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Old 05-29-2013, 05:51 PM
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ORIGINAL: SJN

Look what I just got

I could not help it.....just had to own this awesome engine...
I got mine this spring NIB from a museum display $670 shipped.

They're discontinued @ Horizon.

So far I have Brian Taylor 83" Spifire plans & MK I-V Cowl from VIC RC.

It will just fit W/O any surgury to the cowl.
Old 05-29-2013, 05:54 PM
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Awesome engine with a great sound SJN. I saw one run and fly in a P51 once. I'd love to have one too but it's "spend money on motorcycle" season for me.
Old 05-29-2013, 06:02 PM
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ORIGINAL: Quikturn

Awesome engine with a great sound SJN.
Now hear this!


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBickqgN_fM[/youtube]
Old 05-30-2013, 05:10 AM
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You are so right sounds awesome and flown better,even tho the airstrip ain't up to this guys talent.
Old 05-30-2013, 06:33 AM
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ORIGINAL: Old Fart
...even tho the airstrip ain't up to this guys talent.
What problem do you have with the airstrip? Much better than most combat fields the FS flew off of.

Richard/Club Saito #635
Old 05-30-2013, 09:08 AM
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The real world power #s I'm seeing are a bit disapointing. Since its an even firing twin, I wonder how that engine would would resond to case pumping induction.

The rotating assemby displaces 2X the individual cylinder displacement on every reolution.

Hmmmm, a superchaged FA200Ti on CDI W/nitro-methanol fuel. THAT ought make a little power. It might make that 83" WS BT MK-V Spitfire keep up W/my FA450R3D radial powered Wurger.
Old 05-31-2013, 04:10 AM
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Depending on the efficiency of the valve system it would end up about 30 to 35% more powerful, the same as a YS or Webra T4 pumped. Probably because its a twin it would be more like 25% more powerful.
Old 05-31-2013, 05:28 AM
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Well richard since you asked thats hard to do that well where he did it frien d
Old 05-31-2013, 08:31 AM
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ORIGINAL: Hobbsy

Depending on the efficiency of the valve system it would end up about 30 to 35% more powerful, the same as a YS or Webra T4 pumped. Probably because its a twin it would be more like 25% more powerful.
Since the pistons rise & fall @ the same time, it might be pretty effecient.

I was looking @ the intake manifold & it should be easy to mount a larger carburetor faceing the rear from the junction block W/a manifold similar to your HC FA150..

Perhaps a 10mm FA150 carb?

The static CR of the FA200Ti is very high, about 13.5:1 if I remember correctly. It should easily make the advertised 3 HP W/some induction improvements. Maybe a bit more W/CDI.

The RPM #s I'm seeing are in the 2 HP range.
Old 05-31-2013, 10:10 AM
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This is the descendant of my Laser 1.80 V twin, that thing howled like the 358 Chevy in my friends E-mod. It had equal power to a Saito 1.50 but would do it on 5% fuel.

Finally
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Old 05-31-2013, 10:48 AM
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test

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Old 05-31-2013, 01:37 PM
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ORIGINAL: Hobbsy

This is the descendant of my Laser 1.80 V twin, that thing howled like the 358 Chevy in my friends E-mod. It had equal power to a Saito 1.50 but would do it on 5% fuel.

Well, no pics today.

The FA200Ti is supposed to make 3 HP but I'm nit seing those #s. That's about 8000-8100 RPM W/an 18 X 8 & I'm seeing reports of 1000 RPM less.

I'll get it wrung out. It's a fairly high compression engine & I think the iOE nduction is holding it back.
Old 05-31-2013, 08:24 PM
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You could try and Old Timer trick and select a carby of suitable size and construct a small inducton pipe (straight and "tuned length" and bolt is directly to te intake manifold.  The press fit of the current one could prove a little difficult but I have seen it done.  One using a 1A OS carby (Texaco) and the other was using a carby like we use on the Rossi's big bell mouth intake and big bore (Duration type).  Both appeared to give the desired results and co incidently were relatively tractable in use.</p>
Old 06-01-2013, 12:40 PM
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Nice catch there SJN

Since we are back on the subject of the 200ti it seems appropriate to ask a question re; my 200ti.

