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Welcome to Club SAITO !

Old 07-13-2012, 04:49 AM
  #22601  
SrTelemaster150
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !


ORIGINAL: Hobbsy

Bob, I tried to EDIT that post for you but when it goes into the EDIT format it becomes a jumbled up mess that I can't figure out.

For some reason, this site's software doesn't seem to like Word.

I have tried to do the same thing in the past W/similar results. I forgot about the jumbled mees the Word paste results in.

It's do not think it's an isolated incident. It seems to be the rule rather than the exception. If I remember correctly, it doesn't happen unless one hits enter to double space lines/paragraphs.
Old 07-13-2012, 05:20 AM
  #22602  
blw
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It shows the formating settings like font color, spacing, size, etc. Looks like typical Word junk to me. I don't think it is RCU related. I avoid Word and Word files at all cost when possible.
Old 07-13-2012, 06:32 AM
  #22603  
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Lesson learned on using WORD! Maybe this info will help others in the future.

Back to the low compression: After thinking about it overnight, I decided to remove the muffler. The exhaust chamber is gross. Lots of carbon. I can see the valve moving up and down. Here's the kicker: When I place my finger over the exhaust port, there still is not compression and I don't feel any pressure! When I do the same to the intake port, there's all kinds of compression bumps turning the prop.
Is the timing off? I hate to have to take the cam cover off, looks tricky to set the cam timing.

To answer other questions: The main bearing looks good. No rust. Bearings feel smooth when the prop us turned. Crankcase looks clean.(no rust color in the oil puddles.) Outside, the engine looks spotless. Maybe it has been cleaned to sell.

If I tear down this engine, I'll have to find an appropriate puller for the front drive flange. I'll get back here in a few days to let you guys know what happened.
Bob
Old 07-13-2012, 09:01 AM
  #22604  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

I use word all the time. However I find that when posting from word to any forum site I have to copy what I have done in word to a windows plan text notepad to get rid of the word formating that would other wise belated with my file.
Old 07-13-2012, 09:46 AM
  #22605  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

You won't need to remove the prop drive to check the timing, Pull the glow plug place the piston at TDC on the exhaust stroke and both valves should be open slightly, the intake valve should start to open about 20 degrees btc on the exhaust stroke and the exhaust valve should finish closing about 20 after tdc.

Both valves open from picture #1 to picture #2
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Old 07-13-2012, 10:21 AM
  #22606  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Hobbsy:
Yes, it looks the same as your pictures. I also compared it to daigrams I found on the internet showing the working of a 4 cycle. This is apuzzle but I may find it soon because I noticed (was right before my eyes) that thr rear bearing is shielded not open. So, I'm going to tear it down and replace bearings after cleaning. Maybe I'll see something obvious. Bob

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Old 07-13-2012, 11:32 AM
  #22607  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

ORIGINAL: treehanger

Hobbsy:
Yes, it looks the same as your pictures. I also compared it to daigrams I found on the internet showing the working of a 4 cycle. This is apuzzle but I may find it soon because I noticed (was right before my eyes) that thr rear bearing is shielded not open. So, I'm going to tear it down and replace bearings after cleaning. Maybe I'll see something obvious. Bob


You should definately NOT feel compression @ the intake port & the rear bearing should NOT be shielded.

Stick your pinky finger over the glow plug hole & turn the crank. If you feel any suction you are definately out of time.
Old 07-13-2012, 12:34 PM
  #22608  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

You will feel compression at the intake port if the valve is not fully closed. That would explain a lot of the problem.

Normally the exhaust would be the one to stick as it is exposed to all the combustion byproducts, but if any foreign object found it's way through the carb or the valve was bent by impact with the piston then you will definitely need to at least pull the valves.

As Hobbsy described, on exhaust both valves should be slightly open. If you have access to compressed air blow into the intake to see if you are able to dislodge some relatively loose bits. It would still be an idea to pull the cylinder and soak it in warm glycol for a while to loosen any crud.
Old 07-13-2012, 12:54 PM
  #22609  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Thanks for all the help and suggestions here. I think I have used up my year's alottment of bandwidth and resources here! Ha.
So, it's rebuild and bearing replacement time. Ordering SS bearings tonight. I may find really worn parts in the front end due to the shielded main bearing.

