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Welcome to Club SAITO !

Old 07-18-2012, 07:00 PM
  #22676  
blw
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I've let the Club Saito membership slide. Who wants to sign up? I'll get the new numbers posted when I hear from anyone.
Old 07-18-2012, 08:18 PM
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Sharp eye22, I had meant to include a throttle travel check, I have had problems with throttles and flex lines (wire) operating  the the throttle arm, on the YS I had heaps of trouble in a Feathermerchant until I found it was springing open once pulled shut and let go.  With the throttle thing, I have in the past used servo arms and that u beaut Dubro stand off throttle device, works a treat
Good that you found the fix, another one I have found (not applicable to Saitos though) is that Irvine carbies work a treat on Webra Blackheads  where the carby won't shut off, direct substitution, but that is another story.
Old 07-18-2012, 08:23 PM
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ORIGINAL: blw

I've let the Club Saito membership slide. Who wants to sign up? I'll get the new numbers posted when I hear from anyone.
Please sign me up for membership.

RJ

Old 07-18-2012, 08:27 PM
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Ref. the overheating issue for my FA-80 &DVII:
The extra baffeling has helped as there is a noticeable reduction in heat. It's not getting so hot that I loose RPM but, Imay add more baffeling to ensure even better cooling. It's still getting hotter than I'd like.

Thanks for the tips. I shall return soon with the resutls of the heli fuel experiement.

RJ
Old 07-18-2012, 08:48 PM
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Airflow  in and out is the key don't baffle any more than you have to
Old 07-18-2012, 10:07 PM
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Just some food for thought. It has been my experience that if the bearings are badly corroded that, that alone could cause the engine to overheat. I have picked up several saitos off eBay and they have all had bad bearings. Even ones that seemed fine when I rotated them by hand and listened and felt for other than nice smooth action, that passed that test. When ran and checked with a temperture gage I found the case getting hot very quickly and much hotter than expected. After changing the corroded bearing the case no longer got hot and the engine ran much cooler.

Like I said just food for thought to explore the cause of an overheating engine.<br type="_moz" />
Old 07-19-2012, 02:48 AM
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ORIGINAL: Sharpeye22

Just some food for thought. It has been my experience that if the bearings are badly corroded that, that alone could cause the engine to overheat. I have picked up several saitos off eBay and they have all had bad bearings. Even ones that seemed fine when I rotated them by hand and listened and felt for other than nice smooth action, that passed that test. When ran and checked with a temperture gage I found the case getting hot very quickly and much hotter than expected. After changing the corroded bearing the case no longer got hot and the engine ran much cooler.

Like I said just food for thought to explore the cause of an overheating engine.<br type=''_moz'' />

What kind of case temperatures were you getting W/the rusted bearings?
Old 07-19-2012, 03:45 AM
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This is RJ's Saito .80, it came to me unrun and with no velocity stack, I inspected the rear bearing when I installed the V stack, it is as clean and prestine inside as the day it was made. It was stored in its original box with Corrosion X inside. I broke it in using my 10 minutes at each 1,000 rpm starting at 4,000 for 10 minutes. It was run only on WildCat Premium Extra. It has unbelievable compression pressure when flipped and does not leak off if flipped slowly. After break in I injected it with NAPA Fogging oil which I hoped would not get all over him when he picked it up the first time.
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Old 07-19-2012, 04:19 PM
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Sharpeye 22 I concur completely.  My mate (a new entrant to the hobby and an O/timer) acquired an OS 20 FS through me that operated beautifully.  Was put away and started 3 months later, wouldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding, felt ok worked sort off ok on test bench but wouldn't get model off the ground.  In desperation I took the back cover off and heaps of fuel soaked rust fell out BUT it still turned over ok and I guess what we "assumed" was "compression" was really the rust inhibiting the engines ops.  After cutting the con rod to dissassemble the beast and carrying out a bearing replacement program etc it now works as well as it should and terrorising the owner in the process.  (Fitted to a 25" w/s wonder thing.   
Old 07-19-2012, 09:29 PM
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Hobbsy,
I received the engine in the condition you described (no oil mess present) and there is no indication that it is anything other than pristine. It has outstanding compression and pulls very strong and I'm sure the cooling issue is due to the tight cowl fit and my inexperience. Ido not fault the engine. It's working as it should and I'm very proud to be the owner.
My more knowledgealbe flying friends all agree that it's an airflow issue and I came to the conclusion today that my 14x6 prop may be too big to be running on this engine in ambient temps over 100 deg. F. I am replacing that prop with a 13x8 and am looking forward to better cooling as the engine will build more RPMand not have to work as hard.
Ialso bought a gallon of 30% nitro 23% lube heli fuel today (man, that stuff is pricey) and I believe it helped. It ran great on the first flight but, thereafter the engine would die about mid-way through the flight (6 or 7 min.). Although the engine was very warm when Ilanded (no damage to the plane upon 3 deadsticks) I don't think it was hot enough to make it quit. So, I will remove the fuel tank and make sure the clunk isn't sticking/hanging-up.
Ineed to find a way to funnel more air directly at the cylinder and will be looking for ideas. I'll take some pictures of the situation when Iget the cowl off so everyone will be able to see what I'm seeing.

