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Old 10-06-2010, 09:03 AM
  #18601  
Jimmy Hoffa
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ORIGINAL: Cherokee Flyer
I have never seen the need for the additional cost.

L.
You would if you were doing 3D with a Saito .82 in a 7 pound plane.

Phillip
Old 10-06-2010, 03:23 PM
  #18602  
Tarasdad
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I've never run over 10% nitro in my Saito and never had a single complaint.
Old 10-06-2010, 06:05 PM
  #18603  
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We had this discussion before and everybody reccomended me to use 10%. I am doing just that and my FS100 is flying great.
Old 10-06-2010, 07:56 PM
  #18604  
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what the heck I like 15 percent but I know lots of guys using 20 percent..I think the engines love the stuff.
Old 10-06-2010, 07:59 PM
  #18605  
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I've used them all and the Saito runs fine either way. It just has the most power on 30 Heli. I like them well on 20-20 also. If you like performance, I think the 20-20 is the most bang for the buck. They are not that much stronger on 30 heli.

But I usually run 10%
Old 10-06-2010, 08:18 PM
  #18606  
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15% seems to be the middle of the road fuel from what most people say here.
Old 10-06-2010, 08:43 PM
  #18607  
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I must admit that I am old fashioned, I still belive that airplanes should fly on the wing. Having said that, yes, I would still use 15% because I get plenty of power out of my engines to pull any airplane that I want to fly in that manner straight up as far as I can see it. Try it you might like it!

L.
Old 10-06-2010, 10:55 PM
  #18608  
Jimmy Hoffa
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ORIGINAL: Cherokee Flyer

I must admit that I am old fashioned, I still belive that airplanes should fly on the wing. Having said that, yes, I would still use 15% because I get plenty of power out of my engines to pull any airplane that I want to fly in that manner straight up as far as I can see it. Try it you might like it!

L.
I'm not old fashioned (just old) and enjoy flying on the prop. A sport pattern flyer probably doesn't need very much nitro and that is great. I can tell you that the difference between 20% and 30% is 500 rpms, a more reliable and lower idle, easier tuning and a more responsive throttle. The downside, wasted $$$ if you don't need/want it.

We are comparing two different requirements and that is Okay.

My Saito .82 is now in a 4.5 lb 3D profile plane and I'm very happy that 15% provides plenty of power. My fuel cost is less than half compared to 30% and the plane fly's great.

Phillip
Old 10-07-2010, 12:36 AM
  #18609  
mike109
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G'day Spadeworm. I have two Saito 120s engines and both are silver versions. Both came out of the box with gold tappet covers. One is a parts engine so I put the pretty gold tappet covers on my Saito 150S which is black and has silver tappet covers (or rather it did). It now looks like a GK with its black paint and Gold covers.
Old 10-07-2010, 12:40 AM
  #18610  
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They used to come this way with the valve covers
Old 10-07-2010, 04:32 AM
  #18611  
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For the record I have run my Saito 65 on 0 % nitro  10% nitro (for fun) 15% Nitro (CD supplied for Texaco contest)  30% Heli(to get the heart pumping, and 40% to beat the pants of a young smart arse.  That caused so palpatations, a Feathermerchant (weight 3.75 pounds) going vertical from model release (well 85 degrees), but I have to say now that every one has cottoned on to that act the nitro percentage has gone up 5% which according to our resident chemist (a real one) is just about the max effective percentage for max performance.  Mind you we run 60% in OS 61's (much modified) and I would caution any one contemplating these mixes to do a "end of day run" to tank empty with standard FAI fuel (4:1 no nitro) followed by after run oil.  Has worked well for us "fun flyers" out here with minimual engine rebuilds due to bearing failure    
Old 10-07-2010, 08:17 AM
  #18612  
cloudancer03
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I have always run my four strokes as a rule on 15 percent nitro.when I had 2 strokers they ran fine on 5 percent.my electrics I use zero percent nitro.lol.
Old 10-07-2010, 09:22 AM
  #18613  
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Back some time ago, I went to a soccer event in Nitro, WV. The air there, living up to it's name, was so laden with unburned hydrocarbons that I think an engine designed for 30% nitro would have run just fine on FAI fuel.[&o] I am sure (?) the air quality is much improved now.

Sincerely, Richard
Old 10-11-2010, 01:47 PM
  #18614  
Jimmy Hoffa
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To me, 30% is like a crew cab 4x4 dually truck. If you have to have it, there is no substitute. If not, you are just blowing cash going to the grocery store in it.

