Notices
Glow Engines Discuss RC glow engines

Welcome to Club SAITO !

Old 04-16-2013, 06:10 AM
  #24651  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Guilford, CT
Posts: 3,950
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

"All things electric are powered by smoke contained within them. When all their smoke is almost used up, the remainder escapes out and the device is dead, usually forever"

Famous quote by Benjamin Edison, or was it Thomas Franklin? [8D]
Old 04-16-2013, 06:19 AM
  #24652  
My Feedback: (12)
 
Quikturn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: West Des Moines, IA
Posts: 933
Received 6 Likes on 6 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Some motors are very cheap. In fact, I'm looking at $12-13 motors right now for an F-16 foamy project. The biggest expense in electrics are batteries IMO. That is, unless you only get one battery and get about one flight per hour on it.

What's so cool about this hobby is that there are so many directions to go. I know some people who hate 4-strokes and only stick with 2-strokes and vise versa. Some are only into gas or electric power. Personally, I like 2 and 4 stroke glow engines and will never give those up. When my fellow club members raz me and say things like slimer, I just laugh and say that I like the smell of glow fuel in the morning (and afternoon, and evening). I like glow engines, period.

However, I do like to have at least one electric airplane on hand. I must say, there is a convenience factor here. Simply plug and play. Sometimes I just don't have the time to spend a day or half day at the field so if I can throw an electric in the trunk of my car, stop by a park on the way to work (or something), I can get one two flights in in 30 minutes or so.

Getting back to my F-16 project, I decided to upgrade the EDF unit from a 5 blade to a 10 blade fan. This will eliminate that annoying mosquito sound that most (if not all) electrics have and give that cool turbine sound. In the process, I've come to realize you can't just put a power package together and not smoke something. There is a lot of math that goes into this. I personally think this is pretty cool and give the electric gurus a lot of respect for their knowledge on these things.

Below is a link showing the difference between 5 blade and 10 blade EDF units.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qvWGDk1htjw

And now back to Saito's! Sorry for the diversion.
Old 04-16-2013, 06:59 AM
  #24653  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dearborn, MI
Posts: 3,216
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

I have all the powerplant variety except 4-stroke gas. That seems to be out of my financial reach thus far. But I enjoy them all.

An interesting thing about glow fuel smell: I ran an engine with zero nitro last year and the smell was very different, without the nitro, it smelled like alcohol. It seems that the nitro smell overcomes the alcohol smell if it is present in the fuel. With zero nitro, the place smelled like a distillery.
Old 04-16-2013, 07:22 AM
  #24654  
 
Sport_Pilot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Acworth, GA
Posts: 16,916
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !


ORIGINAL: Hobbsy

You'll not find me lowering the compression, my 1.50 has 15.5 to 1 compression and my old .80 has 14.56 to 1. Compression ==torque. I say, why reduce the torque and efficiency just so you can run higher nitro further reducing efficiency and increasing fuel consumption. That's just me though.

The nitro actually adds more torque than lowering the compression ratio, but yes at a much lower efficiency.
Old 04-16-2013, 07:24 AM
  #24655  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Guilford, CT
Posts: 3,950
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !


ORIGINAL: hsukaria

I have all the powerplant variety except 4-stroke gas. That seems to be out of my financial reach thus far. But I enjoy them all.

An interesting thing about glow fuel smell: I ran an engine with zero nitro last year and the smell was very different, without the nitro, it smelled like alcohol. It seems that the nitro smell overcomes the alcohol smell if it is present in the fuel. With zero nitro, the place smelled like a distillery.

Like a lot of things, an adulterant often makes the smell better, especially in the morning, or evening, or anytime.
Old 04-16-2013, 02:32 PM
  #24656  
Senior Member
 
SrTelemaster150's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Brasher Falls, NY
Posts: 3,904
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot


ORIGINAL: Hobbsy

You'll not find me lowering the compression, my 1.50 has 15.5 to 1 compression and my old .80 has 14.56 to 1. Compression ==torque. I say, why reduce the torque and efficiency just so you can run higher nitro further reducing efficiency and increasing fuel consumption. That's just me though.

The nitro actually adds more torque than lowering the compression ratio, but yes at a much lower efficiency.



With CDI you can raise both CR & nitro content for a BIG HP boost.

My 12.77:1 CR Saito FA180HC CDI BBC spins a Dynathgrust 18 X 8 @ 8850 RPM for just under 4HP burning 30% O'Donnell Speed Blend fuel lit of @ 35° BTDC by an old (irca 1997) C&H MK I Synchrospark CDI..