Oh, one more note: After the engine died while in flight and upon refueling and restarting the engine, it took a few seconds for the fuel to pump back up to the carb as if ii had run out of gas. Normally, it will take just a bump from the starter to start running. That's why Ithink Imay have a sticking clunk or ?????.

Sincerely,
RJ
Old 07-19-2012, 09:44 PM
  #22686  
 
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Does it have more compression when you turn it over in one direction compared to the other? Often that's just because of the ring gap placement and side forces on the piston which is no big deal. All that carbon could be a red flag though that it's been through quite a bit.

Thanks,

Ernie
Old 07-19-2012, 10:00 PM
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If Ihad bought the engine on ebay or other anonymous source, Iwould certainly look into that area but, since it came from Hobbsy I think Ican rule out that possibility.
Ijust need to learn how to provide this engine with more cooling.
I feel the engine is a bit better protected from my inexperience by using fuel with more lube. I just hope Ican figure it out before Ido permanent damage to the engine.

RJ
Old 07-20-2012, 01:54 AM
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Hello gurus

The rear bearing of my FA-125a failed totally letting particles inside: So now I'm in need of parts (camgear, maybe cylinder, piston etc.)

Horizon Hobby charges 80 bucks or more as shipment & handling costs even on a small item, such as a carb gasket set..!!!
Advantage hobby bit less for the same, 30 bucks??

This is ridiculous compared to shipment costs of hobby king, for instance. I don't get it..

I mean, for a large item this may be ok but for a set of gaskets or piston etc. small item???



So Is there any suggestions as a reliable dealer that carries out good stock on Saito parts at fair price and ships to Europe at fair price, too?


I appreciate any help!

Thanks, Artto
Finland, EU
Old 07-20-2012, 09:02 AM
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ORIGINAL: AeroFinn

Hello gurus

The rear bearing of my FA-125a failed totally letting particles inside: So now I'm in need of parts (camgear, maybe cylinder, piston etc.)

Horizon Hobby charges 80 bucks or more as shipment & handling costs even on a small item, such as a carb gasket set..!!!
Advantage hobby bit less for the same, 30 bucks??

This is ridiculous compared to shipment costs of hobby king, for instance. I don't get it..

I mean, for a large item this may be ok but for a set of gaskets or piston etc. small item???



So Is there any suggestions as a reliable dealer that carries out good stock on Saito parts at fair price and ships to Europe at fair price, too?


I appreciate any help!

Thanks, Artto
Finland, EU

Both Horizon & Advantage offer free shipping when the order amount exceeds a certain amount. I think it's $100. In fact, the horizon site will give you amount needed to get free shipping when you add parts to your "cart". If you do indeed need bearings, a cylinder, ring & piston, your order will exceed $100.

