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Welcome to Club SAITO !

Old 03-09-2006, 09:50 PM
  #2026  
gjeffers
 
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OH NOTim, you done it now[X(] i just hope no one sees me and thinks im an OS man, this could be doomsday for me now
Old 03-09-2006, 10:15 PM
  #2027  
William Robison
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Gsry:

Tim just doesn't understand that you only wear your "Oh Shi...." uh, I mean your "Oh Shoot!" hat after you've crashed a plane.

Haw.

Or does it stand for "Overpriced Scrap?"

Bill.
Old 03-09-2006, 10:42 PM
  #2028  
goneflyin
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

I am new to four strokes, and just purchased a .72 and a .82 for two planes I have on the go right now. I was wondering about fuel. Do I need to purchase 4-stroke fuel or what? What are you guys running for fuel. Also I heard that after every day I flying I should inject some after run oil into the breather nipple, what are your thouhgts on this.

Thanks.
Old 03-09-2006, 10:49 PM
  #2029  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

I use WildCat Premium Extra 10% nitro fuel and Corrosion X for afterrun oil but there are many many options as you'll soon find out.
Old 03-09-2006, 10:53 PM
  #2030  
William Robison
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Gone:

You will get a lot of arguments about nitro percfentage.Some say 30% is what brings a Saito to life, I am happy running 15% in mine, and Hobbsy has just run some experiments that suggest anything over 5% is wasted.

Just PLEASE be sure to have some castor oil in the lubricant, and at least 18% total oil.

Bill.
Old 03-09-2006, 10:57 PM
  #2031  
William Robison
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Oh, yes. The after run oil.

When you're finished for the day give it a big slug in the case vent, then spin the engine for 15-20 seconds with the starter. This will coat everything inside, and don't worry about putting too much in. Any excess will blow out as you spin the engine.

Bill.
Old 03-10-2006, 12:02 AM
  #2032  
rcfury
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Just a quick question. i bought the Saito 1.25 as my second saito in the family, The 1.00 being the first. I broke the saito 100 on my plane which was mounted inverted etc. My 1.25 i want to break it in on the stand first so i can use my new PSP test stand i got for my birthday. So how do you prime a saito when its mouted upright without having fuel dumping all over the place. As the carb is facing down.
Without getting a good prime I cant handstart it, as my stock electric starter dont have enough juice to push over the big 125. For the time till my new starter comes in wanna run this baby!!!
Old 03-10-2006, 12:14 AM
  #2033  
William Robison
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Nathan:

Put your finger over the exhaust and flip the engine forward until you get the fuel to the carb.

Now here's where you slap your forehead, and say "Why didn't I think of that?"

Holding your finger still closing the exhaust, flip the engine backwards, pull the fuel up the pressure line and into the muffler. As you continue flipping (still backwards) the fuel will be pulled into the cylinder.

Yes, you do have to point the exhaust up for this to work.

Bill.
Old 03-10-2006, 12:18 AM
  #2034  
William Robison
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And rcfury is Club Saito member number 225.

Bill.
Old 03-10-2006, 07:14 AM
  #2035  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Rcfury,
Congrats on your PSP test stand.
Those are VERY nice.
I'm jealous!
JLK
Old 03-10-2006, 08:29 AM
  #2036  
Jack211
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Bill, if the velocity stack/filter combination is such a great idea, why doesn't Saito make it a production item, standard? After nearly a year with two Saito engines, both of which WERE the filthiest/oilyest engines I dealt with, constantly dripping, I can't believe somebody in Saito engineering isn't saying, "You know, we really ought to make a velocity stack standard on all Saitos Jack211 (or anybody ELSE!) might consider buying." The fuel economy alone, the environment and all, is worth THEIR effort, to say nothing of ours. It's a major fault in the Saito design, I'm thinking.

I've learned to deal with castor emissions on my birds, but it's the worst problem with fuel engines as far as I'm concerned--and because the Saitos were the worst of them, I was ready to give up on 4 strokes--or look for one that ran cleaner, more efficiently.

