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Old 04-03-2013, 05:10 AM
  #24601  
AeroFinn
 
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ok thanks Blw so this confirms the dot should be facing the camgear and not the back plate
Old 04-03-2013, 08:50 AM
  #24602  
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It's best to not go by markings though. Look for the chamfer regardless of the dots. I don't remember which engines, but some are reversed this process and could be installed backwards if not careful. Here is the only pic I had time to get that shows the chamfer. The chamfer faces forward so it snugs into the crankpin-crankcase fitting.

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Old 04-03-2013, 11:11 AM
  #24603  
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ORIGINAL: blw

It's best to not go by markings though. Look for the chamfer regardless of the dots. I don't remember which engines, but some are reversed this process and could be installed backwards if not careful. Here is the only pic I had time to get that shows the chamfer. The chamfer faces forward so it snugs into the crankpin-crankcase fitting.

Thanks blw

Yes, I actually checked the chamfer and while one could install the rod either way it definitely fits better when the chamfer faces towards the crankpin
Old 04-03-2013, 01:43 PM
  #24604  
Homer712
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If this question has been addressed before, I'll offer my "sorry bout that" right up front. Good. Now that that's out of the way . . .

I have slowly (OK, my better half thinks one flying season is not the definitionof "slowly") been changing over my planes from 2-cycle to Saito engines. So far I've got a 72, a 62 and a 56 (last one on a brand new, not yet flown Balsa USA Sopwith Pup that I built this winter). In the Saito manuals, they state that the preferred fuel is 10 to 15% nitro, and 20% oil content. Any responses won't help me this year, as I've already ordered (through my local Hobby Town) two cases of Bryon, 15% Nitro, Traditional Gen II (the one with 20% oil content). Not a bad price, (I used it last year, and like it) $20 per gallon in the 2 case quantity. But they also carry the Omega, 15% nitro, with only 16% oil content, which I could have gotten for at least a couple of dollars less per gallon in a 2 case buy.

For next year's flying season. Is the 20% oil content an over kill? I've seen fuel with no castor at all, totallysynthetic. Any one using this in Saito engines?
Old 04-03-2013, 02:37 PM
  #24605  
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OK homer..say 'sorry bout that'
Old 04-04-2013, 04:25 AM
  #24606  
Fred L
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

I use Power Master 20/20. I believe the extra 5% of nitro helps over come the large amount of oil in performance. Also the fact that is says "Saito
' on the can helps too. $22 per gallon
Old 04-04-2013, 04:32 AM
  #24607  
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I have been running Omega 15% in all my engines 2 and 4 stroke, OS and Saito for almost 20 years and never had a problem that wasn't created by me. It runs good and is reliable.

L.
Old 04-04-2013, 04:37 AM
  #24608  
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Fred, I 've had four gallons of WildCat 2/4 which is 18% all synthetic here for a couple of years. So far I can't tell any difference in the sound or the performance of any Saito I've run it in. I can't make any long term statements yet. I don't break engine in on it though.
Old 04-04-2013, 09:52 AM
  #24609  
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I run everything on Omega 15% with a few ounces of Morgan castor added.
Old 04-05-2013, 06:05 AM
  #24610  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

It's amazing to me that these little engines run pretty well no matter what kind of fuel they are fed. Even an engine that's too lean will survive if not run too long that way. I know some folks have to have the last rpm out of them, but for the most of us just slightly rich gits it every time.

