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Using synthetic motor oil in engines.

Old 05-05-2010, 08:04 PM
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Kiteflyer
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Default Using synthetic motor oil in engines.

I lubricated a few engines with synthetic motor oil last year and then put them away. Looking at them today, everything seems fine. However, are there any ingredients in it that may adversely effect the engines in the long term? Any thoughts?
Old 05-05-2010, 08:17 PM
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w8ye
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Default RE: Using synthetic motor oil in engines.

You want to get all the old NITRO out of the engine or it may still rust.

Dexron/Mercon is probably cheaper and does a better job of cutting into the nitro residuals
Old 05-05-2010, 10:37 PM
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Default RE: Using synthetic motor oil in engines.

I agree that you want to run it dry first. Some YS guys use MOBIL 1 0-20 for a after run oil, since it does not attack Silicone at all. I also use it in YS's and have had no trouble at all. I never have problems with rust in my engines.
Old 05-05-2010, 10:42 PM
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RVman
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Default RE: Using synthetic motor oil in engines.

I store my engines long term with a liberal amount of straight castor oil. After a while it will gum up but a soaking in fuel will loosen everything up but it sure won't rust.
Old 05-06-2010, 09:51 AM
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Default RE: Using synthetic motor oil in engines.

Hi!
Sorry!
Soaking a model engine (or any engine for that matter) in Castor oil is the worst thing you can do ...It gums up with age!!!
Much better is to use ATF oil !...Or any other oil...but not Castor oil!!
Old 05-06-2010, 10:29 AM
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Default RE: Using synthetic motor oil in engines.

jaka, I think he made that point about gumming up. His point was no rust. He acknowleged the potential for gumming up.

Cheers,

Chip
Old 05-06-2010, 12:18 PM
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Default RE: Using synthetic motor oil in engines.

Ialso use motor oil and see no problems. I do however feel it is worthwhile to clean an engine out before storage. Brakleen works well.
As an aside motor oil is designed to neutralize acidic byproducts of combustion so it will probably work well at neutralizing nitro acids in small amounts.
Old 05-06-2010, 04:35 PM
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Default RE: Using synthetic motor oil in engines.


ORIGINAL: Iflyglow

I agree that you want to run it dry first. Some YS guys use MOBIL 1 0-20 for a after run oil, since it does not attack Silicone at all. I also use it in YS's and have had no trouble at all. I never have problems with rust in my engines.
Lubricating a YS 45 was the very reason i bought a litre of Mobil 1 5W 20, the lightest weight i could find at that time, a while ago. I think i will sick with it, after cleaning the engine of all fuel. Thanks for the replies, guys.
Old 05-06-2010, 05:36 PM
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Default RE: Using synthetic motor oil in engines.


ORIGINAL: jaka

Hi!
Sorry!
Soaking a model engine (or any engine for that matter) in Castor oil is the worst thing you can do ...It gums up with age!!!
Much better is to use ATF oil !...Or any other oil...but not Castor oil!!
Who cares if it gums up with age... just soak it again with normal fuel, run it and the engine will be fine.
Old 05-06-2010, 07:17 PM
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w8ye
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Default RE: Using synthetic motor oil in engines.

I had a bottle of castor oil that sat on the back of the work bench for 40 years and nothing ever happened to it. It didn't gum up or do anything. It didn't turn rancid either. I happened to notice it the other day.
Old 05-06-2010, 08:18 PM
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Default RE: Using synthetic motor oil in engines.

I have engines, Fox 35, K&B 29 Greenhead, Cameron 19, various Cox .049, etc that were run hard and put away wet with castor based fuel (all we had then (AFAIK)) over 55 years ago. I have K&B 40s and 61s that were last run 30 years ago with the same result, no rust or gumming. They are all free of rust and turn over with just a little effort. I have no doubt that they would run fine now with all castor lube and 15% nitro (except the Cox which need higher nitro). I have never had an engine I bought new, or bought and replaced the bearings in, show any rust or bad bearings. I use a mix of lubes now, but always at least 20% of the 20% oil to fuel mix is castor.
Old 05-07-2010, 02:09 AM
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Default RE: Using synthetic motor oil in engines.