Goes to show that you never know what you will get buyingused without the ability to inspect. Learned my lesson.I'll sign off here now until it's done and come back and update you guys on what I find.
Thanks to all.
Bob
Old 07-13-2012, 03:21 PM
  #22610  
blw
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Bob, didn't mean to sound critical of your post. Have fun changing bearings.
Old 07-13-2012, 03:40 PM
  #22611  
treehanger
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Oh no, I didn't take it that way at all.
Bob
Old 07-13-2012, 07:39 PM
  #22612  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Saito motors are little gems! Have at least a dozen of them. Wonder if anyone out there has any experience with the FG series that burns gasoline??Been mixing my own glow fuel for many years. I still can make up glow fuel w/ 12% nitro for less than $8 a gallon. Am in the process of converting an old 270 twin to gas. I buy 100 octane aviation gas at my local airfield. At $5.20 a gallon, it has no ethanol and has stabilizers and tetra-ethel lead. Works great in my ignition gas motors. Figure it will be ok for a converted Saito. Making up a manifold adapter to mount a Walbro WA 11mm bore carb. Plan on a Saitoradial one of these days. My Harleys and Saitos both sound great! How do I join Club Saito?
Old 07-14-2012, 02:48 AM
  #22613  
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ORIGINAL: smkrcflyer

I have an issue with the 120 I‘m working on. I put new bearings in and reassembled the engine. I adjusted the rockers for 0.002 clearances. The crankshaft is difficult to turn but if I back off on the cam cover bolts it becomes easer but still not what it should be. I did put the cam gasket in. It seems like the cam gear and crankshaft gears are jamming together. Has anyone had this type of problem?
I still can't figure out what the problem is with my 120. Ive taken it apart 3 times now and I still have the same problem. The cam gear is binding on the crankshaft. If I back off on the bolts its ok but as I tighten down on the bolts the gears start to bind. The amount of binding is not the same as you rotate the crank there is more and less as you rotate it. I put the old bearing back in and I still have the same problem. I ran it and it runs good other then it sounds like the wining of a super charger in a car. I'm thinking about making a gasket out of thicker material. Does anyone have any ideas?
Old 07-14-2012, 04:06 AM
  #22614  
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Hey Rock, picture #1 is my largest V twin and picture #2 is my largest single, both are hemi's.

PS, I'm a Beaver County Pa. born and raised farm boy. Still a boy at 70.
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Old 07-14-2012, 09:50 PM
  #22615  
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Hobbsy,
Ihave a flat twin. Does that count?

RJ

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Old 07-15-2012, 01:27 AM
  #22616  
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Here's my largest twin. 100 cubic inches and 100+ hp. Sounds as sweet as any Saito twin
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Old 07-15-2012, 04:00 AM
  #22617  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

ORIGINAL: rockin daddy

Saito motors are little gems! Have at least a dozen of them. Wonder if anyone out there has any experience with the FG series that burns gasoline?? Been mixing my own glow fuel for many years. I still can make up glow fuel w/ 12% nitro for less than $8 a gallon. Am in the process of converting an old 270 twin to gas. I buy 100 octane aviation gas at my local airfield. At $5.20 a gallon, it has no ethanol and has stabilizers and tetra-ethel lead. Works great in my ignition gas motors. Figure it will be ok for a converted Saito. Making up a manifold adapter to mount a Walbro WA 11mm bore carb. Plan on a Saito radial one of these days. My Harleys and Saitos both sound great! How do I join Club Saito?

Typically you will loose about 15% HP when burning gasoline.

If you are making your own glow fuel so cheaply, why not try spark ignition W/glow fuel. You will increase fuel economy by about 25% or more & make about 5% more HP than glow ignition W/the same fuel.

The increased HP output of spark ignition W/glow fuel will be about 20% over gasoline. The reduced throttle input needed to maintain flight performance will be less than W/gasoline. That will norrow the cost gap & you will not be sacrificing performance.