Old 04-05-2013, 07:17 AM
  #24611  
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I know a guy some 4-5 years ago who bought a brand new Saito and installed it in a racer plane. He repeatedly tried to peak his engine and it would lean out and quit in flight everytime. Some of us watching him tried to convince him that it was harmful to his engine, but he would not listen. I don't know what happened to his Saito, but quit the hobby soon after that. It seems that it wasn't that he didn't understand, he just had a "bad attitude" and eventually destroyed his planes and got out of the hobby. Maybe he needed some extra medication!!!
Old 04-05-2013, 09:24 AM
  #24612  
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Every club probably has one of those kind of people every few years or so. If not, they should try it once. They can be aggravating, entertaining, dangerous, and the source of stories that are told for years. Most guys tried to help the last one to try the flying hobby at our club, but a few would wind him up like a rubber band.
Old 04-05-2013, 11:48 PM
  #24613  
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Old Fart, I'm back. The trip for the SAM 1788 champs was great.  Had a number of notable things happen (not to me)
1/ Actually saw a bent Saito 65 shaft.  I mean it was so bent that you couldn't miss it at a guess I would say about 5 degrees plus.  The motor failed to shut off the model went on its back and the wing tips met and it came in vertical full bore from about 400feet.
2/Saw the difference between a Saito 62 on 30% nitro turning a 12 x 6 APC verses a 13 x 6 Bolly, about 500feet and about believe it or not 500 rpm more (12,100 by 2 tachometers) , and better height on the Bolly
3/ Saw another 62 with rattly bearings and rockers shaft run and seize (to bloody lean) at 6,000 RPM  or there abouts.  He was trying to get same RPM as engine in 2.
4/ Saw another Saito (or maybe an OS demolish a dog house and another one go through a metal garage (single car type)4/ And some extraordinary antics by a couple of Dubbjets that persistantly (and final achieved) tried to bury themselves
Me, I came home with a sweet running 65 (after an extensive rebuild), and a new respect for OS 32SXH engines fitted with Nelson mufflers.
Saw the new Taipan 2.5 replica and noted the demise of my favourite engine, the YS 63, in favour of the Saito 62 on steroids.
Great w/end believe it or not now looking forward the SAM Australia champs at Coota in October.
BTB those 4 channel Spectrum R/x's are the bees knees for the O/t application.  
Old 04-06-2013, 04:17 AM
  #24614  
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Mate that sounds like an amazing week
Old 04-06-2013, 02:58 PM
  #24615  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

I was at the Toldeo RC show this Friday. it was really cool. Fox 4 stroke plugs for $3.30 each when you buy 12.

Wildcat 30% fuel for $19 per gallon. I was going to try some 65% for $30 per gallon. WOW. that would heat up a saito.
Old 04-06-2013, 03:37 PM
  #24616  
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Old Fart, it was an amazing week, there were a total of approx 50 people who competed in such events as vintage control line racing, vintage glider, and Free flight.  The O/T events were 2cc (no Saitos) 1/2A Texaco (with Leroy's revenge the only power plant) Antique, (sparkies and diesels) Texaco, (with heaps of Diesel 4 strokes and Saitos), and Duration (Saitos off all sizes and 2 strokes and Sparkies).
The odd bod was a device that had a Saito case and crankshaft, OS 40 fourstroke barrel, piston and rod, hybrid cam shaft (Saito mount style), Enya Valves (reputedly).  Interesting, (like its constructor) and was the dog it sounds like.
Saito 62s and 56s are the most popular amongst the new engines with 50s and 65s being used by the old guard (read me).  The big problem is ringing economy (Texaco) which means leaning them out to stupid settings or pouring nitro into worn engines and then leaning for performance.  Regular settings (a little smoke on the ground) sensible props (my overhauled 65 would not tolerate its usual 16 x 8 (I used a Taipan 14 x 7) and consistency gave good finishes for those who were so inclined.
On props, I heard from very reliable sources that Bolly is back in business, though only with model props. Will relay more when I find out and I gather that there are people doing simiar work in Sydney. I am thinking that when things settle in my life (soon I hope) I might get back into producing custom carbon fibre props.
BTB have you looked at the crams site for data about the Gratton / Spectrum do that was on earlier this year.  Good stuff.
Catch ya  
Old 04-06-2013, 04:38 PM
  #24617  
triumphman49
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

FNQFLYER,

Was looking on the Bolly website today, as been trying to find a 12x4.5W carbon prop - used or otherwise. Missed a used one on the bay. Saw a listing of rc props where a minimum order quantity was 50. The 12x4.5W was listed in blue, and I never could figure out why.

