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OS Engine Prices - Then and Now

Old 03-18-2010, 02:16 PM
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landeck
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Default OS Engine Prices - Then and Now

I have been wondering about OS engine prices. Looking in my engine inventory, I found that some of the boxes for engines I bought back in the mid/late 80's still had their price tags on them. Here is what I found:

OS .46 SF ringed $131.99, TH OS .46 AX $139.98 as of today, $119.98 with Super Saver membership

OS .61 SF ABC $174.50, on sale $169.99, TH OS .61 FX 189.99 as of today, $164.99 with Super Saver membership

Considering 20+ years of inflation, it looks like OS prices have actually gone down over the years![:-]

Comments?

Bruce
Old 03-18-2010, 04:30 PM
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gunneredwards
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Default RE: OS Engine Prices - Then and Now

I think they are still making some of the best products out there... I agree that the prices are about the same, I guess they are finding cheaper ways to manufacture their products.
dan
Old 03-18-2010, 04:48 PM
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Default RE: OS Engine Prices - Then and Now

There's a lot of difference in how a FSR was made and the current AX.


Old 03-18-2010, 06:26 PM
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Default RE: OS Engine Prices - Then and Now


ORIGINAL: w8ye

There's a lot of difference in how a FSR was made and the current AX.


Yes, I would guess that the use of computer controlled machining and better materials has cut costs and increased quality. It looks like we, the end user, have benefited! I have been using OS engines for over 35 years and the cost/performance of those engines has been outstanding and improving. I also fly Fox, Enya, and lately Magnum and I feel that the quality we are now getting for the price payed is better than ever. Then again looking at the old engines, e.g. McCoy, if they lasted a full flying season I thought I was doing great.[:@]

Bruce
Old 03-19-2010, 06:09 PM
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Flyer95
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Default RE: OS Engine Prices - Then and Now

Yes, computerized manufacturing, more competition, but also a much bigger market and volumes helps to keep the engine prices down. The entire hobby in general is much more affordable for anyone today than it was for 30years ago.
Old 03-22-2010, 08:58 AM
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Default RE: OS Engine Prices - Then and Now


ORIGINAL: Flyer95

Yes, computerized manufacturing, more competition, but also a much bigger market and volumes helps to keep the engine prices down. The entire hobby in general is much more affordable for anyone today than it was for 30years ago.
Yep....my first R/C system was $300.00 in 1969, which is about $1,700.00 in today's dollars if you use the Consumer Price Index.

Old 03-22-2010, 09:25 AM
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Default RE: OS Engine Prices - Then and Now

Bax, my first radio, a Kraft 7 Channel Series '73 system, cost me $400+ in 1973. No servo reversing, no adjustable end points, no memory, no mixes, etc., it was a bare basic system yet was considered a top radio in its day. A couple of months ago I bought a Futaba 8FG Fasst system for $419.97 with super saver membership. This system has everything. What you get for what you pay is much better today!

Bruce
Old 03-22-2010, 10:01 AM
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Default RE: OS Engine Prices - Then and Now

OS isn't the only one out there using CNC machinery. Thunder Tiger is and Good Ole Fox is using it as well.
Old 03-22-2010, 11:59 AM
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Default RE: OS Engine Prices - Then and Now

Indeed the prices seem to have remained very stable, quite amazing considering inflation. 
I remember equipment being very expensive in the past.
I bought a Futaba M radio, 6 channel/4 servos in 1973... it cost 175 Pounds Stirling.
A shocking amount of money back then.
Old 03-24-2010, 09:58 AM
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tripower222
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Default RE: OS Engine Prices - Then and Now

These engines have been made on cnc machines for years and years now. The bigest benifit of the modern cnc is the automation. Used to be someone had to load each part on the lathe, take it off, then to the mill, load it, take it off for each piece. Likely multiple pieces at a time, but still had to touch each one multiple times. Now you load a piece of bar stock in a lathe that has live tooling heads and it spits out finished parts. 
Old 03-24-2010, 11:41 AM
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Default RE: OS Engine Prices - Then and Now


ORIGINAL: tripower222

These engines have been made on cnc machines for years and years now. The bigest benifit of the modern cnc is the automation. Used to be someone had to load each part on the lathe, take it off, then to the mill, load it, take it off for each piece. Likely multiple pieces at a time, but still had to touch each one multiple times. Now you load a piece of bar stock in a lathe that has live tooling heads and it spits out finished parts.

