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Welcome to Club SAITO !

Old 07-15-2012, 03:54 PM
  #22626  
Cougar429
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

There is nothing more complex than removing a cylinder head as the only things to watch for are the pushrods, sleeves and lifters. Make sure they are not dropped and try and mark which cam lobes the lifters ride on if removed.

As usual more care is required upon assembly to ensure everything goes back together correctly. The piston ring has no alignment pin and should easily compress when the cylinder is slid back on the piston.

Don't forget to reset the valve lash once back together.
Old 07-15-2012, 04:45 PM
  #22627  
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ORIGINAL: fly-navy

Hello everyone,do I qualify from over the pond having 3 of these beauties?
I have a 45,45S and FA65.
The 45 has been flying my CG Cub on lovely summer days and evenings for a few years and I noticed earlier in the year it did not seem to have much punch.There seems very litlle/no compression,I have adjusted the tappets with piston at TDC with 0.050mm blade sliding in easily but a0.10mm blade won't go in.We have a company here,McGregor,who stock Saito spares so I looked for spring and collet set for this engine and piston rings,which they stock.I have stripped and repaired numerous engines,2&4 st the Saito is the only one i have never done (always reliable) and is different in as much as the whole cylinder barrel is removed.Are there any things I should be wary of please when removing barrel?
Thank you for any help that might be forthcoming and hope I will be accepted to the club.I'm not this much trouble usually.
John

The metric cap screws holding the jug to the case are very tight. A good quality, correctly sized allen wrench must be cut down to fit under the fins to fit securly in the screw head. Then very carefully loosen the screws making sure the wrench does not slip. If the wrench buggers the hex socket, then you are really screwed. The allen wrench used should be of high enough quality that it must be ground down rather than cut with a saw. Be careful in grinding the wrench to not let it hot enough to loose its' temper. Dip the wrench in water often to cool it. Good luck.
Old 07-15-2012, 05:24 PM
  #22628  
SrTelemaster150
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

ORIGINAL: spaceworm




The metric cap screws holding the jug to the case are very tight. A good quality, correctly sized allen wrench must be cut down to fit under the fins to fit securly in the screw head. Then very carefully loosen the screws making sure the wrench does not slip. If the wrench buggers the hex socket, then you are really screwed. The allen wrench used should be of high enough quality that it must be ground down rather than cut with a saw. Be careful in grinding the wrench to not let it hot enough to loose its' temper. Dip the wrench in water often to cool it. Good luck.
Amen to needing high quality (cut off) allen wrenches. If you do strip out the hex socket, a small cut off wheel on a Dremel can be used very carefully to cut the head off the cylinder base screw. Been there, done that.
Old 07-15-2012, 05:31 PM
  #22629  
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ORIGINAL: Cougar429

There is nothing more complex than removing a cylinder head as the only things to watch for are the pushrods, sleeves and lifters. Make sure they are not dropped and try and mark which cam lobes the lifters ride on if removed.

As usual more care is required upon assembly to ensure everything goes back together correctly. The piston ring has no alignment pin and should easily compress when the cylinder is slid back on the piston.

Don't forget to reset the valve lash once back together.

I have found that removing the rockers 1st & the pusrods next helps simpilfy keeping the pushrods from getting mixed up as having everthing trying to fall out when removing the jug W/the valve train intact.

I also assemble the jug/pushrod cover tubes in the reverse order, installing the pusrods/rockers after the cylinder is in place & torqued on the case. It's just a lot easier than trying to juggle all the loose pieces @ once.
Old 07-15-2012, 08:19 PM
  #22630  
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Hmmmm, smudging the paint?
Old 07-15-2012, 08:26 PM
  #22631  
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Hey SrTelemaster:

Thanks for the info on converting my Saito 270 twin to gasoline. I did not take into acount the fact that I may get more ash deposits with gas over methanol.Plus the 15% reduction in hp!

When you adapt a Walbro gas pumper carb, you have to place a small spring behind the pumper diaphram to work the pump action of the Walbro carb. Will have to reasearch that !!
Old 07-15-2012, 08:59 PM
  #22632  
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Hey GaGeeBee:

I like the sound of Harleys. Have five of them. Starting with a 47' Knucklehead, 60 Pan, 74' Sportster, 95' Softail Custom, and an04'Ultra. But my Texas AmericanIron Horse "Judge" has an S&S 100 cu in twin in it that is a great ride an sounds like any Harley. The Japs tried to duplicate the "potatoe-potatoe-potatoe" sound of the Harley and ended up with a fart-in-the-bathtub sound.

The Saito radial sounds the best!!!! I bought a 325 Saito and will use Henry Hafke's
Gee Bee Y plans and scale em up or try it on a Wedell-Williams racer I built many years ago. The Zenoah gas motor worked great but the Saito radial has the sound!!! One of these days I'll have a Moki radial!
Old 07-16-2012, 02:59 AM
  #22633  
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ORIGINAL: rockin daddy

Hey SrTelemaster:

Thanks for the info on converting my Saito 270 twin to gasoline. I did not take into acount the fact that I may get more ash deposits with gas over methanol. Plus the 15% reduction in hp!

