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Old 07-06-2012, 05:48 AM
  #22526  
SrTelemaster150
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !


ORIGINAL: Hobbsy

My m,anuals all say to start the breaking process with the throttle 1/4 to 1/4 open and 4,000 rpm for 10 minutes. Not full throttle.

I think it depends on the model & vintage of the engine.

After all, at one time Saito recommended no castor, but they have since relaxed that. spec.
Old 07-06-2012, 06:42 AM
  #22527  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !


ORIGINAL: SrTelemaster150

I think it depends on the model & vintage of the engine.

After all, at one time Saito recommended no castor, but they have since relaxed that. spec.
Why argue over good advice? Vintage-smintage.

The spec wasn't relaxed, it was corrected.
Old 07-06-2012, 07:32 AM
  #22528  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

ORIGINAL: blw


ORIGINAL: SrTelemaster150

I think it depends on the model & vintage of the engine.

After all, at one time Saito recommended no castor, but they have since relaxed that. spec.
Why argue over good advice? Vintage-smintage.

The spec wasn't relaxed, it was corrected.

How was that an argument?

Now, it seem you're the one that is arguing.

According to your viewpoint then I guess the full throttle breakin is a "correction"?

That was the subject of the post, not the fact that Saito decided to allow people that might not be adept @ tuning their engunes to run castor as insurance. I just cited the castor spec as an axample of changing specifications, just like the breakin specification.

Funny how after running many, many 4 gallon cases of (non castor) Cool Power through my FA 150, the cam lobes look better (like new) than after just a few gallons of Byron's 4-Stroke fuel W/castor resulted in a wiped out exhaust lobe when the engine was new. I'm not saying that the fuel was the absolute reason for the cam lobe failure, but if the castor is a cam lobe wear preventative, it failed miserably in my case.

You have a right to your opinion, but so do I. If castor was an absolute neccessity, then why have I not experienced any problems using a non-castor content fuel?
Old 07-06-2012, 07:40 AM
  #22529  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Read pages 7 & 8 for the Saito recommended engine break in procedure for the 200Ti inlne "V" twin engine.

http://www.horizonhobby.com/pdf/INLI...OKEENGINES.pdf
Old 07-06-2012, 09:23 AM
  #22530  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Just to jump in, synthetic is cleaner and in most cases a better lube. The advantage is if the motor runs hotter than normal, such as during a lean out. Castor tolerates much higher temps before breakdown.

'Nuff said.
Old 07-06-2012, 12:04 PM
  #22531  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !




ORIGINAL: Cougar429

Just to jump in, synthetic is cleaner and in most cases a better lube. The advantage is if the motor runs hotter than normal, such as during a lean out. Castor tolerates much higher temps before breakdown.

'Nuff said.
And castor lube also helps prevent rusty balls.
Old 07-06-2012, 01:16 PM
  #22532  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

ORIGINAL: Cougar429

Just to jump in, synthetic is cleaner and in most cases a better lube. The advantage is if the motor runs hotter than normal, such as during a lean out. Castor tolerates much higher temps before breakdown.

'Nuff said.


Just for fits & giggles I read the fuel recomendations on page 5 of the manual linked below.

ORIGINAL: SrTelemaster150

Read pages 7 & 8 for the Saito recommended engine break in procedure for the 200Ti inlne ''V'' twin engine.

http://www.horizonhobby.com/pdf/INLI...OKEENGINES.pdf

One of the 10% -15% fuels listed is (gasp) Cool Power. (100% synthetic) They go on to say, "Use of fuels composed entirely of castor oil (lubricant) is not recommended." "A mix of castor-synthetic is ACCEPTABLE."

Note the last word is "acceptable", not recommended. In other words, it's OK to run a castor-synthetic blend, but it is not recommended as a neccessity.


ORIGINAL: spaceworm


And castor lube also helps prevent rusty balls.

After 14 years of storage, my FA91 & 300 TTDP, both run exclusively on 15% Cool Power W/no added castor, had no evidence of rusted bearings. I do not make a habit of using after run oil, but I do assure that all the fuel is run out of the fuel lines, carb etc. I also store my engines indoors where they are in a climate controled enviornment. If I was storing them in a shed or unheated garage, I would probably juice them up @ the end of the season W/transmission fluid. I did inject copious amounts of transmission fluid into the crankcases & down the pushrod tubes before starting the engines cited above after their long storage.