Still consumes about the same volume of fuel as the stock FA180 does W/15% glow fuel running on glow ignition. About 42% HP increase.
Old 04-16-2013, 03:16 PM
  #24657  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Cairns, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 1,053
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Interesting, I am also finding that fuel burn (no matter what the nitro content) seems to be about the same.  Increase in rpm doesn't always equate to increase in fuel burn if the nitro content is moved up.  Another point to consider is that not all engines are made the same, my old flying mate now has 3 x 65's all of which burn fuel at different rates and it really burn him that he can't get any more than 2.5 minutes on 12 mils of fuel where my contest 65 is getting 4.5 minutes plus on the same allocation.  Methinks rinfg and bearings are in order and maybe if we can get the bath to work possible a re chrome of the bore.
Interesting times
Old 04-17-2013, 04:39 AM
  #24658  
My Feedback: (102)
 
Hobbsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Colonial Beach, VA
Posts: 20,370
Likes: 0
Received 25 Likes on 25 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

F, here is a site that has three Saito .65 listed with three different compression ratios. They are
12.7
10.5
8.6 for the latest, (updated version) I think I may have the wimpy one.

http://sceptreflight.net/Model%20Eng...e%20model.html

http://sceptreflight.net/Model%20Eng...to%20FA-80.pdf This is the .80 I have which is listed as 15.5 to 1.
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Ec88218.jpg
Views:	24
Size:	50.0 KB
ID:	1872904  
Old 04-17-2013, 05:24 AM
  #24659  
 
Rudolph Hart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Perth, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 4,383
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !


ORIGINAL: spaceworm


ORIGINAL: hsukaria

I have all the powerplant variety except 4-stroke gas. That seems to be out of my financial reach thus far. But I enjoy them all.

An interesting thing about glow fuel smell: I ran an engine with zero nitro last year and the smell was very different, without the nitro, it smelled like alcohol. It seems that the nitro smell overcomes the alcohol smell if it is present in the fuel. With zero nitro, the place smelled like a distillery.

Like a lot of things, an adulterant often makes the smell better, especially in the morning, or evening, or anytime.
Hi spacey do you mean,and my God i hope you're right..can we drink this stuff as well as smell it to our hearts content?
Old 04-17-2013, 02:13 PM
  #24660  
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
 
Cougar429's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Tecumseh, ON, CANADA
Posts: 1,233
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

I grew up on IC and was a motorhead before I hit my teens, (rebuilt my first engine at 12!). To me there is just nothing like the sound of a well tuned IC engine. Used to have a Merlin powered Spitfire buzz my place, but even with that sweet scream nothing gets my heart beating like a fire snorting radial.

I have to tell the truth and state I also dabble in the Dark Arts. All my helis are electric and I have a few planes, (pair of amphib Polaris) and now getting into EDF this season. Electrics are fun and another option, but that's it. The day I drop my last Saito will likely mean it's going in the ground with me.

spaceworm, I may be getting this wrong, but I suspect the minute I think "adulterant" the wife's getting out the chainsaw.
Old 04-19-2013, 04:38 AM
  #24661  
 
Rudolph Hart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Perth, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 4,383
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !


ORIGINAL: Hobbsy

Pete, you mean that there are actual electric powered planes. Never saw one at my house.
I bet you're fibbin if it gets as cold as it looks where you are you'd have to fly indoors would'nt you? to relieve the no flying pain
Old 04-19-2013, 04:47 AM
  #24662  
My Feedback: (102)
 
Hobbsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Colonial Beach, VA
Posts: 20,370
Likes: 0
Received 25 Likes on 25 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Actually a neighbor in Alexandria, Va gave me a flying wing with an electric motor about 10 years ago. It had no actual throttle, just full blatt and off. It flew very fast, I removed its radio gear and the rest went into the big gray. rubber barrel. So, I was fibbin a little.
Old 04-19-2013, 05:19 AM
  #24663  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dearborn, MI
Posts: 3,216
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !


ORIGINAL: Hobbsy

Actually a neighbor in Alexandria, Va gave me a flying wing with an electric motor about 10 years ago. It had no actual throttle, just full blatt and off. It flew very fast, I removed its radio gear and the rest went into the big gray. rubber barrel. So, I was fibbin a little.
Hard Core!!!

I have to concede that I give-in to electric in the ducted fan jet arena. I don't see an easy was around small park-flyer jet models but to use EDF's. Otherwise, I love glow and gas.
Old 04-19-2013, 05:25 AM
  #24664  
My Feedback: (12)
 
Quikturn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: West Des Moines, IA
Posts: 933
Received 6 Likes on 6 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

My first electric plane was a Zagi flying wing. The stock setup was very anemic and was very difficult to launch. It flew this way once or twice and would stall very easy due to lack of power. I then upgraded it to a brushless motor and LiPo battery and it was like a missile. CG has to be nuts on with a flying wing. Hard to keep orientation with it too.
Old 04-19-2013, 10:37 AM
  #24665  
Senior Member
 
SrTelemaster150's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Brasher Falls, NY
Posts: 3,904
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

ORIGINAL: Hobbsy

You'll not find me lowering the compression, my 1.50 has 15.5 to 1 compression and my old .80 has 14.56 to 1. Compression ==torque. I say, why reduce the torque and efficiency just so you can run higher nitro further reducing efficiency and increasing fuel consumption. That's just me though.
Increased compression is better than a free lunch as long as one doesn't go to far & create detonation problems. It can be problematic W/glow ignition though.

Higher CR developes more TQ all other things being equal & is more effecient in extracting every bit of power from the A/F mixture.