You can also have your LHS order the parts. They will usually place orders when the amount exceeds the free shipping threshold. A busy LHS will usually place orders W/Horizon 1 X or 2X a week.
Old 07-20-2012, 09:25 AM
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ORIGINAL: Hobbsy

Stainless would not last nearly as long as the HardChrome bearings plus Boca is a sponsor of this site. And I honor that.
There is no basis for this comment. Hard Chrome is a plating process that is not used on bearings. It is used to hard face wear areas such as cam lobes, etc. Stainless steel used in bearings is hardened to the same range as the chrome steel used in bearings. I sell many times more stainless sets than chrome steel because of the rust issue. No one has yet complained about shorter service life.
Old 07-20-2012, 09:28 AM
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ORIGINAL: AeroFinn

Hello gurus

The rear bearing of my FA-125a failed totally letting particles inside: So now I'm in need of parts (camgear, maybe cylinder, piston etc.)

Horizon Hobby charges 80 bucks or more as shipment & handling costs even on a small item, such as a carb gasket set..!!!
Advantage hobby bit less for the same, 30 bucks??

This is ridiculous compared to shipment costs of hobby king, for instance. I don't get it..

I mean, for a large item this may be ok but for a set of gaskets or piston etc. small item???



So Is there any suggestions as a reliable dealer that carries out good stock on Saito parts at fair price and ships to Europe at fair price, too?


I appreciate any help!

Thanks, Artto
Finland, EU
There are hobby stores all over Europe that can ship items very inexpensive. I can also ship bearings to you for about $5. I don't know why some US companies choose to rip people off like that. Even EMS to Finland would only be $38 for the flat rate inveolpe and you van get a lot of small parts in there! Main problem is that only EMS or Registered is tracked internationally.
Old 07-20-2012, 09:33 AM
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ORIGINAL: rowdyjoe

Hobbsy,
I received the engine in the condition you described (no oil mess present) and there is no indication that it is anything other than pristine. It has outstanding compression and pulls very strong and I'm sure the cooling issue is due to the tight cowl fit and my inexperience. I do not fault the engine. It's working as it should and I'm very proud to be the owner.
My more knowledgealbe flying friends all agree that it's an airflow issue and I came to the conclusion today that my 14x6 prop may be too big to be running on this engine in ambient temps over 100 deg. F. I am replacing that prop with a 13x8 and am looking forward to better cooling as the engine will build more RPM and not have to work as hard.
I also bought a gallon of 30% nitro 23% lube heli fuel today (man, that stuff is pricey) and I believe it helped. It ran great on the first flight but, thereafter the engine would die about mid-way through the flight (6 or 7 min.). Although the engine was very warm when I landed (no damage to the plane upon 3 deadsticks) I don't think it was hot enough to make it quit. So, I will remove the fuel tank and make sure the clunk isn't sticking/hanging-up.
I need to find a way to funnel more air directly at the cylinder and will be looking for ideas. I'll take some pictures of the situation when I get the cowl off so everyone will be able to see what I'm seeing.

Oh, one more note: After the engine died while in flight and upon refueling and restarting the engine, it took a few seconds for the fuel to pump back up to the carb as if ii had run out of gas. Normally, it will take just a bump from the starter to start running. That's why I think I may have a sticking clunk or ?????.

Sincerely,
RJ
Make sure that the area for the air to escape from the cowl is much larger than the intake. Otherwise, the air will stagnate in the cowl and heat up. I flew in Phoenix, AZ for year with temps well above 100 and didn't have any overheating problems except for dumb mistakes!
Old 07-20-2012, 10:12 AM
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ORIGINAL: RC-Bearings


ORIGINAL: AeroFinn

Hello gurus

The rear bearing of my FA-125a failed totally letting particles inside: So now I'm in need of parts (camgear, maybe cylinder, piston etc.)

Horizon Hobby charges 80 bucks or more as shipment & handling costs even on a small item, such as a carb gasket set..!!!
Advantage hobby bit less for the same, 30 bucks??

This is ridiculous compared to shipment costs of hobby king, for instance. I don't get it..

I mean, for a large item this may be ok but for a set of gaskets or piston etc. small item???



So Is there any suggestions as a reliable dealer that carries out good stock on Saito parts at fair price and ships to Europe at fair price, too?


I appreciate any help!