I do hope some Saito engineer is reading the Club Saito thread.

J.
Old 03-10-2006, 11:34 AM
  #2037  
BQuartucy
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Ran across this forum looking for advice. First please add my name to the Saito club list. I have an early .65, a new 40, and a brand new 180. It's the 180 that I have the questions about.
I am putting it in a GP P-6E and it will be inverted with glow heater on under 1/4 throttle. I know it will be overpowered but my new 14MZ radio came equipted with a throttle . Since the weight for a 120 is almost as much as the 180, Iwould rather have a heavier engine than a useless hunk of lead for balance.
I plan to use the Mejzlik 3 bladed prop in the 16-16 1/2 dia x 8-10 pitch range. Any thoughts or comments will be appreciated.



"It's never to late to have a happy childhood"
Besides if I don't spend it now my kids will when I'm gone
Old 03-10-2006, 01:13 PM
  #2038  
William Robison
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

BQuartucy:

Just casually blew $2K on a fancy radio? I'm jealous, and you are member number 226 in Club Saito.

Welcome. After all, misery loves company. Or is it just that we are the few able to decide on the best engines?

The latter is the correct one. Haw.

A 16x8 two blade prop is the "Nominal" prop for the FA-180, adding the third blade may well be too much. Stay with the three blade if you wish, but go down in pitch. I'd try 6" pitch, you will have about 40 mph air speed with it and not overload the engine.

Bill.
Old 03-10-2006, 01:31 PM
  #2039  
William Robison
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Jack:

It's not just the Saito engines that benefit from the intake stack. My first experiment was on a two stroke, a Magnum 25 GP. I'm still running that engine, and it is both cleaner and more economical than it was when new. Almost any piston engine will have an amount of back spray at some point in its operating range.

So why not standard equipment? Many people don't even think about back spray, they think it's blowing back from the exhaust, they spilled some fuel, or just don't think about it at all.

The stack alone does some good, but for the greatest gain the sir filter has to be added.

Saito could include the stack at no great added production cost, but the air filter would require dealing with an outside company, or starting production on their own filters.

So, bottom line, it's cost, even though I think it would be a great marketing device, possibly an add-on accessory "Economy Kit" or something similar.

But since they are selling all they can make, why bother?

Bill.
Old 03-10-2006, 06:15 PM
  #2040  
Fred Dings II
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

JACK211

I read your post with interest and since you fly on the Upper Peninsula with downtrodden you have to be a good guy.
It gets pretty cold up there. In the winter I fly Morgan Fuel's cool power because it is a totally synthetic fuel (no caster oil coating on the plane) and they flat out say no after run oil is needed. In the summer I fly Omega. In my O.S. engines I seldom use after run oil except after disassembly. In my YS engines I use no after run oil ever, as a petroleum based lube eats the regulator plunger.

However, in the Saitos I used Marvel Mystery Oil and ran a piece of tubing from the crankcase vent to a bulkhead fitting made by Tettra and after a day's run, I inject MMO into the bulkhead fitting with a plastic gluing syringe. (monoject #412 from Tower Hobbies. )

Regards, FRED


Old 03-10-2006, 07:34 PM
  #2041  
Jack211
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ORIGINAL: William Robison

[b]Jack:

But since they are selling all they can make, why bother?
It's that last sentence that bothers ME. I suspect Bill, as usual, has put his finger on the main point. When my father bought me my first .410, prefaced by a long, long speech on gun safety, he said, "And I don't ever want to see a speck of rust on this tool. If you mess up the good work those Winchester boys did on this gun, I'll have no time for ya."

It's all about attitude, not money. Make 'em right; maintain 'em right. If the Winchester boys (the OLD Winchester boys) had made Saitos, they would have put in a velocity stack because it was the right thing for the tool, which is what a Saito engine is to those of us who use them.

