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Welcome to Club SAITO !

Old 07-25-2010, 08:24 AM
  #17976  
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You have a very good engine. No one ever seems to complain about them. They just run well.

Do you want to be a club member??? If you order today, it's free!
Old 07-26-2010, 08:50 AM
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Jeez cuz i could be shouting you the rough end of a pineapple if your olds are coming..and you'll need the vegemite yourself

Hows the bearing change on the 180 going? your ds821's will do the job?
Old 07-26-2010, 07:20 PM
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Gentlemen: I've come across a peculiar problem lately with first my 125, and now my 180. Sometimes I come in for a high-speed low pass and cut the throttle because I like to hear the engine being drivien by the wind. I finally had to stop doing that with my 125 because even though the engine would still be turning, the engine would lose it's fire and throttle stick would be dead. So, I'd have to find a place to set it down off the field and hope for the best. Needless to say, some damage was incurred. Today, my 180 did the same thing, after about 4-5 high-speed, idle-position throttle, it died and I had to set it down and more minor damage to deal with.


This has never happened in any of my 6 saitos until this year. And now it's happened to two different ones. On the 125, I just avoid that little maneuver and never have any problems with it. I guess I could avoid this on all of them, but I'd rather know what's going on and maybe remedy the problem. I've changed plugs, muffler set-ups, fuel, richened it, leaned it...

Any ideas?
Old 07-26-2010, 07:35 PM
  #17979  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Have you checked the valves lately? Have you raised the idle?

Bob
Old 07-26-2010, 07:36 PM
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Do you have the vent line attached to the muffler? I so, and there is a small leak in the line you could be loosing fuel tank positive pressure. Thus starving the engine. This is just a guess. Others might have experienced this problem and have better solutions.
Old 07-26-2010, 08:24 PM
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If the vent/pressure line were the culprit, wouldn't it happen at any throttle setting?

Bob
Old 07-26-2010, 08:29 PM
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Not necessarily. The Saito 1.80 is known to have a very good draw when it is above idle. Anything from 1/4 throttle and above doesn't really need fuel tank pressure.
Old 07-26-2010, 08:43 PM
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I still think fuel tank pressure is overrated. As long as the tank isn't starved for pressure/venting, it should be just fine. Many years ago we didn't use pressure at all becaues we didn't have mufflers. The pressure line probably just gives the engine a steadier run over variable throttle settings.

I'll find out if I'm correct in my asumption when I run my ASP 4.00 4-stroke radial on twin vents alone.

Bob
Old 07-26-2010, 09:50 PM
  #17984  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Gentelmen.
This is my first Saito so I'm trying to get it right.
It came with my P 51 Hangar 9 Blue nose of RCuniverse.

I got a hang of starting it but have some questions

Theengine was new and broken inby the builder (four tanks)
High rpm at 8450 with a 16prop
eats up half a tank (14oz)in 5 min at half throttle.
I'm concerened that she my use up to much as well as that rpm want get the P51 (11.2 lbs) off the graound.

Are those nr right?
Cheers
Old 07-26-2010, 10:24 PM
  #17985  
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You didn't give the displacement of the engine or the prop pitch.

Bob
Old 07-26-2010, 10:37 PM
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ORIGINAL: tonidanbv

Gentelmen.
This is my first Saito so I'm trying to get it right.
It came with my P 51 Hangar 9 Blue nose of RCuniverse.

I got a hang of starting it but have some questions

Theengine was new and broken inby the builder (four tanks)
High rpm at 8450 with a 16prop
eats up half a tank (14oz)in 5 min at half throttle.
I'm concerened that she my use up to much as well as that rpm want get the P51 (11.2 lbs) off the graound.

Are those nr right?
Cheers
You need to adjust your needle valves

Old 07-27-2010, 06:32 AM
  #17987  
 
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ORIGINAL: retransit

I still think fuel tank pressure is overrated. As long as the tank isn't starved for pressure/venting, it should be just fine. Many years ago we didn't use pressure at all becaues we didn't have mufflers. The pressure line probably just gives the engine a steadier run over variable throttle settings.

I'll find out if I'm correct in my asumption when I run my ASP 4.00 4-stroke radial on twin vents alone.

Bob
Hi retro good comments posted above.I disagree saitos are very sensitive to fuel pressure and tank height if you want to go stupid with your flying and need to totally rely on the engine sans pumping or fuel regulaters
Old 07-27-2010, 08:03 AM
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ORIGINAL: mike early

Gentlemen: I've come across a peculiar problem lately with first my 125, and now my 180. Sometimes I come in for a high-speed low pass and cut the throttle because I like to hear the engine being drivien by the wind. I finally had to stop doing that with my 125 because even though the engine would still be turning, the engine would lose it's fire and throttle stick would be dead. So, I'd have to find a place to set it down off the field and hope for the best. Needless to say, some damage was incurred. Today, my 180 did the same thing, after about 4-5 high-speed, idle-position throttle, it died and I had to set it down and more minor damage to deal with.