Thanks, Artto
Finland, EU
There are hobby stores all over Europe that can ship items very inexpensive. I can also ship bearings to you for about $5. I don't know why some US companies choose to rip people off like that. Even EMS to Finland would only be $38 for the flat rate inveolpe and you van get a lot of small parts in there! Main problem is that only EMS or Registered is tracked internationally.
Thanks RC-Bearings

I'm actually waiting for reply of some European dealers. A local hobby shop stocks Saito parts but not all of them. So this is why I need to get them somewhere else than at my LHS.

Anyways, thanks and let's see what I will be offered..
Old 07-20-2012, 11:45 AM
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OK folks. Here are a couple of pictures of my installation with the cowl on. The black areas in the frontal picture indicate those areas I've blocked off with stiff semi-flexible clear plastic. The picture of the bottom of the cowl should be self explanatory.

RJ


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Old 07-20-2012, 04:57 PM
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Garry, I've followed this with interest but don't have much cowl experience, I have box full of them I never mounted. Here is how I do it. This is my early Saito .30 I jokingly call my psuedo Golden Knight. Bill Robison borrowed it for about 6 months for his Saito Notes. He sent it back with a black cylinder so it has sentimental value. It turns that Graupner 10.5x5 at 10,400 rpm. There is something you might try, pull both needles out of the carb and spray PB-Blaster, Brakleen or similar through the carb from the LS needle side in case there is foriegn stuff in there.
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Old 07-20-2012, 05:54 PM
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ORIGINAL: rowdyjoe

OK folks. Here are a couple of pictures of my installation with the cowl on. The black areas in the frontal picture indicate those areas I've blocked off with stiff semi-flexible clear plastic. The picture of the bottom of the cowl should be self explanatory.

RJ


rowdyjoe,
I really don't buy into the idea of blocking the air inlet so that you can have a ratio of exit to inlet if you have a big wide open cowl. In your example, the outlet is big enough to pass an Elephant!!! The trick is not to have the air bypass the cylinder, but in your case a lot of the air is still bypassing the cylinder anyway, even if you blocked the inlet. You reallly need to have the whole inlet open, with baffling diverting the air towards the cylinder internal to cowl. So, instead of that blocking you put in, put a baffle on the inside of the cowl going diagonally towards the cylinder.
Old 07-20-2012, 06:29 PM
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Hi guys,

I finally got the Saito 1.80 to fire up. Man, that has a ton of power compared to my Saito .72. Anyway, I noticed that I had a fuel tank leak so I will correct that before proceding. My question is, I have the high speed needle out 3.5 turns out. It seemed to transition ok from what was a very high idle with the throttle all the way back to mid range. I tryed to advance past half just to see what happened and the engine acted starved so I backed it off and let it run in slow about 18 minutes total. I did notice some grayish discolored exhaust residue I take it is due to break in. My question is on the low setting. If I want the idle to be lower which direction do I move the screw on the underside of the throttle body? I have the motor mounted on its side not in the vertical. I know I am to make small adjustments but how small? half turn at a time?? Really appreciate you guys and your knowledge here regarding all things Saito. Thanks Paul
Old 07-20-2012, 07:09 PM
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Paul, first set HS needle at or very near the full power peak and leave it set that way, reduce throttle to the slowest idle you can get. Now, lean the LS 1/8th turn at a time chasing the idle down with the throttle barrel as the idle improves. Test the transition after every other LS change. At some point it will hesitate when you open the throttle, richen 1/4 turn and then fine tune as needed. Be willing to sacrifice some idle speed, as in a little faster in favor of the best transition. The LS needle controls the mixture for about 85% of the throttle range, so it has a huge effect on fuel economy or the lack of it.
Old 07-20-2012, 08:27 PM
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Hobbsy,
Thanks for the tip. I think I can do that without messing it up too much ...providing Idon't drop and loose the needles.

Garry
Old 07-20-2012, 08:34 PM
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hsukaria,
I think you're reading my mind. I am studying different ideas and materials for doing that. Istarted with the cowl/grill approx. 25% blocked and it wasn't enough but, when Iadded what you see in the picture, it did have a positive effect.
So, I plan to build something that will funnel the air over the cylinder better. The curent airflow pattern is just not removing enough heat.

RJ

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