In perspective, my FA150 was put up after a crash, not run out of fuel & stored in an unheated shed for 5 years before being moved into the house. It had rusted rear bearings. The front bearing was replaced although it seemed free & smooth. There was some very minor varnish on the crank & wrist pin that needed a bit of polishing.

Also, from the same manual (page 9) it specs the recommended valve lash as .03mm to .10mm, subsequently rounded up to .002" to .004".
Old 07-06-2012, 02:49 PM
  #22533  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

All I know is back in '86' my brand spankin new Saito FA300T had seized up on it's first flight after break in, it was totally my fault as I was a newb and did not cut enough material out from the bottom of the cowl for cooling and the motor locked up in the sky.
I sent the motor back with a short note with some info about the fuel used, rpm, break in ect. I forgot to mention the cowl lol.
They fixed the motor no charge with a note stating that they upgraded the rods to titanium and another upgraded piece that I can't remeber, but it may have something to do with the castor oil question in those early production engines without titanium rods.
Old 07-06-2012, 03:34 PM
  #22534  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

IS THERE ANYONE THAT LIVES IN CHICAGO THAT CAN HELP ME WITH MY SAITO 150 ITS MY FIRST 4 CYCLE AND IT NEVER IDLES RITE SOMETIMES IT IDLE HIGH THEN TOO LOW. I CAN NEVER LAND IT RUNNING IT ALWAYS DIES? ANY HELP WOULD BE APPRECIATED..OH I FORGOT WHEN I TUNE THE NEEDLE VALVE IT WIGGLES A LIL BIT AND DIES.
Old 07-06-2012, 03:48 PM
  #22535  
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ORIGINAL: a70eliminator

All I know is back in '86' my brand spankin new Saito FA300T had seized up on it's first flight after break in, it was totally my fault as I was a newb and did not cut enough material out from the bottom of the cowl for cooling and the motor locked up in the sky.
I sent the motor back with a short note with some info about the fuel used, rpm, break in ect. I forgot to mention the cowl lol.
They fixed the motor no charge with a note stating that they upgraded the rods to titanium and another upgraded piece that I can't remeber, but it may have something to do with the castor oil question in those early production engines without titanium rods.

It may have been "hypereutechtic" rods. That means that the silica content is higher than what will alloy completely W/the aluminum. It leaves a hard silica matrix in the metal. It is so hard that carbide tooling is recommneded for machining as HSS will not stand up to the high silica content.
Old 07-06-2012, 03:53 PM
  #22536  
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ORIGINAL: MADMECHANIX2

IS THERE ANYONE THAT LIVES IN CHICAGO THAT CAN HELP ME WITH MY SAITO 150 ITS MY FIRST 4 CYCLE AND IT NEVER IDLES RITE SOMETIMES IT IDLE HIGH THEN TOO LOW. I CAN NEVER LAND IT RUNNING IT ALWAYS DIES? ANY HELP WOULD BE APPRECIATED..OH I FORGOT WHEN I TUNE THE NEEDLE VALVE IT WIGGLES A LIL BIT AND DIES.

The "needle" valve is for high speed mixture. Idle & midrange is adjusted by the low speed screw recessed in then center of the throttle barrel on the throttle lever end.

If your needle valve screw (HS needle) wiggles & kills the engine it sounds like you either have a missing "O" ring or the spray bar is loose.

If it is new, send it back to Horizon for warranty repair.
Old 07-06-2012, 04:05 PM
  #22537  
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OK I DIDNT KNOW THERE WAS AN O RING IN THERE I WONDER HOW IT WOULD HAVE COME OUT? BUT ANYWAYS ILL SEND IT IN. DO YOU KNOW IF THEY RUN THEM OR NOT?BUT I WILL SEND IT IN THANX FOR THE INFO IM NEW TO 4 CYCLES AND IM STARTING TO REGRET IT BUT I JUS LOVE HOW THEY SOUND.IT SOUNDS GOOD IN MY CUB.
Old 07-06-2012, 04:22 PM
  #22538  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Where is the O- ring on the HSN? Is it in the tube the HSN screws into or is it in the cap of the needle valve? This is on a 150s. Tom
Old 07-06-2012, 04:30 PM
  #22539  
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ORIGINAL: Tom Jones

Where is the O- ring on the HSN? Is it in the tube the HSN screws into or is it in the cap of the needle valve? This is on a 150s. Tom

It's in the spray bar. (the tube the HSN screws into)

Someone posted some PIX of the HS needle "O" ring & it's location. I think in this thread. I'll look.
Old 07-06-2012, 05:00 PM
  #22540  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Here is the gasket set for the FA150 carb.