In the real world there prices are out of this world, considering that they have been cheepened the material too along the way, not just the modern machinning that all of the other companies also use at this time. Just look at the replacement part prices. You also have to look at where the rest of the industry is for pricing in comparison. The engines from China and Taiwan are just as good and reliable as anything offered from OS for half the money. You can buy two or three TRUE ABC cylinder and piston sets, for the price of one CHEEPER AND LESS DURABLE OS ABL sleeve. There four strokes are priced way over what they get for a YS, that will Blow the doors off of any OS at a the same displacent and then some. There fancy four stroke pump engines, require that you buy the whole Regulater or Pump assy, as individual parts are not available to the general public. Also, as soon as the engine is discontinued, the parts become very hard to get. Here's an example. Try to get parts for a OS 1.08, OS 1.20 Surpass II pumped, and the list goes on and on. I know of several OS pumped 1.20's that are expensive paper weights since they need new pumps, and no parts are made for it.
You can dang near build a 20 year old YS from parts if you wanted too, and that is what parts support is about! Not to mention that the Tower .75 which is on back order for a year at a time can be had for half the cost of the .75AX and perform just as well if not better. There are people who think that OS is best thing since sliced bread, but in all reality, have to wake up and smell the coffie.
Old 03-24-2010, 03:23 PM
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Default RE: OS Engine Prices - Then and Now

I have been in the machine business and Iknow what it would take to make these engines, not to design them but to actually make each part that makes up the complete engine and to me they are all a bargin. You cant argue that the os quality generallybetter. It may not (in many peoples opinion) be worth the premium you have to pay but there is no question in quality.

Peak powerdoes not does not equate toquality there are many China engines that may have more peak power because they just manipulated port timing and supplied a noisy muffler in exchange for peak hp. But now they suffer elseware like mid range power, idle quality,and transition.

There is a reason they cost two or three times more and outsell everyone elsein the industry.
Old 03-24-2010, 04:12 PM
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Default RE: OS Engine Prices - Then and Now

it seems the older OS engines are more in demand and just as expensive ,even more in some cases.
even used
Old 03-24-2010, 08:51 PM
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Default RE: OS Engine Prices - Then and Now

I paid $40 for a used OS Max .58 R/C engine a short while back. My first rendition of this engine was bought new in 1969 for $36.95. It is not uncommon to see a NIB version selling for $60 USD today. I wish my engine was NIB, but it doesn't look to bad, other than being dirty. Yes, old OS engines are generally selling for nearly twice what they sold for originally. My .58 isn't that popular, so I paid less than twice the original price. Rumor has it that there was only one batch of OS Max .58 R/C engines ever made and that allegedly was in 1965. Anyone else know better?


Ed Cregger
Old 03-24-2010, 09:05 PM
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Default RE: OS Engine Prices - Then and Now


ORIGINAL: tripower222

I have been in the machine business and I know what it would take to make these engines, not to design them but to actually make each part that makes up the complete engine and to me they are all a bargin. You cant argue that the os quality generally better. It may not (in many peoples opinion) be worth the premium you have to pay but there is no question in quality.

Peak power does not does not equate to quality there are many China engines that may have more peak power because they just manipulated port timing and supplied a noisy muffler in exchange for peak hp. But now they suffer elseware like mid range power, idle quality, and transition.

There is a reason they cost two or three times more and outsell everyone else in the industry.

The fact that OS takes the easy way out with there cylinder dipping (Not plated), how can you say they are higer quality. If ABL technology was so great, the High dollar OS Peformance Car, Boat, and Ducted fan engines would utilize it, but they are ABC instead. I will put my Evolution .60NX, Tower Hobbies .75 (2), and Magnums (numerous) up against any equal size OS any day of the week. Then you can prove to me what justifies the difference in cost. Mine run just like OS's do. Some people could not tune an engine if they wanted too! Also, OS has been loseing market share like crazy over the last few years, and I would be willin to bet that they no longer sell the most engines.
Old 03-24-2010, 11:49 PM
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Default RE: OS Engine Prices - Then and Now


ORIGINAL: MOTORMAN37


[

The fact that OS takes the easy way out with there cylinder dipping (Not plated), how can you say they are higer quality. If ABL technology was so great, the High dollar OS Peformance Car, Boat, and Ducted fan engines would utilize it, but they are ABC instead. I will put my Evolution .60NX, Tower Hobbies .75 (2), and Magnums (numerous) up against any equal size OS any day of the week. Then you can prove to me what justifies the difference in cost. Mine run just like OS's do. Some people could not tune an engine if they wanted too! Also, OS has been loseing market share like crazy over the last few years, and I would be willin to bet that they no longer sell the most engines.
First off ABL is a plating process just like ABCnot a dipping process and it certainly isn't cheaper in fact it's like doing the ABCprocess twice. What makes it good for one motor and not another I don’t know but its not done because it cheaper, cause it's more, they feel its a superior product. If it was cheaper I can assure you the Chinese motors would be that way.

