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Welcome to Club SAITO !

Old 05-16-2013, 02:54 PM
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Hobbsy, I have a lot of reviews (in book form) from the old RCM mag and I am picking up on all that sort of data.  My old OS and Saito books talk about on one hand the benefits of castor verses "the new oils" and as time progresses the same author has a complete reversal of opinion for various means such as you suggested.  The Saito cylinder is as near a copy of the standard P&W cylinder design (1340 and 1830 in particular) as you could get.  When I was involved in rebuilds of those as an apprentice I learnt a bit about oils and run in procedures and extending life etc.  I have run the gamit of using new thin oils so salvaging oil from dumped engines to keep going.  The one thing I have learnt is that if you listen really carefully the engine will tell you what is happening and you ignore the signs at your peril.
And when it comes to fuel, oil, glo plugs and props you will get one more opinion than there are people in the room, and usually only one is really rigjht and that is me (sic) (said tongue in cheek) .  But all this conversation makes for interesting reading doesn't it
Old 05-16-2013, 03:01 PM
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It does indeed, I learned a lot about oil working for Valvoline oil in the 60s and then from Kevin Cameron of Cycle World fame and various articles in Hot Rod and Motor Trend, Cycle Guide, Rider, etc. There is an old saying here concerning something that can't get out of its own way, that applies to thick il unless its in an environment like your big radials, lots of heat and lots of clearance.
Old 05-16-2013, 03:43 PM
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As I get older I remember and look back fondly on my time in 1:1 Aviation and even though I am now on the edges and not "full time" I can take the time to appreciate what I have seen and been a part of.  Every day I go into town I pass the GA side of the a/port and see a Shorts Hastings (do you know what that is), the only one left flyable in the world and a DC3 side by side and then a little further away the Kingairs, Pilatius's etc that are the modern era, and when I go to my shed I handle the old Enys and ETAs and EDs which are beside my Saitos YS's and others and once again marvel at how far we have become.
The move back to Brisbane terrifies me to some extent.  The worst part is my olf flying mate (who I am going to be spending a lot more time with) has got his 2 new mobility scooters.  I is a replica Royal Enfield (out of India) and a Triumph Commando (not Norton) the road going version of the one he used to race.  The enfield has a side car and he is going to expect me to ride with him.  Scary thought cause he rides throttle wide open.
Such is life
Lastly heaven is an aircraft with a round engine and its bum on the ground.  
Old 05-16-2013, 03:47 PM
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Hobbsy, on clearences, yes you are right and believe me the oil we used (100W was standard) was heavy when cold, I found out the hard way you couldn't use it in your freiendly Ford in cold weather particulary
But to the point, how many people do you think have heard any round Pratt engine fire up from cold on a winters morning, all that initial banging was the loose fitting "everything" going round in an attempt to fire up but when they did boy did they work.   </p>
Old 05-16-2013, 04:22 PM
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Dave- I may have that review somewhere but did he say the general clearance was .001, the skirt, or crown?

I can remember a couple of engines that had to use 50 wt.
Old 05-16-2013, 04:38 PM
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00wt Sheel oil was this creamy yellow cover and after we topped up the test truck oil tank we had to scrap out the remainder.  When we tested the engines or oil regulators and such, we had a heater on the bench (or truck) that heated up the oil before we started the test.  I burnt out a few starters on my Ford before I realised what was going on and changed to a Holden (Chev) they had stronger starters.
In my Saitos I use that you beaut Klotz heli oil is great and in aviations is "an ashless disperant" type oil (= no crap like carbon etc in the exhaust)
Old 05-17-2013, 01:36 AM
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See our v8 boys are racing over there in texas this weekend,tune in everybody..they sound and look great.I'll look at that klotz heli oil too,using klotz200 for my glow saito's and the fg57 as well,what do you think about that?
Your mates commando was a featherbed frame/roadholder forks and 650 triumph engine? i ride a goldframe ducati 996.
Old 05-17-2013, 02:04 AM
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Crikey mate i've just looked at the tv coverage for the 'road americas' round of the v8 supercars and you won't believe what time it is on over here.I think the yanks have got one over us or can we shift the whole continent closer to our time frame.Come to think about it we might as well convert them to metric at the same time,much more convenient for us.
Old 05-17-2013, 04:52 AM
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Barry, I mis-spoke above, it was in the early, (11.24 to 1) high compression 1.50 where CL mentioned the .001" clearance.

