submikester

My Feedback: (6)

Intellectual property law suits are nothing new, I am surprised that OS has not gone after Magnum over it to be honest. They're darned near clones except for the carbs (which seems to be the most important part).

Now, OS has had competition for quite some time from China and been able to hold on to their business but they have all but lost me. I have some rather old OS engines and have had them for years but for a while now I have been weary to buy new engines from them due to cost. Same goes for Saito - I don't buy them because they cost to much. Instead I buy Magnums and have for many years in fact. But, when push comes to shove I will buy an OS if the funds allow it. OS engines however have not been getting any less expensive so...they have priced themselves out of my reach for now at least. Late in '06 I bought an OS 70 Surpass II and I really can't say enough good things about that engine and would love to buy another but according to Tower it's been discontinued. Now I know I'm sure I could find a few out there in the Hobby stores and certainly on evilbay but I think I'll just buy the Magnum 70 at $150. I know it will run well though not as well out of the box as the OS and I'm more interested in seeing the difference between the two (performance wise) than paying an extra $75 for the OS.

Their new engines, the 56a and 81a look really nice but they don't look better than what YS has and if I'm going to spend that kind of money - I'll buy the YS.

As I see it OS has to make a choice between the every day bread and butter modeler who wants a higher quality engine (than the Chinese alternative) and is willing to pay a FEW dollars more for it - or go after the YS crowd by making engines that compete with a price that is lower (at least to start). If they continue on the path they are on it is likely they will fall into the boutique category of engine makers - one that YS has worked itself out of in recent years. With the proliferation of electrics and substantially cheaper Chinese alternatives I really think they need to evaluate their strategy. Modelers are fickle probably 50% don't really care what they spend and the other 50% do.

At this point it is unlikely that I will buy another OS unless their prices come down. I really liked supporting them, when you buy Chinese you're supporting a less fair trade arrangement than when you buy from someone like Japan. International Trade is rarely 'fair' but trade with China is quite unfair in that they simply do not have the 'rules' in place for things like labor, environmental protection and quality control you are likely to get from Japan. This is a broad statement but we can take an example in chrome plating, chrome is environmentally unfriendly which is likely why OS has moved to Nickel plating but because Magnums are made in China - where the rules are less - they still use the higher quality Chrome plating.

Like I said, international trade is rarely fair. I supported OS for a long time but for now Magnum has my dollars.

Now for some GMS content since this is a GMS thread...I have a 47 I have never ever been able to get to run right. I redrilled the intake nipple as suggested but it did not change anything. If I had bought it I would have sent it back for a refund but I won it in an auction. I gave up on it before I was finished fiddling with it but the experience has soured me on the line - I will never buy another GMS engine ever. I don't like fiddling - I like engines that work out of the box. If I wanted to fiddle I would make my own.

I'll give the GMS a second chance sooner or later....

asmund

I think OS has gone with nickel only to make more money (cheaper material and process)
Many other engine makers beside those "environmentally unfriendly" Magnums also use real chrome you know
MVVS, Enya and even your very own US made Fox, Nelson and Jetts and many more actually use chrome for the reason that it makes the best engines[8D] I don`t think our small toy engines has anything to do with the environment, just a piss in the ocean.

submikester

My Feedback: (6)

It's a fact that it costs more to use materials that are hazardous and Japan has some very strict rules and China doesn't.

So, as much as it costs to use Nickel in Japan it may still cost less to use Chrome in China but I don't have the numbers - it's just a guess on my part.

Also, not to defend it too much it was just an example that I thought would be understood by all since it appears to be common knowledge to those who know engines. Yes, other non-Chinese manufacturers use Chrome but most of them are far and away better than OS engines and cost much more as well. I think OS is over priced, I know a lot of folks thing OS is over priced but they will charge what the market will bear. It really is simple capitalism.

asmund

Both Webra and Thunder Tiger also use nickel as plating material in their twostrokes. The only difference between them and OS is that Webra and TT is about 100% successful in doing this, no peeling. This is not the case with OS as we all have come to know.
OS overpriced? I fully agree.
I don`t disagree with you on anything other than that I don`t think OS is trying to save the earth by going nickel, but rather to make a few more bucks

blw

My Feedback: (3)

I have forgotten the source, but it was reported somewhere that the waste disposal from the chroming process is the problem. Japan put heavy tax penalties on companies that use the chrome process. I guess Saito either pays or has it done out of country if this is true.

submikester

My Feedback: (6)

I don't think they are trying to save the planet by not using Chrome, I think they are not willing to spend the money required to use the material in Japan. They do not however pass those savings on to the buyer of course...

alcarafa

Anyway using chrome, nickel or else for plating there is one sure thing, just wait and you'll see GMS engines are history.

