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ASP FS400AR Radial Engine

Old 12-20-2006, 10:10 PM
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Kmot
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Default ASP FS400AR Radial Engine

Setting up the 400AR radial for break-in running.







I have long wanted a model radial engine. I obtained this ASP FS400AR radial a few months ago. Now, I am ready to start the break-in.

It comes with several accessories in the large wooden box. Various socket head screw wrenches, gaskets, glow plug wires, etc. And a so called display stand I have still yet to figure out how it works.



I have a PSP Mfg engine test stand, which in my opinion is the best test stand available for model airplane engines. I also have the optional back plate that allows installing the larger engines. It must be drilled for the particular engine you wish to mount. So far, it was drilled to accept a Magnum 1.60 twin. The first steps in running the radial was to prepare the back plate to accept the radial mount.



I applied some dykem to the backplate, and then clamped the radial mount in the position I wanted. Then I scribed the holes to be drilled.



Here, the holes are drilled and chamfered. You can also see the existing holes for the 1.60 twin.



The bottom hole had to be tapped for a 5mm screw, because it would not have been possible to push a screw through and use a nut on the other side.



Once I was able to mount the engine, I could determine where the hole for the carb linkage had to be drilled. I made it large enough to pass a clevis through.





It's now ready to mount to the engine stand, and give it a flip of the prop!

To be continued........
Old 12-20-2006, 11:49 PM
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Flyboy Dave
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Default RE: ASP FS400AR Radial Engine

....sweet, Tom.
Old 12-21-2006, 02:01 AM
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Kmot
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Default RE: ASP FS400AR Radial Engine

I know!

I'm really curious about how it sounds! [sm=tongue_smile.gif]

But, I can't mount my prop! I had to place an order for a 17/32 drill bit to fit the engine! [:@]
Old 12-21-2006, 02:45 AM
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Ustick
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Default RE: ASP FS400AR Radial Engine

Get after it man! I would LOVE to hear that thing run.

Hopefully you can supply some video.
Old 12-21-2006, 08:53 AM
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pe reivers
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Default RE: ASP FS400AR Radial Engine

I have protoype #004 of this engine, and have run it with a 24x10 prop. (see my Avatar
Be prepared to put maximum glow to the plugs, especially the lower cylinders. Running with constant glow regulators is an option.
The engine produces a great roar!
Old 12-21-2006, 11:46 AM
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Kmot
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Default RE: ASP FS400AR Radial Engine

Ustick: Drill bit will arrive tomorrow! Video is gauranteed! One reason I am making this thread, is because in all my research for more than one year, I have yet to see an AR400 running in a video, or even much of a breakdown of information on this engine. This thread will resolve that problem!

Pe: 24x10 is huge!! How well did it perform? As for glow plug lighting, I have purchased to of the large Hobbico dry cell batteries and will connect them in parallel. Do you think this will suffice for test running?

I initially was going to run in the engine on FAI fuel, but the manual states that 10% nitro fuel should be used so I will of course use that instead (Powermaster syn/castor blend @ 18%). I am installing OS "F" glow plugs.
Old 12-21-2006, 12:59 PM
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Flyboy Dave
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Default RE: ASP FS400AR Radial Engine

I initially was going to run in the engine on FAI fuel, but the manual states that 10% nitro
fuel should be used so I will of course use that instead (Powermaster syn/castor blend @ 18%).
I am installing OS "F" glow plugs.
I agree, Tom.....I can't wait for the video. [sm=thumbup.gif]
Old 12-21-2006, 01:14 PM
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pe reivers
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Default RE: ASP FS400AR Radial Engine

If I recall well, it ran shy of 6000 rpm with that prop.
In talks with Seidel at the Dortmuns show, he advised to use two cells in series to provide enough glow. A 5-cyl radial is not the run of the mill engine, and starting is quite a ceremony.
I used a total of 7 nicads, one for each of the upper three cylinders, and the lower cylinders two each in series. Connected them with glow plug caps, and used microswiches to apply the glow.
Old 12-22-2006, 07:58 PM
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Default RE: ASP FS400AR Radial Engine

I spent some time making the harness for the glow plug batteries. So now they are ready to go. I also got the 17/32 drill bit I needed for the prop hole and got a prop mounted to the engine. I installed the lever extensions for the choke valve and carb needle valve. Finally, I tested each of five OS Type "F" glow plugs and installed them into the engine. Something I found interesting, while turning the engine over, is the number compression 'bumps' in one revolution. Sure not used to that!


18x10 prop mounted:





Extension rods mounted:



Glow plug and battery harnesses:





Old 12-23-2006, 01:40 AM
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Flyboy Dave
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Default RE: ASP FS400AR Radial Engine

....lookin' good, Tom.....you do good work.
Old 12-23-2006, 02:01 AM
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Kmot
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Default RE: ASP FS400AR Radial Engine

Thank you, sir!
Old 12-23-2006, 06:15 AM
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pe reivers
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Default RE: ASP FS400AR Radial Engine

Something I found interesting, while turning the engine over, is the number compression 'bumps' in one revolution. Sure not used to that!
IIRC, There is a compression stroke on alternating cylinders. That is due to the camshaft drum that counter rotates at 1/4 engine speed, and it also is the reason that radials must have an odd number of cylinders.
Old 12-23-2006, 05:26 PM
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Default RE: ASP FS400AR Radial Engine


ORIGINAL: pe reivers

I used a total of 7 nicads, one for each of the upper three cylinders, and the lower cylinders two each in series. (My emphasis)
Pe: I respect your opinion and knowledge completely. However, I believe this is a mistake, or misunderstanding. Connecting two cells in series will over volt the glow plugs and burn them out instantly. I have done this by accident before, and know it to be true. In desperation, becuase you said it is so, I connected two cells in series today and instantly destroyed five brand new OS "F" glow plugs.