I grew up 12 air miles from the Pittsburgh airport and those old four engine airliners would turn on final using our 20x60' silo as the turn marker. I got to hear that big radial rumble a lot.

I would love to have one of those India built Enfield 500s

I flew in a Short Bros. 330 more than once from Pittsburgh to Charleston, W.Va

There was a small airport near our house where there were a lot Cessna's, Piper's etc, but one plane stands pout in my memory, a Mooney Mite, its the only one I have ever seen. It may have had an early Saito in it. The guy who owned it was Jim Shannon, his shoulders nearly made the sides bulge as he wriggled down into it.

I run 25w60 RevTech oil in my Harley, It's a dino oil that stays in the engine. I have tried the Asmsoil Synthetic and it goes through it like soup through a parched camel. In 5,000 miles it might use 4 oz of the RevTech.

Back to Saitos, I did a comparo between the old high compression Saito .80 and a much newer Saito .65.

Saito .80 compression==15.5 to 1
Prop 13.5x6 Bolly
Fuel WildCat 15% Premium Extra
Plug Fox Miracle
Rpm===10,250

Saito .65 compression==8.6 to 1
Prop 13.5x6
Fuel WildCat 15% Premium Extra
Plug==Taipan 4c
RPM===9,390
Old 05-17-2013, 05:23 AM
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Hobbsy, that Mooney Mite is fairly rare. A single seat airplane with a wooden wing. A twin Saito in there sounds about right. LOL.
Old 05-17-2013, 05:30 AM
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" it goes through it like soup through a parched camel"


That brings back memories of my younger days...


Regarding the comparison between the old 80 high compression with the new 65 low comp. I would have expected a much greater performance difference. Seems like that new 65 has got something right.
Old 05-17-2013, 05:48 AM
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That saying is from Smoky Yunich, I probably spelled his name wrong. Here is a link to the .65 update.

http://sceptreflight.net/Model%20Eng...e%20model.html
Old 05-17-2013, 06:07 AM
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Nice review!

I have a Saito 65 that came in the gold/black box, says its a hemi head and has the newer cast muffler. Would this have higher or lower compression stated?
Old 05-17-2013, 07:48 AM
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Quick, mine is also a black and gold boxed .65 .65, maybe w8ye will step in here and say which came first the blue and white or the black and gold boxes. Its easy to tell by flipping the engine that the .65 is much easier to flip than the HC .80.
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Old 05-17-2013, 08:19 AM
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I have the same version except for the newer style muffler and i have a plastic throttle lever. I think the blue/white came before the gold/black then the current white box version. The compression on my engine is like that of an abc 2 stroke. It bites. It hurt me even through a leather glove so now I just use a chicken stick.
Old 05-17-2013, 04:25 PM
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Couple of things,  The first is the Shorts a/c I was talking about, it was a Belfast not a Hastings (got mixed up I am chasing a wreck of a Hastings at the WRE in Sout Australia.  (The source of many Mustangs possibly Sea Swifts and numerous other obsure a/c.
re starting Saitos, I always use an electric starter on them after carefully pulling tem through a couple of compression strokes.  The only varient to this technique is the size of the starter.  Results speak for themselves, less frustration starting the engine, and no damaged body parts.
Lastly I have yet to come across a "low compression" Saito of any size, and all my engines since the late 80's have come in Black and Gold boxes , only the colour of the rocker covers and cylinders are different.
Old Fart do you remember back when Allan Moffat took and XY GTHO to Daytona and the Yanks laughed him off the track.  That was until he blew away the Plymouth Roadrunners and then they banned him It seems as if they couldn't stand they idea of our "improved production" saloons beating there NASCAR devices.  For the unknowing, an Improced Production Sedan was essentially a standard production car, thatr had a roll cage installed, better oils in the engine, drive train and brakle system a reworked exhaust and a blue printed engine with some internal mods.  They were very fast cars and with current tyre technology are the equal of the V* super cars running today.  Last needle, we have Aussies competing successfully in the US but none of the Yanks who have come here have yet to conquer the Mountain.  End of lecture.  
Old 05-17-2013, 04:28 PM
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Old Fart I have yet to try ouit the Klotz oil recommended by Saito for the gas engines, I have some and will be trying it in the FG20 that is to power the Storch that goes together when we settle after the move.  You'll like that Heli oil it is really good stuff and has a wide use spectrum.
The Coota Cup (read the O/T Nationals ) in on in October at Cootamundra NSW if you can make it, should be a good do.
Old 05-18-2013, 01:27 AM
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Dave i looked at those enfield 500's a fair while back,it's on my bucket list.Don't they run a front disc now instead of a nice twin leading shoe,more reliable electrics and cdi?