When you adapt a Walbro gas pumper carb, you have to place a small spring behind the pumper diaphram to work the pump action of the Walbro carb. Will have to reasearch that !!

A lot of guys that are considering gas conversions seem to forget that top fuel drag racers use an alcolol/nitormethane mix fuel to produce a lot more HP than gasoline. Keep the glow fuel W/electronic ignition & get the best of both worlds.

Even E85 should make considerably more HP than gasoline as it allows compression ratios to remain high. My own experiments W/E85 in an FA150 W/C&H ignition showed only a 200 RPM loss in RPM over glow ignition/glow fuel. The E-85 allowed a very aggressive spark timing advance. E85 would not function well through the gklow fuel carburetor though.
Old 07-16-2012, 03:35 AM
  #22634  
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ORIGINAL: SrTelemaster150

ORIGINAL: smkrcflyer


ORIGINAL: smkrcflyer

I have an issue with the 120 I‘m working on. I put new bearings in and reassembled the engine. I adjusted the rockers for 0.002 clearances. The crankshaft is difficult to turn but if I back off on the cam cover bolts it becomes easer but still not what it should be. I did put the cam gasket in. It seems like the cam gear and crankshaft gears are jamming together. Has anyone had this type of problem?
I still can't figure out what the problem is with my 120. Ive taken it apart 3 times now and I still have the same problem. The cam gear is binding on the crankshaft. If I back off on the bolts its ok but as I tighten down on the bolts the gears start to bind. The amount of binding is not the same as you rotate the crank there is more and less as you rotate it. I put the old bearing back in and I still have the same problem. I ran it and it runs good other then it sounds like the wining of a super charger in a car. I'm thinking about making a gasket out of thicker material. Does anyone have any ideas?

Is the tight spot every 720* or every 1360* of crank rotation?

If it's every 720* it points to am fault on the cam gear.

If it's every 360* it points to a fault on the crank pinion.

Here is a recent thread about the 180* symptom on a 300T. 180* on the twin would be like 360* on a single as there are 2 cam gears on the twin 180* apart.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_11146603/tm.htm
Thanks SrTelemaster150,
This is the problem I’m having and it’s at the 360 deg so it sounds like it’s the crank pinion. I added two layers of aluminum foil and the gasket between the cam body and the engine body and that got rid of about 75% of the problem. So I’m going to try making a shim. The engine is a bit old and probable not worth putting new parts in it. If this doesn’t work I’ll replace it with Saito 150.
Old 07-16-2012, 03:45 AM
  #22635  
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Steve, this 1991 high compression 1.50 has been making that geary sounding and feeling noise since new, the noise is all but gone now. I never worried about it.
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Old 07-16-2012, 04:05 AM
  #22636  
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OK that’s good to know. I was thinking the noise was an indication that the gears were not messing correctly and this would put load on the crank. Without putting a spacer between them it makes it difficult to turn the crank so I would not run it without a spacer.
On a side note. I’m heading out Friday to Oshkosh for the week long AirVenture event can’t wait. My son and I went in 2009 and we had a great time so were going back this year.
Old 07-16-2012, 04:45 AM
  #22637  
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ORIGINAL: smkrcflyer

OK that’s good to know. I was thinking the noise was an indication that the gears were not messing correctly and this would put load on the crank. Without putting a spacer between them it makes it difficult to turn the crank so I would not run it without a spacer.
On a side note. I’m heading out Friday to Oshkosh for the week long AirVenture event can’t wait. My son and I went in 2009 and we had a great time so were going back this year.
The noise, but nore importantly the tight spot ever 360* IS an indication that your gears are not meshing properly. If you had an even drag/tightness all through the rotation it would just be an indication of too little/tight gear lash.

As long as the shims required are not excessive you might be OK. Just don't shim it too much. Remember that to alieve the tight spot you will be running excess lash on the rest of the cam gear. If you shim it the minimal amount that will allow running the engine reliably, eventually the gears should wear in. If it were me, & I did not feel the need to pull the crank & dress the pinion gear @ the tight spots W/a rifler file, (which I would probably do) I would just add extra gaskets that could be removed 1 at a time as the gear lash seats itself.

As Hobbsy pointed out eventually it will get better. (if it doesn't fail in infancy)

Is your crank straight? Have you put a dial indicator on it?
Old 07-16-2012, 05:14 AM
  #22638  
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I have not checked the crack. The engine was in a plane and running but was leaking fuel out the front bearing and was not making any noise. So I decided to replace the bearings. After replacing the bearings it makes the noise but does not leak anymore. I’m going to try the shims to see if that works. It was not bad with the two sheets of aluminum foil so I don’t think I’ll need much.
Old 07-16-2012, 07:14 AM
  #22639  
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SrTelle:

Never thought of using E-85 for the ignition conversion on the Saito 270. Do you have to add Nitromethane? Was figuring on running a 30:1 chainsaw oil. Will it mix with the E-85 ? Will still adapt the Walbro carb to the glow fuel manifold.