I have run about a gallon and a half through it and while the compression increased significantly early on it seems that now it has significantly decreased. The feel of the resistance at the prop when flipping it while warm rose to where it was like flipping over my FA125 which was expected...now it feels more like flipping my FA62 when warm and a little more resistance when cold. Not a good progression in my thinking.

The mixture has been kept on the rich side but not overly so; about 300rpm below peak and I rechecked and set the valves per my norm of using a double layer of cigarette pack cellophane and the Saito tool guage. Both methods yield the same result.
A dose of oil in the case nipple and flipping it while inverted helps some.

Ideas or thoughts? How did I mess this one up?

If I have inadvertantly glazed the cyl is there any method of renewing the ring seat without pulling the jugs and replacing the rings? How about the cyl...800-1000grit emorycloth and a fingertip sanding?

Quite intrested in a carb upgrade as well. Only stumbling block I see is in using a standard carb that this install requires a remote needle unless you sacrifice the access to the LSN and have a devil of a time accessing the throttle arm. The intake manifold doesn't have a great deal of meat to open up the inlet for a larger carb outlet either.
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Old 06-04-2013, 03:55 AM
  #24965  
 
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Barry i kiked the test photo and did'nt think that a 56? would rev as hard as a 30sc.
Old 06-04-2013, 03:57 AM
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They sound different than other saito multi's don't they,it's nice.
Old 06-04-2013, 04:01 AM
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Just got the rotoflow tank and two cline regulators plus some other bits for the deccy.Reading the cline regs instructions gives plenty to think about.

ps i'd gotten to thinking that these parts were coming by camel
Old 06-04-2013, 10:48 PM
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Gentlemen

it seems SrTele's & Hobbsy's hints for the running-in were very good. (Thanks again) My FA-125a has now a very good compression after 6 tanks or so. The fuel is 17% Aerosave + 5% nitro. Yes, I know i'm on a low side what comes to nitro % but since my Laser 240v likes that mix I don't want to fuss with many different fuels.

Tach readings with 15x8 APC and a Turbo Header muffler & 90 deg adapter:

peak 8550 (flashing 8700+)

As the engine is fairly new and as the nitro % very low I think the results are pretty much ok. I might get a couple of hundreds more rpm if I went to 15% nitro, I guess.

I followed Hobbsy's procedure to set up the LS needle, that is, leaving the HS temporarily at peak. I got a reliable idle at 2000-2100 rpm and good transition. I did this at tank 1/5 full. I then filled the tank and richened the HS needle by 5 clics or so which translated to 8250 rpm peak at ABSOLUTELY FULL tank. After this and at full tank the LS seems to be a bit rich now for some reason ( the reliable Idle is now at about 2300-2400 rpm) but I think I will let it be as it is for now and fly the model as the transition is still good.

I actually checked the manual which says richen the HS by 200-300rpm from the peak. However, the manual does not say anything about wether this is done at tank full or 1/2 tank, etc. So for this reason I'm hesitating if my procedure to set up the HS needle for flying is ok? I'm using a 17fl oz tank (500ml)

Any comments?

thanks, Artto



Old 06-05-2013, 04:08 AM
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Artto, you'll be fine with 5% nitro, I've tried it in all of them, only the little .30 could use the higher %. It needs to idle at about 2,500 on 5%. If you don't mind tinkering a little, try setting your LS and HS needles at 1/2 tank, I think you'll be pleased with the results.
Old 06-05-2013, 05:00 AM
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ORIGINAL: Hobbsy

Artto, you'll be fine with 5% nitro, I've tried it in all of them, only the little .30 could use the higher %. It needs to idle at about 2,500 on 5%. If you don't mind tinkering a little, try setting your LS and HS needles at 1/2 tank, I think you'll be pleased with the results.
Hobbsy, thanks for the hints on carrying out the tuning at 1/2 tank.