Hi!
Castor oil in non ballbearing engine is no problem...it's a nother matter putting it in a ball bearing engine ! But why use an inferior product when better products are available...! Beats me!
Old 05-07-2010, 02:49 AM
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Default RE: Using synthetic motor oil in engines.

ORIGINAL: jaka
Hi!
Castor oil in non ballbearing engine is no problem...it's a nother matter putting it in a ball bearing engine ! But why use an inferior product when better products are available...! Beats me!
Maybe it's because these super synthetic oils aren't available in some countries? The only synthetic I trust in Australia are the gas turbine oils but they're about $28/litre while Castrol M castor is $8/litre (from my supplier). A lightly gummed up engine frees very quickly with a dose of acetone followed by a dose of ATF if it's not going to be used for some time. A heavily gummed up engine from many years of storage will also free up with acetone but I prefer to dismantle them to ensure the bearings and wrist pin are totally free before running them. As I recently did with an engine I hadn't touched for more than 30 years .
Old 05-07-2010, 06:43 AM
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Default RE: Using synthetic motor oil in engines.

The K&B 40s and 61s were ball bearing engines, and still I had no problems after 30 years storage, must be the inferior fuel you are using that causes your problems with it, or maybe your engines have metalurgical problems
Old 05-07-2010, 08:24 AM
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Default RE: Using synthetic motor oil in engines.

Hi!
I thought we were speaking of storing engines....!
ATF oil (Automatic transmission oil) is wastly superior to Castor oil when storing engines.
Castor oil oxidizes!!!!
When it comes to synthetic oils for running engines the oils we have in Europe contain rust inhibitors and so our engines doesn't need and after run oil. But for longer storing times ATF oil is the way to go
Old 05-07-2010, 08:42 AM
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Default RE: Using synthetic motor oil in engines.

Hi, I agree completely, I use either ATF or air tool oil (Marvel Mystery Air Tool Oil) for both after run and storage, in my glow engines. When I was first using glow engines in 1953, there were no synthetic based glow fuels available to me, and ATF was unknown to me. Much better oils available now.

I use Coleman lantern fuel and Pennzoil at 32:1 for my small low compression G23 Gas engine and it helps save the carburetor from damage from the ethanol we have to live with in our pump gasolines, and smells alot better. I understand there is a higher octane naptha based fuel for 2 stroke cycle gas engines available in Europe, do you know if it is available in the US? Thanks.

Sincerely,

Richard
Old 05-07-2010, 09:36 AM
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Default RE: Using synthetic motor oil in engines.


ORIGINAL: jaka

Hi!
Castor oil in non ballbearing engine is no problem...it's a nother matter putting it in a ball bearing engine ! But why use an inferior product when better products are available...! Beats me!
Do you have any data that proves that? Also, superior when? Low temps only? Only rich runs? Just challenging the claim............
Old 05-07-2010, 11:26 AM
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Default RE: Using synthetic motor oil in engines.

ORIGINAL: jaka
Castor oil oxidizes!!!!
Wrong, the oil becoming rancid.. the castor oil do not affect at steel parts when we are talking about corrosion.

Castor oil in non ballbearing engine is no problem...it's a nother matter putting it in a ball bearing engine
Both plain and ball bearinged engine: Soak the engine in fuel to free up the gummed oil over night or heat up the engine with heat gun + a lot of oil to free up the gummed oil.

Old 05-07-2010, 11:48 AM
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Default RE: Using synthetic motor oil in engines.