Phillip
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Old 10-12-2010, 12:35 AM
  #18615  
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But it is so sweet and petite! (smile)


Ed Cregger
Old 10-12-2010, 06:56 AM
  #18616  
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That is a small one. Before the economy tanked, there were two of these in my neighborhood. They actually went to the grocery store with them! If they had Saitos they would probably run them on 60%!
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Old 10-12-2010, 07:48 AM
  #18617  
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Hey that would be an ideal driver if you felt like telling the world to get stuffed.30% nitro is fun mate
Old 10-12-2010, 08:52 AM
  #18618  
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My first cousin had one like the smaller one for a few years. She went to the grocery in it too. She pulled a big horse trailer with it.
Old 10-12-2010, 10:16 AM
  #18619  
Jimmy Hoffa
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If you have to pull a big horse trailer or 35' boat, you got no choice. Just like if you fly 3D with a Saito .82 in a 7 lb plane, 30% is my "big dually".

I remember a scientific test several years ago in Fly RC magazine on a Saito 1.25. It was verified true that higher nitro runs cooler than lower nitro content. More nitro does require a richer needle setting so that could be a factor. For those that worry about high nitro wearing the engine out sooner, IMHO, nitro in itself does not wear out the motor. I think extra power wears out the motor sooner. My theory is that if you run high nitro but do not operate at the maximum power level there should be no difference in engine life between 5% and 30%.

A lot of people on this thread constantly state, "I run 10% (or 15%) and it runs just fine". I wonder how many of you guys have actually run 30%? Here's a tip of what you will get; lower and more reliable idle, quicker throttle response and more hp. On my Saito .82's with an APC 14x4W I would tach 10K rpm with YS 20-20. 30% would peak at 10.5K rpm and get there quicker.
Old 10-12-2010, 10:18 AM
  #18620  
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These days I'd need to buy the elevator option just to get up and into the cab!


Ed Cregger
Old 10-12-2010, 10:34 AM
  #18621  
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ORIGINAL: Jimmy Hoffa

If you have to pull a big horse trailer or 35' boat, you got no choice. Just like if you fly 3D with a Saito .82 in a 7 lb plane, 30% is my ''big dually''.

I remember a scientific test several years ago in Fly RC magazine on a Saito 1.25. It was verified true that higher nitro runs cooler than lower nitro content. More nitro does require a richer needle setting so that could be a factor. For those that worry about high nitro wearing the engine out sooner, IMHO, nitro in itself does not wear out the motor. I think extra power wears out the motor sooner. My theory is that if you run high nitro but do not operate at the maximum power level there should be no difference in engine life between 5% and 30%.

A lot of people on this thread constantly state, ''I run 10% (or 15%) and it runs just fine''. I wonder how many of you guys have actually run 30%? Here's a tip of what you will get; lower and more reliable idle, quicker throttle response and more hp. On my Saito .82's with an APC 14x4W I would tach 10K rpm with YS 20-20. 30% would peak at 10.5K rpm and get there quicker.


Four-stroke glow engines changed the nitro paradygm in modeling. Many of we oldest farts used to run an occasional can of Fox Missile Mist (25% nitro) through our two-strokes back in the old days. It did all of the things that you stated occurs in four-strokes, with the exception of making radically more power. Sport two-strokes make a little more power burning 25% nitromethane, but not a whole lot. What the higher nitro did do was to be consumed a whole lot faster than lower nitro fuel. That still happens today with glow two-strokes. Granted, four-stroke model engines do seem to realize a greater amount of power being produced as the amount of nitromethane goes up. But, they too burn more fuel as the nitro amount increases.
For flying the average sport model (non 3D), there really isn't much of an advantage to burning 30% heli fuel, even in a four-stroke glow engine. Flying 3D might be a different matter.

Saito engines ran much better on 5% nitro fuel back when they had higher compression. That seems like forever ago these days. Then someone got the brilliant idea of lowering the compression ratio in order to sell more high nitro fuel (Horizon - Saito doesn't sell fuel in the US). The sad part was that they could have left the engines alone and simply sold a thicker cylinder base gasket to those nitro freaks that needed to lower the compression. The once mighty "Saito thump" of the Saito engine's exhaust has been gone ever since they lowered the compression so that the inept nitro lover could burn his toxic gruel fuel without modifying his engine. "Credit Card Hot Rodders" won the battle.

Now that credit card interest rates have exceeded 30%, I wonder how many modelers are still flexing their cards to buy hobby gear?


Ed Cregger
Old 10-12-2010, 10:34 AM
  #18622  
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ORIGINAL: Jimmy Hoffa

If you have to pull a big horse trailer or 35' boat, you got no choice. Just like if you fly 3D with a Saito .82 in a 7 lb plane, 30% is my "big dually".