Still waiting for some parts so i can fly the 82 again
Old 05-18-2013, 04:23 AM
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Pete, the 500s also have fuel injection hidden in a Amal carb housing. Notice the pin stripe around the contour of the tank. They are hand painted by two brother, one works the day shift and the other the afternoon shift.

The US service center for the Shorts is/was in Allentown, Pa.

Quick, even at the lower 8.6 to 1 the .65 has a health kick when going over TDC
My old 1.50 is black with chrome rocker covers.
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Old 05-18-2013, 05:30 AM
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ORIGINAL: FNQFLYER

Old Fart I have yet to try ouit the Klotz oil recommended by Saito for the gas engines, I have some and will be trying it in the FG20 that is to power the Storch that goes together when we settle after the move. You'll like that Heli oil it is really good stuff and has a wide use spectrum.
The Coota Cup (read the O/T Nationals ) in on in October at Cootamundra NSW if you can make it, should be a good do.
Isn't KLOTZ for alchohol based fuels?
Old 05-18-2013, 05:34 AM
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ORIGINAL: Hobbsy

Pete, the 500s also have fuel injection hidden in a Amal carb housing. Notice the pin stripe around the contour of the tank. They are hand painted by two brother, one works the day shift and the other the afternoon shift.

The US service center for the Shorts is/was in Allentown, Pa.

Quick, even at the lower 8.6 to 1 the .65 has a health kick when going over TDC
My old 1.50 is black with chrome rocker covers.
Re the Indian Enfields: A friend had one back in the day (early nineties) and had problems with either the pistons or the valve springs (memory escapes me here). Seems he used Chevy parts to improve the reliability of them. Anyone heard of this? A few years ago, at the Wings over Delaware event, one vendor had what appeared to be a vintage BMW bike with the Earles front fork and a sidecar. Said it was a replica made in Russia. Very interesting. Thinking maybe the parts and assembly quality and the reliability were not same as BMW and Chevy parts would not help here[8D]

My old (used) Saito 1.20 ABC is plain with gold rocker covers and an early air bleed carb (purported to be better but more expensive than the TN carbs fitted later. Have not found anything about this engine and have not run it yet. Anyone have any knowledge of it (like fuel and oil needs and rec. prop)? Thanks.
Old 05-18-2013, 05:35 AM
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ORIGINAL: SrTelemaster150


ORIGINAL: FNQFLYER

Old Fart I have yet to try ouit the Klotz oil recommended by Saito for the gas engines, I have some and will be trying it in the FG20 that is to power the Storch that goes together when we settle after the move. You'll like that Heli oil it is really good stuff and has a wide use spectrum.
The Coota Cup (read the O/T Nationals ) in on in October at Cootamundra NSW if you can make it, should be a good do.
Isn't KLOTZ for alchohol based fuels?

Klotz has several oils suited for alcohol and/or gasoline.
Old 05-18-2013, 05:38 AM
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KLOTZ For Use With 2-Stroke Glow or Gas and 4-Stroke Engines
Blends With Methanol Alcohol, Nitromethane, or Gasoline
Biodegradable Formula
Ultimate In Lubrication Protection and Performance
BeNOL Fortified Film Strength and Anti-Scuff Protection
Extreme Load-Carrying Capacity To Eliminate Engine Wear
Clean-Burn Technology Reduces Carbon and Residue Build-Up
De-Gummed Formula Reduces Ring Sticking
Klotz Red Color For Easy Mixing and Castor Racy Odor
And four other Formulas
Old 05-18-2013, 03:41 PM
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Here's the vid for ya Spaceworm.

The resolution is poor due to me using the wrong settings but the sound is good and clear. It has a gallon through it now and the idle will putt-putt along varying from 1650 t0 1750 and rev right up to 7980. It hunts around a little bit from 7950-8030 with 7980 being the rpm that stays on the tach most. It's not really clear in the vid due to resolution but if you know the numbers you're looking for on the tach they are clearer. My tach is display x10 so at idle you see 165-177; WOT is 793-803.

MAS wood 16x8
Omega 15% snth/castor blend
75F 80% humidity


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciSd33w986Q

It 2.5 min, but you can skip the first 55sec unless you just like hearing a 200ti at WOT
Old 05-18-2013, 03:52 PM
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

This is one of my favorite clips of the FA200Ti in action.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBickqgN_fM[/youtube]

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