The alcohol based fuel will also contrigute far less to carbon builup then gasoline.
Old 07-15-2012, 04:05 AM
  #22618  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

ORIGINAL: smkrcflyer


ORIGINAL: smkrcflyer

I have an issue with the 120 I‘m working on. I put new bearings in and reassembled the engine. I adjusted the rockers for 0.002 clearances. The crankshaft is difficult to turn but if I back off on the cam cover bolts it becomes easer but still not what it should be. I did put the cam gasket in. It seems like the cam gear and crankshaft gears are jamming together. Has anyone had this type of problem?
I still can't figure out what the problem is with my 120. Ive taken it apart 3 times now and I still have the same problem. The cam gear is binding on the crankshaft. If I back off on the bolts its ok but as I tighten down on the bolts the gears start to bind. The amount of binding is not the same as you rotate the crank there is more and less as you rotate it. I put the old bearing back in and I still have the same problem. I ran it and it runs good other then it sounds like the wining of a super charger in a car. I'm thinking about making a gasket out of thicker material. Does anyone have any ideas?

Is the tight spot every 720* or every 1360* of crank rotation?

If it's every 720* it points to am fault on the cam gear.

If it's every 360* it points to a fault on the crank pinion.

Here is a recent thread about the 180* symptom on a 300T. 180* on the twin would be like 360* on a single as there are 2 cam gears on the twin 180* apart.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_11146603/tm.htm
Old 07-15-2012, 04:16 AM
  #22619  
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If I ever again achieve financial solvency I want another sweet running Saito 1.30 like this one that I had to sell and find a sweet running BMW R-50, before oil heads and ABS junk corrupted them.
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Old 07-15-2012, 05:55 AM
  #22620  
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ORIGINAL: Hobbsy

If I ever again achieve financial solvency I want another sweet running Saito 1.30 like this one that I had to sell and find a sweet running BMW R-50, before oil heads and ABS junk corrupted them.

Hi Dave. I rode a BMW 250cc single with the Earles fork like that in college, a long time ago in a far away distant land (New Jersey). It was a very sweet ride, when 650 cc was a big bike. As you know, I have a FA-130T like that. If I ever let it go, it will come your way.

Very best regards,
Dick.
Old 07-15-2012, 06:27 AM
  #22621  
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ORIGINAL: Hobbsy

Hey Rock, picture #1 is my largest V twin and picture #2 is my largest single, both are hemi's.

PS, I'm a Beaver County Pa. born and raised farm boy. Still a boy at 70.

Most motorcycle & full scale aircraft engines are hemis.

Here is my largest Hemi. 345 cu in 535 HP N/A @ the crank (425 RWHP)

12.06 @ 114 MPH @ 4300# race weight. 26 MPG hi-way

Old 07-15-2012, 07:19 AM
  #22622  
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That one was called the R-27, I saw a brand new one in Weirton, W.Va. in the 60s. This DOHC 1.20 was my favorite hemi next to my Conley 1.20. I believe w8ye posted that the new 1.25 cylinder is more hemified than the original and has larger cooling fins.
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Old 07-15-2012, 11:28 AM
  #22623  
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You need to get that hood ornament off your car. She's smudging the wax job.



Old 07-15-2012, 11:39 AM
  #22624  
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Financial solvency? In this hobby? Not likely ....for me anyway.

RJ
Old 07-15-2012, 02:47 PM
  #22625  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Hello everyone,do I qualify from over the pond having 3 of these beauties?
I have a 45,45S and FA65.
The 45 has been flying my CG Cub on lovely summer days and evenings for a few years and I noticed earlier in the year it did not seem to have much punch.There seems very litlle/no compression,I have adjusted the tappets with piston at TDC with 0.050mm blade sliding in easily but a0.10mm blade won't go in.We have a company here,McGregor,who stock Saito spares so I looked for spring and collet set for this engine and piston rings,which they stock.I have stripped and repaired numerous engines,2&4 st the Saito is the only one i have never done (always reliable) and is different in as much as the whole cylinder barrel is removed.Are there any things I should be wary of please when removing barrel?
Thank you for any help that might be forthcoming and hope I will be accepted to the club.I'm not this much trouble usually.
John

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