I think the smallest "O" ring goes inside the spray bar tube. I think the small fat one might go under the needle sleeve that threads onto the spraybar. Not sure about that one. The large thin "O" ring goes between the carb & the manifold flange.

There is definately a seal inside the spray bar on the HSN end. If you completely remove the HSN & then re-insert it you will feel the drag of the "O" ring as soon as the parallel section (just behind the taper) enters the spray bar.
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Old 07-06-2012, 05:08 PM
  #22541  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

You are correct, The fat little one goes on the LSN side. I'll look again on the High speed side. Thanks, Tom
Old 07-06-2012, 05:16 PM
  #22542  
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ORIGINAL: Tom Jones

You are correct, The fat little one goes on the LSN side. I'll look again on the High speed side. Thanks, Tom


Here it is. It was back on page 876.




Picture credit goes to Hobbsy!
Awesome photography skills!
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Old 07-06-2012, 05:34 PM
  #22543  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

ORIGINAL: MADMECHANIX2

OK I DIDNT KNOW THERE WAS AN O RING IN THERE I WONDER HOW IT WOULD HAVE COME OUT? BUT ANYWAYS ILL SEND IT IN. DO YOU KNOW IF THEY RUN THEM OR NOT?BUT I WILL SEND IT IN THANX FOR THE INFO IM NEW TO 4 CYCLES AND IM STARTING TO REGRET IT BUT I JUS LOVE HOW THEY SOUND.IT SOUNDS GOOD IN MY CUB.
If the "O" ring is absent, it was not installed in the 1st place. No way can it come out W/O dismantling the spray bar. My guess is that it got dislodged during assembly.


Once you get used to setting up a 4-stroke you will never want to fly a buzz bee glow 2-stroke or ring-a-ding-ding chainsaw engine. A properly set-up FA150 will handle a 16# airframe W/ease.
Old 07-06-2012, 06:18 PM
  #22544  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

SR, that spray bar tube looks nothing like mine. Mine is flat across the top with no nipple on it. There is no place for the O_ring to seat. I can't imagine that it would slide over the needle and then just squeeze into the tube. Would the trick of putting a piece of fuel line over the threads of the tube help? Just wondering. Tom
Old 07-06-2012, 06:38 PM
  #22545  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Tom, if you indeed have a 1.50s the spraybar and HS needle at just the 2.20 I posted, the O-ring is in the same place and is easy to replace. Just roll it in the hole and straighten it out with a Tee Pin. Lube the HS needle with fuel preferably with some castor in it so the needle shaft will slide right in.
Old 07-06-2012, 06:55 PM
  #22546  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Hobbsy,I do have the 150s, at least that is what the sticker on the side says, but I don't know what you mean "posted 2.20". thanks Tom
Old 07-06-2012, 07:09 PM
  #22547  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Here is my early Saito 1.50s, you see the O-ring is in the same p[lace as the Saito 2.20 carb I post a few days ago, SR posted it again above.

PS. if there is no nipple on it, how do you connect the fuel ine to the carb, Thanks
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Old 07-06-2012, 08:15 PM
  #22548  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

ORIGINAL: Hobbsy

Here is my early Saito 1.50s, you see the O-ring is in the same p[lace as the Saito 2.20 carb I post a few days ago, SR posted it again above.

PS. if there is no nipple on it, how do you connect the fuel ine to the carb, Thanks

That doesn't look a whole lot different than the 2.20. That's why I thought it was a picture of a 150 spraybar I posted. Thanks for the clarification.

As for the OP on the "O" ring topic. If his HS needle wobbles & shuts the engine down when he touches it, sure sounds like the "O" ring might be the culprit.

What do you think?
Old 07-06-2012, 08:31 PM
  #22549  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Food for thought,
If there is a air leak in the fuel supply line, and one does not know it they may well try to get the engine to run by backing out the HS needle to richen the mixture. One could back it out so far that the needle will wobble and kill the engine when it is touched.

Just saying.
Old 07-07-2012, 04:05 AM
  #22550  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Well, when folks post a question with no pictures we are reduced to arm chair mechanics with lots of knowledege and experience but we don't get good empirical data with which to make a diagnosis, the statement, saying it has no nipple makes no sence since they all have one. If that statement is true then someone ground the end down flat and removed the O-ring groove in the proces.. We need a picture. That would explain the wobbling too.

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