-Tom
Old 12-23-2006, 06:05 PM
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Kmot
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Default RE: ASP FS400AR Radial Engine

Oh Lord, this engine makes Glorious Music!!

It is everything I hoped it would be. The sound of the engine running is fantastic!

I learned some very interesting things about OS "F" glow plugs today. They demand a lot of current! I had two brand new dry cells connected in parallel and it was enough to get the engine to light off, but not sustain running. It would start, and stop quickly. I played around with the carb setting, choked and added more fuel, etc. The best I could get was a few seconds of runtime. Out of desperation, and because Pe said it was what he did, I connected two cells together for more voltage and instantly blew the five OS plugs.

I used what I had on hand, and that is Tower Hobbies two-stroke glow plugs. They are significantly shorter than the OS plugs in size. Anyway, I installed them and used the battery as normal on only 1.5V and hit the prop with the starter and it fired immediately and continued to run for the entire tank of fuel, including shutting off and restarting as desired. Two-Stroke Glow Plugs!! [X(]

This engine (with these plugs) starts easily and runs sweetly for a brand new motor. And the sound..........oh the sound!! [sm=thumbup.gif][sm=thumbup.gif][sm=thumbup.gif]

I was smiling so hard my face cracked!!

I have video! I will edit it and upload it tonight or tomorrow so everyone can hear this engine run.



Old 12-23-2006, 06:50 PM
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pe reivers
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Default RE: ASP FS400AR Radial Engine

They demand a lot of current! I had two brand new dry cells connected in parallel and it was enough to get the engine to light off, but not sustain running. It would start, and stop quickly. I played around with the carb setting, choked and added more fuel, etc. The best I could get was a few seconds of runtime. Out of desperation, and because Pe said it was what he did, I connected two cells together for more voltage and instantly blew the five OS plugs.
Two NiCad's or Dry cells? The NiCad have a substantial lower voltage, but also have a very low internal resistance.
Old 12-23-2006, 07:15 PM
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Default RE: ASP FS400AR Radial Engine

I have been reading along with much intrest. Very cool. I was wondering if you could hook one battery to the botttom cylinders because they will pool fuel a bit more and the three top on the other battery because they will clear easer, and that way it would lower the overall resistance to each battery but be strng enough to start.

Tom
Old 12-23-2006, 07:33 PM
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Default RE: ASP FS400AR Radial Engine

Kmot-
Really cool engine and very enjoyable thread about the radial! Excellent pictures too! Perhaps I missed it along the way, but what plane do you plan to put this in???

Also, who handles the 5 cyl radial from Magnum??? Can't seem to find them for sale......
Old 12-23-2006, 08:54 PM
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Default RE: ASP FS400AR Radial Engine

The 2 dry cells in series =3.0 volts .The nicads are 1.2 volts thus =2.4 volts. The 3.0 volts will blow the plugs every time. I would use a 2.0 volt lead acid rechargeable battery. Hawker energy makes them in 2.5 and 5Ah sizes that I have used for years. The 5Ah cell would light the pluges for close to an hour. I would put a switch in the circuit and then you could turn it off once the engine is running to help tune it. If you drop a cylinder turn the plugs back on it will fire right back up. The high speed needle is easy to tune with all the plugs lit. The low speed is harder to set and you will get a better idea of which way to go with the plugs off at mid range and high idle. I found it best to keep the plugs lit at idle about 2000 rpm. Lean the low end out as much as possible Good luck I really like mine.
Old 12-23-2006, 09:08 PM
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Default RE: ASP FS400AR Radial Engine

Pe: I knew I must have misunderstood something. My apologies...

Okay fella's, no 15 second teasers here! These are 4.5 minute and 6 minute long videos.

Part 1

Part 2
Old 12-23-2006, 09:44 PM
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Default RE: ASP FS400AR Radial Engine

Sounds sweeeeeet. It will run better without the glow driver when you get to putting the right length plugs back into it.
I noticed the rocker cover flopping about in the wind and was wondering why.............just before you put your thumb on it.
Old 12-24-2006, 10:01 AM
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Default RE: ASP FS400AR Radial Engine

Fantasitc Kmot.
Thank you so much for the pictures, and videos. Just what we need to see

I was going to buy one of these ASP`s too, but then i found this video with the moki 250 gas radial in the Yak-11.
http://www.mnbigbirds.com/images/Vid...lips/yak11.wmv

Ofcourse it cost about 4 times as much as the ASP, but im selling stuff to raise funds for it
Im hooked on the radial sound!

[8D]
Old 12-24-2006, 10:10 AM
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Default RE: ASP FS400AR Radial Engine

ohh, dont get discouriged about these pics, but I found them in a german forum.
This is how the inside of his ASP-400 looked like after half an hour of running.

I guess he was unlucky, and got a lemon. [:@]
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Old 12-24-2006, 10:38 AM
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wiz310
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Default RE: ASP FS400AR Radial Engine

Strewth, that would be enough to make you wanna cry. [&o]
looks like the e clip has come off the crank pin and it self destructed.
Old 12-24-2006, 11:34 AM
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Default RE: ASP FS400AR Radial Engine

Yes but to put 2 batteries in a plane that can't be recharged? Take them out and put new ones in? A pain in the behind. I have a 1/3 scale Pup that I want to put mine in but to start it AND be able to recharge it, thats the question.
Old 12-24-2006, 12:07 PM
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Default RE: ASP FS400AR Radial Engine

SJN: Wow, that really stinks! I would be p-o'd and devastated all at the same time! [:@]

jeffEE: These large batteries are only for bench running. When mounted in a model, there are many other choices that can be made and of course you would use rechargeable batteries.

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