Oly

I hope OS makes money on the engines they sell us. If they don't, we won't have engines to fly our planes with. Is OS overpriced? I don't think so because my OS engines always run and fly my planes. This is worth paying more for them. To me...

Ya gets what ya pays for.

Oly

Oly

Why will the market bear their (OS) prices, if they are over priced? This makes no sense to me, unless they are actually worth the price they charge?

Oly

liquid_TR

Asmund, please add the variable the number of OS engines sold for a webra or a TT, worldwide.. Then do the math. Every mfg of anything on the planet had, have and will have a bad series of production. No company is perfect, no matter how advanced their production line is. As for me, Ive used OS engines (both chrome & nickel) for 15 years and never had a bad one.

1) Is chrome plating adding a substential performance to the small ringless model engine??
2) Is it affecting the price of an engine?
3) Do I care If my engines piston & sleeve set lives more than 2 years?
------------
Total= NO..

asmund

Just so everybody knows, OS IS using real chrome in their high end buggy engines like the 21 v-spec and the new 28 truggy engine. These engines are no more expensive than other comparable European engines. Since it is ok for OS to use chrome when it comes to serious competition car engines, then why can`t they use chrome in the rest of their engines??????

asmund

Of course I don`t have the numbers, but I feel pretty confident that Webra and TT have sold engines by the thens of thousands and I have never, not even once read about a peeled one in these or other forums........ you do the math
I have no idea how many peelers from OS I have read about, it happends to LA,FX and also AX. The OS 30 VG monstertruck engine (also nickel) is reported to only last 3-4 gallons before the compression is gone, lots of info on this one in the monster truck forums)
And YES I have also seen a peeled one with my own eyes, it was an LA 40. It woun`t happen to me because I stay away from nickel OS engines, but I have nothing against the ringed ones

bigedmustafa

My Feedback: (2)

How did we get from GMS engine and parts availability to another "O.S. peeling liners" discussion?

asmund

Did I contribute to that??[sm=red_smile.gif]
It`s so easy to get carried away.

Iflyglow

My Feedback: (79)

Submikester,
The YS .63 is available for 239.00 from Central Hobbies. For $9.00 bucks more than the OS .81, you can get a YS 1.10S from Central Hobbies.
The best place to BUY YS's in this country has allways been Central Hobbies, since they are the largest dealer of YS's in US, and are much cheaper than other sources.

http://www.centralhobbies.com


Back to the Topic at hand though. I hope the Tower .75 is not gone for good, it is one of my all time favorite engines, and It would make a financial dent in the pocket book if people in need of a .75 would be forced to buy an over priced OS .75 AX.[:@]

asmund

There`s also this one: http://www.elefun.no/elefun4/aspx/pr...tegoriID=10000

No burning in the pocket book

submikester

My Feedback: (6)

I'm aware of the YS prices and at that price a 63 is looking real good...

I think my comment about what the market will bear was misunderstood.

A supplier can only charge a price that the customers are willing to pay, if OS engine prices are too high they will sell fewer of them. If they sell so few that they don't make a profit then the price they are charging is more than the market will bear and to become profitable they need to lower their prices.

Simple high school economics.

wwskinn3

I have been trying to buy a GMS Engine from Tower since November. I have always used OS in the past but their new "Remote Needle Valve" is a pain for several reasons. I have not been able to find a carb to replace the one that comes with the .25FX.

Seems GMS offers their .25 and .32 with a choice of remote or not. This is why I've been trying to switch to GMS. OS is losing a lot of business with their new "Remote Needle Valve". While it is true that some people prefer it; seems there are more that do not like it. I for one will not buy another OS Engine that requries me to use a Remote Needle Valve. Seems that they either make your engine run too rich or too lean. It is simply too far away from the carb to fine tune it, not to mention the problems with fueling it.