What I actually was concerned about is wether I richened the HS needle enough for flying as the 8250rpm is somewhat 300rpm below from the peak which is right "from the book".Although being right "from the book" I'm wondering if my HS needle tuning is appropriate as I did it at full tank and the engine goes leaner when the amount of the fuel decreases in the tank.

by the way, if you set your engines 300rpm below the peak (in case no cline, etc. is being used) at 1/2 tank this equals somewhat 400-500 below the peak at full tank?
Old 06-05-2013, 08:13 AM
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Arrto,

Sounds like you are getting there. I know the 125a's took more fuel to break in that other Saitos. They get a reputation of being low revvers.

OF- I seem to recall that is a 72 but I could be wrong. It is a post from a few years ago. The guy said it ran pretty good.
Old 06-05-2013, 12:40 PM
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ORIGINAL: blw

Arrto,

Sounds like you are getting there. I know the 125a's took more fuel to break in that other Saitos. They get a reputation of being low revvers.

OF- I seem to recall that is a 72 but I could be wrong. It is a post from a few years ago. The guy said it ran pretty good.
Hobbsy, William, SrTele

thanks, I actually flew the model today. It's a Seagull Zlin Z-50

In order to have peace in mind and to avoid a lean run on vertical climbs I tested the HS setting at 1/4 tank holding the model vertical nose up. I got a steady 8600+ rpm peak with no sign of the engine sagging.

So I decided to keep the HS needle setting as it was and I filled the tank. Final checks and off she went, a beautifull sight and bearing in mind this was my first engine rebuilding project I had very pleasant feeling!

I soon noticed the LS needle was definitely rich and so seemed to be the HS needle, too. The HS felt better on vertical climbs as the engine had good power on climbs but if I flew circles the engine just did not want sing as one would expect to happen as the engine unloads in the air.

I don't mind if the HS needle is bit on a rich side for the moment as the engine has run only about an hour or so in total so better stay on the safe side and not stress the engine too much.

The LS being rich produced a problem as I had to keep the rpm between 2500+ and with a 15x8 APC prop I had serious challenges to land the model on my 300 feet backyard airfield.

Despite all my attemps to slow down the model and even if I used 30 deg flaperons to slow down the model it came down to landing very "hot". I couldn't slow it down to a nice 3-point landing but had to "force" it on the ground. This let to a bouncy landing which translated to a slightly bent aluminium landing gear. Phew! no big issues, fortunately!

So I'm very pleased with how things have gone so far and this is why I'm writing here. So thank you all, this is a great forum!

I think my next phase is to tinker with the LS needle; as I reported earlier I had a reliable idle at 2000-2100 rpm when I first set the LS needle & the HS needle being temporarily set to peak rpm. And I think idle speed of 2100 or so with an APC 15x8 is pretty much you need to achieve if you want to land an aerobatic model confortably. Summing up things: Something has happened to my initial correct low speed mixture setting along with when I richened the HS needle to where it's now..?

but anyways, thank you all again

Artto

Old 06-05-2013, 02:49 PM
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Old Fart and others.  My move is gaining momentum but has presented problems.  The principal being old magazines.  Flying Models going back to the 60's in particular.  I have had to dump over 300 mags from various publications spanning from 1970 until the present.  HOWEVER I did save any articles from these magazines including how to build a roto flow tank, tuning and performance on the open rocker Saitos, and some early OS engines.  But the big thing I noticed how much 70's era data is essentially the same as what I see appearing here.
Once I settle I will start and make available particularly the data on the old Saitos.
The trip through model history was great as was the pain of not having any where to pass it all onto in total.  But at least the important stuff is preserved
Old 06-05-2013, 03:05 PM
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I would like to replace the carb on my FA-80 GK. Is there a source for the complete carb?

Thanks,
RJ
Old 06-05-2013, 07:29 PM
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hello i am back. i received my 125 from HH, and they replaced the bearings, told me to use afterun oil.  done so after 2 flights, however, plane is underpowered, and when it warms up, and i open throttle WO, she wants to die down.  this has happened both last flights.  i tried to open HSN and LSN, and no success, tried to tune needles, but not any better,.<div>i am using new nitro fuel and the tank is a root-tank, muffler tap is open, and line to tank and to carb are without leaks.  anyone know what this can be? i also replaced the glow plug, it still does not run better.  now, she has plenty of compression, and she will start and she will idle.</div>

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