Trying to come up with this prop for both my FA60T and the new NV (Norvel) GX40 BB gasser - runs on a Turbo glow plug (no ignition box).

If you happen across any further info that might help in securing this prop, I'd sure appreciate a PM.

Many Thanx
T-man49 in Al
Saito 723
Spitfire Bro 19
Old 04-06-2013, 05:14 PM
  #24618  
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On glo plugs.  When I was using the YS 53 and 63 in Duration I would use an existing plug (YS type) for the rounds andswap for a brand new one for the final round (fly off). That plug would stay in the engine (unless it failed) until the next competition fly off.  In the past I used to discard them once they came out of the engine I now use them in sports 2 strokes and ocassionally in my 4 stroke glos.  I can upon this by accident when a normal Saito plug blew in a "sports model" powered by a Saito 50 and al I had left was a "left over" YS 63 plug.  That plug got retired recently because of a re designation to competition use and for no other reason.  I think it lasted about a year of steady flying.  Recycleing saves a bit of mney when sensibily applied.
Just a thought for you lot and your discussions on glo plugs.  I use YS plugs in YS's, Saito plugs in Saitos (bit more expensive but eliability is required) for competition and Enya No 3's in all 2 strokes and Enya 4 strokes.  There are special plugs we use when we want to alter the timimg slightly in competition but those I'll keep to my self.  The edge factor.   
Old 04-07-2013, 01:55 AM
  #24619  
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Sounds like a mint meeting and well sponsered by some of the top distributers over here.I wonder why some of the diehard saito tuners don't query your prop figures.The reason i'm asking is because from what i've read so far about how you use small capacity saito singles and the size props they will pull,it's detonation timecheers mate

ps will have to spend some travel money and get to coota next year hope to see you there
Old 04-07-2013, 03:48 AM
  #24620  
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FNQ, I luv those Bolly props and Saitos luv them too, they idle so nice with them. I'm may check out a new .65 with a Bolly 13.5x6 and a 12.5x8 this PM.
Old 04-07-2013, 06:12 PM
  #24621  
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Old Fart, the detonation thing you talk about does happen with new engines and sometimes with rebuilds.  What you have to remember is that tese figures are "snuck up on".  That is the engines are moved up in the performance band "gently" and we follow a very strict procedure (mostly factory) to get there. We have a number of props that we know will deliver X rpms under given conditions and that is what we aim for.  I some times look at the test box and wonder how much is tied up in props, spinners and nuts and various exhaust bits.  A good forinstance was my 65, wasn't "run in properly" and would not tolerate the 16x8 that my mates was easily using.  It constantly backfired and spat props.  It ran in the contest (Texaco) very happily with a 14x7 Taipan.  After we ran it at home base to put presertative through it it handled the 16x8 with no worries at all.  All it took was another 15 minutes of running
Re Coota, it is a "one off" being run as a substitute event for the Nationals in October THIS YEAR..  There will be a contigent of WA flyers attending Canowindra next Easter.  Maybe you should look them up they are a good crew, we like them cause we can still beat them 
Catch Ya.  
Old 04-07-2013, 06:18 PM
  #24622  
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Hobbsy, those props should work ok, the 12 inch might have a bit to much pitch though.
I was talking to Len (of Bolly fame) and now have his website would suggest you google Bolly props and see what you get.
He made my 12.5 x 5.5's by basically re twisting a 13 x 6 and trimming it.  I got him to balance them and they are still my favourite for, Enya and YS 53s, Saito 56 ad 50 at a pitch plus numerous 2 strokes.  I use my secial build 13.5 x 6.5 on the YS 63 and used to also use it on the Saito 65 until I broke a few now only used on the YS until I can afford to restock.
You should really try that 13 on a 62 but only after you have used an APC 13x6.
Catch ya 
Old 04-08-2013, 09:01 AM
  #24623  
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ORIGINAL: FNQFLYER