Thanks much for your input.

Best regards,

RockinDaddy
Old 07-16-2012, 07:32 AM
  #22640  
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ORIGINAL: rockin daddy

SrTelle:

Never thought of using E-85 for the ignition conversion on the Saito 270. Do you have to add Nitromethane? Was figuring on running a 30:1 chainsaw oil. Will it mix with the E-85 ? Will still adapt the Walbro carb to the glow fuel manifold.

Thanks much for your input.

Best regards,

RockinDaddy

If you can readily obtain E85 in your area it's worth having a look. Be forwarned that you need to purchase your E85 during summer as in the winter, they drop the ethanol content for better ignition in cold weather. It will keep from season to season if kept in a (full) sealed container. I use old glow fuel gallon jugs.

Guys are running E85 in the 3rd Gen 5.7 & 6.1 Chrysler Hemis & running 14.5:1 CR while 93 octane unleaded limits them to about 11:1 CR. More HP but needs about 33% more fuel volume over gasoline.

Saito typicaly lowers CR for the FG engines & sometimes ups the displacement to make up for the HP loss. EG: The FG 57 has 180 jugs but the stroke is reduced .6mm to lower CR.

I've heard some say that the Walbro won't hold up to E85, but I've heard otherwise too.

I ran my fuel mix @ 15:1 E85/Klotz.

You can't run 30:1 as the Saitos do not have roller bearings on the rods. The FG57 recommends 20:1. (5%) I went up a bit on oil content (almost 7%) to make up for less lubricity of alcohol compared to gasoline.

I quart of Klotz to 3.75 gallons of E85. (15 qts)
Old 07-16-2012, 07:46 AM
  #22641  
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Looks like there is E85 available down on US 119 just SE of you.

http://e85vehicles.com/e85-stations/...nsylvania.html
Old 07-16-2012, 09:41 AM
  #22642  
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ORIGINAL: the pope


ORIGINAL: rowdyjoe

You need to get that hood ornament off your car. She's smudging the wax job. [img][/img]

RJ


ORIGINAL: SrTelemaster150


ORIGINAL: Hobbsy

Hey Rock, picture #1 is my largest V twin and picture #2 is my largest single, both are hemi's.

PS, I'm a Beaver County Pa. born and raised farm boy. Still a boy at 70.

Most motorcycle & full scale aircraft engines are hemis.

Here is my largest Hemi. 345 cu in 535 HP N/A @ the crank (425 RWHP)

12.06 @ 114 MPH @ 4300# race weight. 26 MPG hi-way



Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm smudge !
hi pope, getting a little "carnal", are we?
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Old 07-16-2012, 11:42 AM
  #22643  
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ORIGINAL: hsukaria


hi pope, getting a little ''carnal'', are we?
Here are some more for your "carnal" interest.
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Old 07-16-2012, 11:45 AM
  #22644  
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OMG, she is celestial
Old 07-16-2012, 11:46 AM
  #22645  
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ORIGINAL: lopflyers

OMG, she is celestial

Yes she is a beautiful car .

And the "babe" ain't bad either.
Old 07-16-2012, 11:52 AM
  #22646  
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Recycled
Old 07-16-2012, 12:00 PM
  #22647  
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Thank you for your input guys,appreciated.will contact McGregor first before I do anything to make sure they have stock of what I want,and then order it,been bit too many times in the past of "Oh yes sir we have planty of those".
Thank you for the warning about allen keys,was a/c mech in Fleet Air Arm for 12 yrs and we were not allowed to use cheap tools
if you can shorten allen key with hacksaw it ain't no good
appreciate the warning though.
John
Old 07-16-2012, 01:40 PM
  #22648  
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Good quality cutting wheels will do the job.  I find that the ones I use for cutting tungsten and tittainium (I think that is correct spelling) are ok.  I got all mine for free (enough that should have lasted a life time but haven't ).  Expensive but good alternative.
If grinding I use high speed fine quality cutting tool grinding wheels.  maybe over the top but end result is beyond reproach. 
Old 07-16-2012, 02:14 PM
  #22649  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Gents, I've been reminded that we need to get back to talking Saito, so lets do that. This is how you set em up for inverted mounting. This is my old high compression .80 that will run on Davis Diesel fuel unaided.
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Old 07-16-2012, 03:10 PM
  #22650  
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Hey Hob:

You can run your stockSaito 80 on Kerosene, castor/Klotz, and ether? I have a couple of Russian .15 Diesels and a PAW .35 that run on Kerosene, castor/Klotz, and ethyl ether mix but never heard of a Saito running on it.

Shed a little light on it if you would. There is no compression counter piston on a Saito 4cycleto increase the compression for initial starting.

Regards,

RockinDaddy

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