I remember a scientific test several years ago in Fly RC magazine on a Saito 1.25. It was verified true that higher nitro runs cooler than lower nitro content. More nitro does require a richer needle setting so that could be a factor. For those that worry about high nitro wearing the engine out sooner, IMHO, nitro in itself does not wear out the motor. I think extra power wears out the motor sooner. My theory is that if you run high nitro but do not operate at the maximum power level there should be no difference in engine life between 5% and 30%.

A lot of people on this thread constantly state, "I run 10% (or 15%) and it runs just fine". I wonder how many of you guys have actually run 30%? Here's a tip of what you will get; lower and more reliable idle, quicker throttle response and more hp. On my Saito .82's with an APC 14x4W I would tach 10K rpm with YS 20-20. 30% would peak at 10.5K rpm and get there quicker.
I've run it and like it. I think 20-20 is the most bang for the buck

But overall, I opt for the cheaper way out and run 10% nitro and get along just fine.

Old 10-12-2010, 10:34 AM
  #18623  
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ORIGINAL: Jimmy Hoffa

If you have to pull a big horse trailer or 35' boat, you got no choice. Just like if you fly 3D with a Saito .82 in a 7 lb plane, 30% is my "big dually".

I remember a scientific test several years ago in Fly RC magazine on a Saito 1.25. It was verified true that higher nitro runs cooler than lower nitro content. More nitro does require a richer needle setting so that could be a factor. For those that worry about high nitro wearing the engine out sooner, IMHO, nitro in itself does not wear out the motor. I think extra power wears out the motor sooner. My theory is that if you run high nitro but do not operate at the maximum power level there should be no difference in engine life between 5% and 30%.

A lot of people on this thread constantly state, "I run 10% (or 15%) and it runs just fine". I wonder how many of you guys have actually run 30%? Here's a tip of what you will get; lower and more reliable idle, quicker throttle response and more hp. On my Saito .82's with an APC 14x4W I would tach 10K rpm with YS 20-20. 30% would peak at 10.5K rpm and get there quicker.
I've run it and like it. I think 20-20 is the most bang for the buck

But overall, I opt for the cheaper way out and run 10% nitro and get along just fine.

Old 10-12-2010, 10:50 AM
  #18624  
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ORIGINAL: Jimmy Hoffa

If you have to pull a big horse trailer or 35' boat, you got no choice. Just like if you fly 3D with a Saito .82 in a 7 lb plane, 30% is my ''big dually''.

I remember a scientific test several years ago in Fly RC magazine on a Saito 1.25. It was verified true that higher nitro runs cooler than lower nitro content. More nitro does require a richer needle setting so that could be a factor. For those that worry about high nitro wearing the engine out sooner, IMHO, nitro in itself does not wear out the motor. I think extra power wears out the motor sooner. My theory is that if you run high nitro but do not operate at the maximum power level there should be no difference in engine life between 5% and 30%.

A lot of people on this thread constantly state, ''I run 10% (or 15%) and it runs just fine''. I wonder how many of you guys have actually run 30%? Here's a tip of what you will get; lower and more reliable idle, quicker throttle response and more hp. On my Saito .82's with an APC 14x4W I would tach 10K rpm with YS 20-20. 30% would peak at 10.5K rpm and get there quicker.

Nitro NEED (as opposes to WANT) as I understand it is compression ratio related. Some of my 2 strokes will not run on nitro fuel but run just fine on FAI fuel. They are "high compression" engines I guess designed for use where nitro is not used. No one has ever told me what CR NEEDs what nitro. Can you? I do not need or necessarilly want the most possible perfromance so I neither need or want high nitro fuel. I mix my own FAI fuel.

This is not to say high nito fuel is not wanted or needed by many fliers, so don't get me wrong here.

I am still looking for octane NEEDs for gas engines. I use Coleman camp fuel with Pennzoil in my G23 and plan to try it in other gassers also. Some say they use premium gas primarilly because of the additives and higher consistency. Some use avgas for the same reason and also storage stability. Some say octane value is not a consideration in our small engines. Other say the higher performance engines need it. ??????????????????????? Looking for comments/inputs.

Thank you for your inputs.

Sincerely, Richard
Old 10-12-2010, 11:02 AM
  #18625  
NM2K
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Consider the fact that whatever petroleum based fuel we burn in our gas/spark engines, the octane will be seriously lowered by unit volume by the oil we add to keep from burning up our engines. So, to me, it isn't surprising that virtually any petroleum goop will run somewhat satisfactorily in our model gas engines.

I have several more unopened gallons of Coleman Fuel to consume, but I'm not sure that I will burn it in my gas engines. While I like its long lasting storage ability and its odor is infinitely preferable to that of gasoline, I'm not crazy about the reduced amount of power that it generates. It would do in a pinch. I haven't tried burning it in a utility four-stroke as yet. Don't know if I'm gonna take the chance.


Ed Cregger

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