If you want a perfect example of the difference in quality take that carb off that Evo your so proud of , open the needle about 5 turns, seal off the bores with your finger tips and blow into the fuel inlet with a piece of fuel tubing. It will leak air like crazy all around the barrel due to poor tolerances. Then try it with an OS carb off of an ax and see the difference.
Id be interested in seeing your market share study and see where you got your data cause it seems a bit off. If they are loosing any share at all itslikely economical tough times causing people to tighten the purse strings and purchase the cheap motors.

Don't drinkthe "max power" Cool Aid along with so many others, thats not the only measure of a motor. If it where you could always just get a bigger one.
Old 03-25-2010, 12:01 AM
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Default RE: OS Engine Prices - Then and Now

It is the Harbor Freight tool syndrome. Why buy Craftsman, much less SnapOn, when the cheap stuff works and you dont have to worry about the loss in value if something happens. The bad thing is the other manufacturers copy the OS in general, so they are getting beat with their own designs. From my memory, my 1978 .40 FSR listed for about $110 even though they sold for about $75, so the new engine sell price is about what the old list price was.
Old 03-25-2010, 12:35 AM
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Default RE: OS Engine Prices - Then and Now

[quote]ORIGINAL: tripower222


ORIGINAL: MOTORMAN37


[

The fact that OS takes the easy way out with there cylinder dipping (Not plated), how can you say they are higer quality. If ABL technology was so great, the High dollar OS Peformance Car, Boat, and Ducted fan engines would utilize it, but they are ABC instead. I will put my Evolution .60NX, Tower Hobbies .75 (2), and Magnums (numerous) up against any equal size OS any day of the week. Then you can prove to me what justifies the difference in cost. Mine run just like OS's do. Some people could not tune an engine if they wanted too! Also, OS has been loseing market share like crazy over the last few years, and I would be willin to bet that they no longer sell the most engines.
First off ABL is a plating process just like ABC not a dipping process and it certainly isn't cheaper in fact it's like doing the ABC process twice. What makes it good for one motor and not another I don’t know but its not done because it cheaper, cause it's more, they feel its a superior product. If it was cheaper I can assure you the Chinese motors would be that way.

If you want a perfect example of the difference in quality take that carb off that Evo your so proud of , open the needle about 5 turns, seal off the bores with your finger tips and blow into the fuel inlet with a piece of fuel tubing. It will leak air like crazy all around the barrel due to poor tolerances. Then try it with an OS carb off of an ax and see the difference.
Id be interested in seeing your market share study and see where you got your data cause it seems a bit off. If they are loosing any share at all its likely economical tough times causing people to tighten the purse strings and purchase the cheap motors.

ABL is a Electroless plating, and is not the same as Nickelsil, which some think it is. How many True ABC sleeves do you see peel, like the FX's had a reputation for doing. True Hard Chrome is superior to any ABL technology any day of the week. OS engines are sport engines, and that is why they get by with the ABL. like I said earlier, there HP Engines are True Hard Chrome plated "ABC". There must be a reason, and you know as much as I do why. I do not have any problems whatsoever tuning a Chinese engine, and all the ones I run, are just as good if not better than an OS. My Tower .75 in my Shoestring has over 14 gallons through it, and starts with (1) snap of the spinner against compression after you prime it. That plane is at a dozen or so shows every year, and amazes people everytime time I fly it. I get asked many many times "What the Hell do you have in that". When I tell them a Tower .75, they are either amazed, or are OS fans and walk away.


O.S. 46VX-M ABC Marine $279.00
O.S. 18CV-RMX ABC Marine $169.98
O.S. 21XZ-R ABC On-Road $429.00
O.S. 21VZ-B V-Spec Limited ABC $349.00
O.S. 21VZ-B V-Spec Pro Modified ABC $449.00
O.S. 21VZ-B V-Spec II World Edition Off-Road ABC $529.00

AND

O.S. 21VG(P) ABL Sport $149.99

I think you better do a little more research, if you still think ABL is better. Its kinda strange that OS only uses it in there CHEAP Sport Engines. According to you OS uses the expensive process in there Cheap everyday airplane engines, and the cheaper inferior process in the High dollar engines.[sm=idea.gif] It appears as if you don't quite have your facts straight.