Old Fart, the detonation thing you talk about does happen with new engines and sometimes with rebuilds. What you have to remember is that tese figures are ''snuck up on''. That is the engines are moved up in the performance band ''gently'' and we follow a very strict procedure (mostly factory) to get there. We have a number of props that we know will deliver X rpms under given conditions and that is what we aim for. I some times look at the test box and wonder how much is tied up in props, spinners and nuts and various exhaust bits. A good forinstance was my 65, wasn't ''run in properly'' and would not tolerate the 16x8 that my mates was easily using. It constantly backfired and spat props. It ran in the contest (Texaco) very happily with a 14x7 Taipan. After we ran it at home base to put presertative through it it handled the 16x8 with no worries at all. All it took was another 15 minutes of running
Re Coota, it is a ''one off'' being run as a substitute event for the Nationals in October THIS YEAR.. There will be a contigent of WA flyers attending Canowindra next Easter. Maybe you should look them up they are a good crew, we like them cause we can still beat them
Catch Ya.


Is this right? a 16X8 on a saito 65. I was running a 16X6 on a Saito 1.25. I would love to see a video of that prop/engine combo running. Chug Chug Wow.
Old 04-08-2013, 09:30 AM
  #24624  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

ORIGINAL: jkr_1100


ORIGINAL: FNQFLYER

Old Fart, the detonation thing you talk about does happen with new engines and sometimes with rebuilds. What you have to remember is that tese figures are ''snuck up on''. That is the engines are moved up in the performance band ''gently'' and we follow a very strict procedure (mostly factory) to get there. We have a number of props that we know will deliver X rpms under given conditions and that is what we aim for. I some times look at the test box and wonder how much is tied up in props, spinners and nuts and various exhaust bits. A good forinstance was my 65, wasn't ''run in properly'' and would not tolerate the 16x8 that my mates was easily using. It constantly backfired and spat props. It ran in the contest (Texaco) very happily with a 14x7 Taipan. After we ran it at home base to put presertative through it it handled the 16x8 with no worries at all. All it took was another 15 minutes of running
Re Coota, it is a ''one off'' being run as a substitute event for the Nationals in October THIS YEAR.. There will be a contigent of WA flyers attending Canowindra next Easter. Maybe you should look them up they are a good crew, we like them cause we can still beat them
Catch Ya.


Is this right? a 16X8 on a saito 65. I was running a 16X6 on a Saito 1.25. I would love to see a video of that prop/engine combo running. Chug Chug Wow.
Those big props are MUY MACHO[8D]
Old 04-08-2013, 02:29 PM
  #24625  
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Re props, we use big props at slow revs to get the best fuel consumption in the Texaco event.  The fuel allocation for a 4 stroke is 3mls per pound of a/c weight.  The flighjt time qualifer in the "rounds".  In my Bomber (Lanzo) I usually get about 12 mls for a 4 + minute engine run for an estimated a/c height of around 800 to 1,000 feet and believe me staying up for the next 6 minutes is a real test.  Another 3 +  mls is a very great advantage.  Now please consider that with these big props we run at a max rpm of around 5 to 6,000 rpm, take of on normal throttle and climb on fixed throttle (transmitter mix) maintaining about 4,500rpm ideally.  We usually run "supplied" read cotrolled fuel, 10 to 15% nitro and 20% oil either castor or synthetic.
Now the same engine running in Duration (verical drag race) has a 32 sec engine run time for a round qualifer of 7 minutes.  In this configuration it usually runs a 13 x6 Bolly prop.  This prop is light (higher RPM) has better blade design (higher RPM) and is usually running on 30 to 35% Nitro with Heli oil (low viscosity).  When I am away I regularly run the same engine / airframe combo for both Texaco and Duration the only differences are the prop, fuel type and applropriate tuning
I do not run super lean infact I lean out and back off about 200 to 500 rpm (by tacho reading).  I have never blown an engine of mine in competition and the worst I have had to do is change bearings mostly due to corrosion. (Humid here in FNQ) And as I have said these engines are bought new and subject to careful running as per Saito recommendations.
My mate and I have broken a number of second hand engines that have fallen into our clutches, but most of those breakages culd be put down to prior misuse
If you want to see engines rung out like this attend your local SAM capters events.
 

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