I know what my father would say about buying another Saito. And if Bill's right about their attitude, they'll soon be making more Saitos than they can sell. Maybe then they'll start building their engines right. Meanwhile, I'll keep my Saitos. Bill Robison has saved their arses, with a 10 buck, 1/2 hour fix. If Bill had made the Saitos, we KNOW he would have included a velocity stack--and filter, to heck with cost. Money passed between folks is the old hand shake, a contract writ in stone: you reward me for building the tool right; I'll reward you with a dependable item that'll see you through heck and back.

J.

P.S. Oh, I hear a lot of good old boys saying "Say-Toe" when they pronounce Saito. In Japanese "sai" is prounced "sigh." So it is "Sigh-toe." Were it pronouced Seito, it would be like the Japanese watch, the Seiko. Curse AT it or swear BY it, you may as well pronounce Saito correctly.

J.
Old 03-10-2006, 09:55 PM
  #2042  
EMVIN
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Can anyone tell me how many pounds of thrust the 220 puts out. I have a 220 ready to install in a Goldberg Yak 54 77", but I want to 3d this plane. I need about a 2-1 ratio. The plane should weigh around 13+/-LB....
Old 03-10-2006, 10:08 PM
  #2043  
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Bill, im changing the bearings in my 100 and upon disasembly i found two little dimples on my cam right at the ramps, my camera isnt fine enough to get a good shot soooooooo could i trouble you to show a pic of the cam(i know you have one) where the point of no return is and you(I) should purchase a new cam?

thanks Gary
Old 03-10-2006, 10:24 PM
  #2044  
William Robison
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Gary:

Here are some pictures. First, a new cam. Then one with a little pitting, I put this one back in service but it will be replaced next time the engine comes down. Third picture is from the Donkey Doctor, it has both hammering and electrolytic damage. It's too bad to reinstall.

Proper wear marking is nothing but a polished trail where the tappets ride.

When the valve clearance is too wide the tappet rides a little way up the ramp, then the sudden load of opening the valve causes the tappet to break through the oil film. This leads to the gouges you see. Keeping the valve lash at minimum helps, and castor oil helps as much if not more. Castor oil is much more resistant to being wiped off, and leaves a much lower probability of the metal-to-metal contact that eats the holes in the cam lobe.

Hope this helps.

Bill.

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Old 03-10-2006, 10:29 PM
  #2045  
William Robison
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Gary:

Just a little more - the cam I showed with the mild pitting is in an FA-80 that had a broken valve spring, float was starting about 4K rpm. The owner kept trying to get it to turn faster. Running in valve float rpm guarantees hammering and cam damage.

Bill.
Old 03-10-2006, 10:32 PM
  #2046  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

thanks Bill, mine looks similar to the second on but much smoother, i will put it back and replace it later.
this engine has been ran 95% on powermaster 15% with 18% 50-50, so it has had lots of castor.
it is 1 1/2 years old with lots of time on it so it may have had a couple of lean runs on it so probably deserves a little wear

thanks

ps: going with the ceramics
Old 03-10-2006, 10:41 PM
  #2047  
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one more thing Bill, when i order the ceramics from rc bearings will the front bearing have the oil seal or do i need to specify it upon order?
Old 03-10-2006, 10:57 PM
  #2048  
William Robison
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Gary:

Without checking memory says the front bearing is type R6. What you want is the R6C-2RS. Firct "C" for ceramic, the "-2RS" for double rubber seals.

If Paul is out of stock on the ceramic with the double seals, get a high speed stainless bearing for the front - the seals are more important than the ceranic balls. It's the rear bearing that gets the constant hammering, stay with the ceramic in the rear.

And install the front bearing with both seals in place.

A stainless bearing in front will save you a buck or three also.

Bill.
Old 03-10-2006, 11:03 PM
  #2049  
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i want the double seal Bill? i better e mail paul because i said i wanted the single seal, i thought i wanted the inside to be open.
Old 03-10-2006, 11:13 PM
  #2050  
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ok i ordered the R6C-2RS, just e-mailed him.

Thanks

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