I will continue to run my Chinese engines, because you get the real deal, and not some fill in material to try and get buy.



Old 03-25-2010, 12:39 AM
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Iflyglow
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Default RE: OS Engine Prices - Then and Now

ORIGINAL: TFF

It is the Harbor Freight tool syndrome. Why buy Craftsman, much less SnapOn, when the cheap stuff works and you dont have to worry about the loss in value if something happens. The bad thing is the other manufacturers copy the OS in general, so they are getting beat with their own designs. From my memory, my 1978 .40 FSR listed for about $110 even though they sold for about $75, so the new engine sell price is about what the old list price was.

It is not the same syndrome at all. Why buy the over priced ABL engine, when I can get a True ABC engine, that will run just as well, and provide just as much service if not more. I also have money left over to buy a case of fuel with it.

I however do run OS plugs.
Old 03-25-2010, 04:46 AM
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Harry Lagman
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Default RE: OS Engine Prices - Then and Now

Tripower, good post. You're absolutely right - quality is much more than straight horsepower output.

Old 03-25-2010, 06:16 AM
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Default RE: OS Engine Prices - Then and Now

My perception is that OS has been trading on their name.  That's in the US, though, where the distributor is largely responsible for the marketing message and positioning.  To my mind, OS is not a premium brand.  It's meat and potatoes.  Higher end than Magnum, slightly above TT, but below many others.  The huge price increases with the Alpha line of four-strokes is pretty eye-opening, to me.
Old 03-25-2010, 06:46 AM
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Default RE: OS Engine Prices - Then and Now

I currently run OS, Fox, and Enya. They are all high quality and are in the same price range. The thing about Fox and Enya when compared to OS is that they need more of a break in to reach full power and they are a little harder to tune.

TFF, I too bought a OS 40 FSR ABC about 1980 while in Japan on business and paid 15,500 Yen, or about $75. I thought that was a great price because the ones I had priced in the USA were running $125 at that time. How do I know? Because I still have the engine in its original box with the Japanese price tag on it. As far as the current AX line of OS engines, I have four .46's, a .55, and a .75. They are all gems. I have never had one of them dead stick and the power is great.

Bruce
Old 03-25-2010, 08:32 AM
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Default RE: OS Engine Prices - Then and Now

Nice posting about price, I've noticed the same thing over the years looking at old boxes in my collection.
My opinion is if you like the OS's, then wonderful, you are getting what you paid for. I think prices have remained stable regardless of inflation because they have dialed back on the quality of the engines. They still run great and perform well like always but my newer OS's have catastrophic failure rates that were unheard of with my older FSR engines. I think 20 years from now if there are still glow engines, we're going to look back and still speak fondly of that old FSR that is still running and the FX or AX that has long been traded off, or used as a paper weight.
The prices of MVVS and Webra engines have remained fairly stable considering the years gone by, and still I look at these newer models and current production engines that run exceptionaly well and have longevity that rivals any competition.
The trend you noticed is fairly common in the RC marketplace
Old 03-25-2010, 08:36 AM
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Default RE: OS Engine Prices - Then and Now


ORIGINAL: Harry Lagman

Tripower, good post. You're absolutely right - quality is much more than straight horsepower output.

You need to be aware of the ''Motorman Bot'' used on RCU. It's an automated routine that runs as a background process on this forum, designed to detect if the words ''OS'', ''Good'', ''Price'', and ''Quality'' are used in the same post. When it detects these words, it scans the forums, extracting all the anti-OS drivel posted by people who don't have a clue and concentrates it all into a reply post.

The key thing is not to worry about these posts. When you read the contents of them, it's obvious that they are not the work of a living, breathing person with actual modelling experience.

Hariry Legman,
You are a real piece oif Brainwashed work, considering that you are taking a personal shot at me, when I am stating the truthe. Look for yourself, if you think that OS does not use True ABC in there High End Performance engines. To comment that I don't have a clue, or Modeling experience, is the blantenest lie I have ever heard. I live and breathe RC, and have for over 35 years.

I have and do own own OS's, YS's, Rossi's, Saito's, Magnum's, Thunder Tiger's, Quadra's and Zenoah's. I have never seen an OS stand much out in front of the rest yet. Why does OS use the Cheap ABL plating on there Sport engines, and True ABC on there High end engines.[sm=idea.gif] Because they are getting away with something cheaper.
To bad you are not in my area, since I was hoping you could demonstrate my lack of experience.
Old 03-25-2010, 10:07 AM
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