Does anyone know if the GMS carb will fit the OS .25 FX?

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

I got rid of all of my GMS and SK engines a while back. No, I'm not anti-Chinese engines, I still have lots of Sanye produced engines.

It wasn't because the afore mentioned engines were "bad". It was because I realized that there was no way that I was ever going to get to run, much less fly, all of these engines, plus I wanted to buy a few other engines that I have always wanted. I put the money from the GMS and SK sales toward them.

I do have one Tower sold NIB GMS .47 engine left that I am considering keeping. But not sure yet. I remember a few years ago when the .47 was introduced. Everyone was exclaiming how powerful it was. I bought it to put on the front of my Global .40 sized Delta wing ARF, thinking that its howling nature should propel that model very well. Since then I've picked up what are alleged to be even stronger engines in the .50 class that would fly it faster, without costing much more money than the original purchase price of the GMS .47 (thanks PeakModel's ASP .52).

Frankly, Tower's behavior has been disturbing me lately. I would not want to see them disappear from the marketing scene. However, they are not the same Tower that once provided the supplies for we modelers. I can't help but feel that they have drifted too far from their original mission of providing modeler's brand name products at the lowest possible prices. I would like to see them retarget and once again provide us with non housebrand INFERIOR QUALITY PRODUCTS. I don't want cloned products. I want the real thing. And, I want OS Engine prices to go back to where they were many years ago, but adjusted for inflation. I bought my first Webra and Saito engines from Tower. Ah, the good old days...<G>


Ed Cregger

bigedmustafa

My Feedback: (2)

I still haven't heard one shred of evidence that the temporary shortage of GMS, Tower Hobbies, and Super Tigre engines and parts is due to anything other than the fact that the GMS factory in China has been converted over to manufacturing Olympic souveiners covered with lead paint.

GMS, Tower Hobbies, and Super Tigre engines will all be readily back in stock within the next few months.

ianwynne

Hello Bigedmustafa:

The Olympics are in August, however, I agree with you. I think the shortage of products from China is more to do with the Olympics and perhaps recent heavy snow fails rather than a law suit.

Bye, Ian

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

Whatever it is . . . . its been going on for 6 mos and shows no sign of improvement for now they still have the expected delivery dates way out there.

aerobear

My Feedback: (4)

Mine ran lousy too. It was leaking air through the front bearing. I could put my finger over the carb and it
would keep running. Replaced the front bearing with one with rubber seals on both sides and now it runs
perfect. It needs to have rubber SEALS not just a shielded bearing.

I got both front and rear bearing for $5.68 including shipping.

Front bearing trade number is 698, rear is 6902. You want something with 2RS in the part number
which means it has two rubber seals. I got these.

[link=http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&item=260107958248&_trksid=p3984.cWON.m313.lVI]front bearing[/link]
[link=http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWNX%3AIT&viewitem=&item=260086320086&_trksid=p3984.cWON.m313.lVI]rear bearing[/link]

You can pry the seals of the rear bearing if you want. Leave the seals on the front one.

DarZeelon

Quote:

ORIGINAL: aerobear

...It needs to have rubber SEALS not just a shielded bearing.

Bear,


This invariably means the fit of the crankshaft in the crankcase is lousy...

The front rotary valve in all engine, besides being the primary intake control, must seal the inside of the engine.
To seal means; no air should be leaking in between the crankcase and the crankshaft and very little oil should leak out.

The precision crankshaft and crankcase-bore machining, together with the presence of lubricant in this location, should take care of it.

What should have been done is filing a warranty claim...

What you did may have solved the air leak, but it is like pain-killer to a cancer patient...
You no longer feel the symptom, but the problem is still there...


Many engines, namely Webra, Moki and others use no seal (or shield) at all in the front bearing, but no air leaks in and no oil leaks out.

The rear bearing, if the original was open, so should any replacement.
Oil on the crankshaft is an essential part of the front rotary valve seal.

Using a sealed rear bearing would compromise that seal, so this bearing must be open.

aerobear

My Feedback: (4)

Dar,

I agree with everything you said and a warranty claim may be the best option for submikester.

My engine was purchased and then sat in the box for years and so was well past the warranty.
If submikester is my situation he now has a cheap and easy option to get his engine running.

I did remove the seals on the rear bearing.