oil hole in the cam. When this hole is lined up with the inlet valve cam follower (the one on the right when viewed from the front of the engine), the timing mark will be pointing down as it should be at TDC. So, if you remove the cam follower and put one of the pushrods down through the cam follower's cylinder and engage it with the oil hole, the timing will be right. Now all you have to do is hold the crank at TDC and lower the pinned cam into place. And Voila.

Then to check that the timing is right, put the cylinder back in place, adjust the valve clearances and with the valve covers removed, turn the engine until one valve is opening and the other is closing. This is called the "overlap". At one point, the two rockers will be parallal, ie one valve is half open and the other is half closed. At this point, the crankshaft should be at TDC. If it is not, you are one or more teeth out.

If your engine is assembled, you can do this check by just removing the valve covers, removing the carby and removing the backplate. This will allow you to see thee valve overlap and the position of the crank.

Oh and why did my plane crash? It was an old much rebuilt trainer which I had not flown for a while and I suspect the battery moved and unplugged its self. These days I use heat shrink on battery connections but had not on this old model. We live and learn.

Mike in Oz
Old 07-03-2010, 04:26 AM
  #17808  
FNQFLYER
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Mike, check around the shops in Sydney and elsewhere and find the RCM (USA) book on overhauling Saito engines (they do one for OS as well), tells you all about timing and how to do it simply and even shows you a you beaut tool to lock the cam in place reative to the crank. Me I usea 3/32 or No40 drill justas easy and no dramas about miss timing at all
Old 07-03-2010, 05:37 AM
  #17809  
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ORIGINAL: w8ye

Add it up. If you need a slightly short stroke, figure it with the 82 crank.

You would get all the breathing ability of that big bore and the stroke would be short enough to have a Saito 50 mounting bolt pattern


Kind of like GM's smaller displacement "Quad Four" being the optional high power engine over the 2.8 Litre V-6 in the Oldsmobile Calais twenty or so years ago. Even though it had less displacement. The four valve per cylinder (4) let it produce more power/torque than its larger cousin the 2.8 Litre V-6.

GM had to detune the Quad Four to 215 HP. The original configuration was over 250 HP and was trashing the transaxles.


Ed Cregger
Old 07-03-2010, 08:09 AM
  #17810  
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C'mon Ed share the zero stroke story when you have time,i like a good giggle
Old 07-03-2010, 09:36 AM
  #17811  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Hobbsy,

Many thanks!

Don
Old 07-03-2010, 06:41 PM
  #17812  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

G'day

I will look for the book you mentioned.

The biggest problem I ever have with rebuilding Saitos is getting the prop driver off the taper. These days I borrow a friend's really neat and really old puller which positively clamps on to the prop driver for a good solid pull on the driver. I wish I could find another one like it.

As for the timing, mine came out perfect first time this time. The "pin the cam with a drill or similar" method works for me. I just use one of the pushrods with the smaller end in the cam hole. I ran the engine immediately after the rebuild and she was fine. Now I need a model it put it in.

Mike

Old 07-03-2010, 06:53 PM
  #17813  
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Mike
I have seen the book (red in colour, the OS is blue) still advertised by the site that sells all the old RCM stuff and even on Amazon in the second hand book section, look around the second hand book shops (on line) in Melbourne and Sydney as well
Methinks I will start looking again as well, you never know what might pop up like brand new Taipan 2.5's and Brown Jr's NIB (to name but acouple ) to mention a couple of things that have appeared over the last few months here in the red neck north. (At least our necks match the PM's hair)
Old 07-04-2010, 05:50 AM
  #17814  
Rudolph Hart
 
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ORIGINAL: w8ye

Add it up. If you need a slightly short stroke, figure it with the 82 crank.