If you play your cards right, increased CR = more power W/better fuel economy.
Old 04-19-2013, 10:49 AM
  #24666  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Guilford, CT
Posts: 3,950
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !


ORIGINAL: SrTelemaster150

ORIGINAL: Hobbsy

You'll not find me lowering the compression, my 1.50 has 15.5 to 1 compression and my old .80 has 14.56 to 1. Compression ==torque. I say, why reduce the torque and efficiency just so you can run higher nitro further reducing efficiency and increasing fuel consumption. That's just me though.
Increased compression is better than a free lunch as long as one doesn't go to far & create detonation problems. It can be problematic W/glow ignition though.

Higher CR developes more TQ all other things being equal & is more effecient in extracting every bit of power from the A/F mixture.

If you play your cards right, increased CR = more power W/better fuel economy.
And high CR can eliminate or at least reduce the percent of Nitro needed. Some of my higher CR engines do not need, and in fact, do not tolerate high nitro. 0 percent or max 5% is all they need. I alos mix my own fuel using speed shop methanol and Sig or Klotz castor.
Old 04-19-2013, 11:17 AM
  #24667  
blw
My Feedback: (3)
 
blw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Opelika, AL
Posts: 9,447
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

My wife lets me do just about anything I want to, but flying glow engines indoors isn't one of them. I have a small electric Vapor and a small coax helicopter for living room flying. I teach a small course one day a week to fly indoor electrics. I get paid to fly them indoors in a gigantic basketball coliseum at the university. Otherwise, give me noise and glow.
Old 04-19-2013, 11:37 AM
  #24668  
My Feedback: (102)
 
Hobbsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Colonial Beach, VA
Posts: 20,370
Likes: 0
Received 25 Likes on 25 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

I made some noise with a glow engine a few minutes ago. I had a Saito .56 a few years ago and it was mounted on a Cherokee 40 that was heavy. I ran a MA three blade 12x6 on it which it turned at 8,800 rpm. It flew just fine but I wondered how a .62 would compare with the three blade 12x6. The TurboHeader was already on it so I just left as is.
Saito plain .62
Prop MA 12x6 3 blade
Fuel WildCat 15% with 18% 80/20 syn/castor blend.
Plug===Fox Miracle
Valve lash, nice, easy slide .003"
Max rpm====10.100' Idle ========1,950

I did not expect the .62 to out turn the .56 by that much.
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Ge95888.jpg
Views:	28
Size:	53.9 KB
ID:	1873862  
Old 04-19-2013, 03:02 PM
  #24669  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Cairns, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 1,053
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

At the Ballarat Nationals (many years ago) one of our QLD number had just finished rebuilding a racing OS 61 (4 stroke).  Of course it had to be tested and the rooms were relatively soundproof (aren't they) so what was a boy to do.  Very noisy but running engines rich produces lots of smoke and eventually causes greatr panic in the Hotel / motel combinations of the day.  His fame (DP we don't forget) lives on in the annals of Old Timer flying.
I find a lot of motels also don't understand the mystique of diesel fuel, that ether odour equates to some people as a possible crack lab or something equally as evil.  Ah the problems of modern life.  
Old 04-20-2013, 12:06 AM
  #24670  
 
Rudolph Hart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Perth, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 4,383
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Diesel takes me straight back to free flight models as a kid,smells so nice.I'm about to fit a cline regulator to an inverted 82 in my decathlon which has a high tank position.Anybody here have any tips as to priming and tuning with the cline,any differences compared to the standard fuel setup?
Old 04-20-2013, 03:59 AM
  #24671  
My Feedback: (102)
 
Hobbsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Colonial Beach, VA
Posts: 20,370
Likes: 0
Received 25 Likes on 25 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Pete, carefully set the needles without the Cline regulator, then when you install it there will be very little if any change in the needle settings. You'll need a way to open the tank pressure line while you fill the tank. I like to pre=pressurize the tank using a Sullivan fuel bulb by injecting air through the check valve. In a cowled situation this may not be possible.
Old 04-20-2013, 09:27 AM
  #24672  
My Feedback: (102)
 
Hobbsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Colonial Beach, VA
Posts: 20,370
Likes: 0
Received 25 Likes on 25 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Pete, here is PB Blaster at Amazon.com if you want the genuine article.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss...er%2Caps%2C227
Old 04-20-2013, 09:29 AM
  #24673  
My Feedback: (102)
 
Hobbsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Colonial Beach, VA
Posts: 20,370
Likes: 0
Received 25 Likes on 25 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Anybody looking for Saito velocity stacks, Horizon currently has them in stock. I ordered two and a new throttle arm for my .62. I split the hole out on mine.
Old 04-20-2013, 04:52 PM
  #24674  
 
Rudolph Hart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Perth, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 4,383
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Thanks for that wd40 should be fine then.Re the cline regulator set up and initial priming,i'm using a pressure line off the exhaust with an os oneway check valve.Can't i just open the throttle fully and block the muffler outlet with my thumb while flicking it over and get a prime that way??
Old 04-20-2013, 04:55 PM
  #24675  
 
Rudolph Hart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Perth, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 4,383
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

I use velocity stacks on them all,how did you damage the throttle arm?

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.