This has never happened in any of my 6 saitos until this year. And now it's happened to two different ones. On the 125, I just avoid that little maneuver and never have any problems with it. I guess I could avoid this on all of them, but I'd rather know what's going on and maybe remedy the problem. I've changed plugs, muffler set-ups, fuel, richened it, leaned it...

Any ideas?

I realize this could be avoided with on-board glow....but It's never happened before. I also realize that most people don't do this maneuver to see if it would happen to them. Perhaps at the bottom of a LARGE loop is a similar situation, where full throttle for the first half and then idling on the down-leg.


There must be a reason that it happens.....
Old 07-27-2010, 09:30 AM
  #17989  
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Being as you have two engines that do this, it is something you are doing in the way the needles are set perhaps?

I have these same engines but not the cutting off problem.

I figure your actual full throttle mixture is too lean in flight. And a sudden chop of the throttle from WOT shuts the engine down?

You could also program in a flight idle and a landing idle. Keep the plane on high idle until you get read to land and on approach switch to your low idle?
Old 07-27-2010, 09:48 AM
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Two engines doing the same thing?

Are you after a specific idle that may be too low on both engines?

Tuning the same way on the low speed needle?

Have you tried another jug of fuel?
Old 07-27-2010, 10:03 AM
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It is possible that I don't richen the high end enough on the ground before flying....but I always have a slight smoke trail and never cut out from getting too hot.
I have tried to richen the bottom end and top end during my experimentation stage, but it did it again... The 180 did it on a new bottle of fuel. Even though I have changed plugs, none of them have been brand-new plugs..... The plugs are getting a little aged, perhaps. But I've never had a Type-F go bad yet.

If I avoid these cut-throttle high-speed passes, there's no issues at all. Great power, great idle, great transition..... The .40, .72, .82 and .91 have not experienced this issue....yet
Old 07-27-2010, 10:16 AM
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Most of my Saito's essentially have a richer mid range than top speed. I have 5 of the 125's and they seem to still run at top speed without backfiring even though they are rather lean.

When I spot this, I usually just throttle back some for I have the 125's I use in 60 size planes. And I have been know to land and tough up the needle valve. I have also seen that if you slowly close the throttle that they are not as prone to quit. I mean like take two seconds to close the throttle rather than whacking it off as quick as you can

I was flying all yesterday and the temperature changes during the day caused the engine to run diffferent and for me to readjust the high needle.

Good luck
Old 07-27-2010, 10:26 AM
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Need some ideas for a Saito 125. Last season engine worked great. Over last winter I spun the prop by hand and there was no compression. It turns out one of the valves was stuck open because a push rod popped out of the rocker. I didn't know why it did that but I put the pushrod back... compression returned. This flying season I flew the plane and it appeared to have lost some power. I tacked it at about 7100 peak RPM with an APC 15x8. This seems low to me so I'm thinking something else is going on.... could the valve spring have been weakened if compressed for several months? Other ideas?

Thanks,
Al
Old 07-27-2010, 10:48 AM
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That is low

I would be looking at that exhaust valve about it still sticking?

Take off the valve cover and put some penetrating oil around the stem and work the valve by hand.

You might pull the exhaust pipe and look in the hole at the valve stem if there is a blob of carbon on the valve stem.
Old 07-27-2010, 11:19 AM
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ORIGINAL: w8ye

I have 5 of the 125'. I have also seen that if you slowly close the throttle that they are not as prone to quit. I mean like take two seconds to close the throttle rather than whacking it off as quick as you can


Good luck
That's a lot of Saito 125s! Do you run the MA 14x9x3blade on any of them? I love that prop.

I realize that sometimes slow throttle stick transition is good for advancing throttle (although I can tune so it can take immediate WOT from idle), but I've never heard of slowing closing the throttle, or any reason for it. But, that just might be the ticket. I'll try that when the sting of the recent repairs fades a little....


Old 07-27-2010, 11:21 AM
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

The rocker the pushrod dislodged from was caused by a sticky valve although as w8ye has said check for carbon on the exhaust valve stem and work both valves with a dosing of oil applied to the junction of valve guide/stem.I have found after a lengthy storage the inlet valve gets sticky in it's guide.I have also checked valve spring free length after a lengthy period with one valve held open and both springs measured the same length.I always turn a single fourstroke to TDC compression (both vaves closed) after running at end of days use and prior to storage by habit for the very reason of not wanting to keep one spring compressed.
Check and set valve clearance while your at it.
Carby barrells can get sticky after storage check its free and fully opening.
Old 07-27-2010, 12:25 PM
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

If the engines cutting out on idle just started happening to two different engines my first suspect would be the fuel. Second would be glow plugs. They do wear out eventually. Try a brand new plug and see if it still happens.
Old 07-27-2010, 01:25 PM
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I run the 15 X 8, 16 X 6, and 17 X 4W depending on the plane

The engine runs too fast with a 17 X 4W unless I have the nose up

All two blade. i do not own any three blade props. Possibly nothing wrong with them I just don't own any.
Old 07-27-2010, 01:34 PM
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If you ever feel the need to divest yourself of some of those excess engines...
Old 07-27-2010, 02:18 PM
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Will do

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