You would get all the breathing ability of that big bore and the stroke would be short enough to have a Saito 50 mounting bolt pattern
Is it possible or desirable to do something with the 82?
Old 07-04-2010, 07:00 AM
  #17815  
w8ye
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I think the 82B is one of the best engines Saito has . . . just as it is.
Old 07-04-2010, 07:55 AM
  #17816  
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ORIGINAL: Jimmy Hoffa

Will the new metal back plate fit on the previous version of a Saito .82? My plastic one is broken so I thought it might be a good time to upgrade if possible.
Thanks,
Phillip
Yes the newer 82B alloy backplate fits in place of the plastic backplate on both the 72A and 82A and has clearance using sealer (no gasket) between crank/rod bigend and inner surface of backplate.Carb screws required are 3x20mm cap screws,however the carb mounting lug on the alloy back plate sits a mill or so further out and a couple or so millimeter when using the inlet stack causing the inlet tube flange/washer to sit away from the cylinder inlet "o"-ring requiring at least 3 flange washers at cylinder end to snug up.A better alternative is to mill the measured clearance from the backplate lug or very carefully file/glass down the amount required keeping the lug carb mounting surface square.
I have replaced both my 72 and 82 with the newer "B" alloy backplate,never did like the plastic back plates and replaced them as soon as the newer back plate became available.
Old 07-04-2010, 08:17 AM
  #17817  
Hobbsy
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Jim, I re-visited my 1st Saito .30, the one I loaned to Bill Robison for a while. It took 50 minutes to run 16oz of 10% WildCat through it, in fact I mowed the lawn while it at 7,000 rpm. It turns a Graupner 10x5.5 at 10,450 rpm and idles perfectly at 2,200 usiong a Taipan fourstroke plug. I have a longing to have another Sig LT 25 with a nose gear, I have a tail dragger one with an Enya .25 Diesel. Need to cover the wing on it though.

Woops, wrong picture.
Old 07-04-2010, 08:26 AM
  #17818  
w8ye
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I have three 30's that I need to do something with. I've also had OS and Magnum 30's but the Saito's are better.
Old 07-04-2010, 08:26 AM
  #17819  
w8ye
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I have three 30's that I need to do something with. I've also had OS and Magnum 30's but the Saito's are better.
Old 07-04-2010, 09:05 AM
  #17820  
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I have a NIB 30 GK that I need to put in something.

Jim suggested a Sig Kobra for a small 2 stroke engine that I have, but maybe the .30 would be a better choice for it.

Dave, it that the engine that he painted black without telling you?
Old 07-04-2010, 08:39 PM
  #17821  
Rudolph Hart
 
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You may like to look at the pheonix rainbow,it's perfect for the saito 30.
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Old 07-04-2010, 09:17 PM
  #17822  
w8ye
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Here's a USA source for the model?

http://www.hobby-lobby.com/kadett_176876_prd1.htm

63" wingspan, 43-1/4" long, 744 sq. in. wing area, 57 oz. flying weight. 11 oz. per sq. ft.

Hobby Lobby does a pretty good gouge on the price at $200 as it is actually a Phoenix and should be just slightly over $100 because it doesn't come with anything electric.


Old 07-04-2010, 09:40 PM
  #17823  
w8ye
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A EU source

http://shop.graupner.de/webuerp/servlet/AI?ARTN=9574

Ripmax had it as a Pheonix at one time but it comes up blank now.


Tower carries Pheonix but they do not carry this plane.

Old 07-04-2010, 10:33 PM
  #17824  
mike early
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The saito 30 would be perfect for Great Planes Combat warbirds. The P-47 has a thick wing and can fly very slow. Or the P-51 can haul the mail. Then there's 3 others to choose from.

I am waiting for some E-flite electric retracts to put in the combat spitfire, with my Saito 40. The 40 has plenty of power to spare for these birds.
Old 07-04-2010, 10:40 PM
  #17825  
mike early
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If I had 2 Saito .30's I'd for sure find a twin engine warbird. Maybe one made for electric if that's all I could find.

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