It appears as if Kiteflyer started this thread in regards to useing Automotive Silocone oil to store a YS engine which He mentions in a later post"Lubricating a YS 45 was the very reason i bought a litre of Mobil 1 5W 20, the lightest weight i could find at that time, a while ago. I think i will sick with it, after cleaning the engine of all fuel. Thanks for the replies, guys". Since you cannot use Petrolium based oil's (Marvels, ATF, or any of the others mentioned) without really damaging the delicate Silicone o-rings and Diaphrams that the engines are composed of. Also storing a YS filled with Castor will create nothing but a Headache since the gumming up will plug the Regulator, plunger and the rest of the fuel system.
This thread probably belongs in the YS forums, since these engines are not the run of the mill engines, and you have to care for them in a different way than ordinary Model engines. Oils like the Performance specalties "Ultra Oil" and Mobil 1 0-20 are the oils recommended by YS's, and used by the Top people. YS engines (2C and 4C) are all just as delicate when it comes afterrun oil, since they use the same type of regulator parts and o-rings. Below I have attached threads of "Oil made for YS storage" along with threads dealing with afterrun oil for them.

http://www.pspec.com/details.asp?ProdID=40&category=7
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8207794/tm.htm
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8652503/tm.htm
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_6588131/tm.htm
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_6540725/tm.htm
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_6197086/tm.htm
Old 05-07-2010, 12:18 PM
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Default RE: Using synthetic motor oil in engines.


ORIGINAL: Kiteflyer

I lubricated a few engines with synthetic motor oil last year and then put them away. Looking at them today, everything seems fine. However, are there any ingredients in it that may adversely effect the engines in the long term? Any thoughts?
My 2 cents on this subject.

First, I think jakahasmistakenhow the rust problem happens.It's cause isfrom the leftovermethonalin the engine after runnning. The rusthappens due to the water absorbtionproperty of methanol, not because the castor oiloxidizes. That's just plain non-sense. If castor oiloxidizes the engines would wear out after a couple of runs. Water is the oxidizer in this case, as a matter of fact rust is oxidized steal or iron.

As far as the ingredients are concerned detergents in a oil are what you want to look out for. The best oil to use for long term storagewould be Caster, the synthetic oil usedin our RC fuelminus thenitro andalcohol,hydraulic jackoil,or a Non-Detergent motor oil, in that order,

ATF is the worst to use if the engine has silicone gaskets, eg YS, due to the high concentration of detergents that are placed in ATF Fluid. These detergents will eat away any silicone gaskets and possibly may even harden some types of rubber orings.If you ever used silicone on a transmission pan gasket you would see what the detergents do to the silicone. After a few months the silicone turns to goo.

Caster is tried and true.

The Synthetic oil in the fuel we use would work fine as long as it's just the oil. Can't use the fuel as lubricant as the alcohol, in the fuel,loves to sap moisture from the surrounding air.This is why you want to get all the fuel out of the engine right after running in theshort or long term between running it. Otherwise the water absorbed by the leftover fuel will rust any steel parts in the engine.

Hydraulic oil is ok use as it does not contain detergents.Thedetergents, foam under high pressure. Gasoline engines would not normally have this problem as the don't use methonal. Only speaking of Nitro engines here.

Non-detergent motor oil would also be ok to use. It's been a few years since I rebuilt the engine in my truck, but it used to be that you would use a non-detergent motor oil for the first 500 miles for break in then switch to a detergent motor oil after that.

Old 05-07-2010, 03:24 PM
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Default RE: Using synthetic motor oil in engines.

Jaka said it oxidizes, not that it is an oxidizer. Those are the complete opposite of each other.

Castor oil is somewhat reactive, with functional hydroxyl (-OH) groups like polyurethane and polybutadiene polyols do - meaning you can cure it with isocyanates to form balls of rubbery castor-snot, or use it as a modifier in urethane-linked polymer systems to control the cross-link density (average number of linkages between molecules) and thus the mechanical properties. "Boring".. But, it also homopolymerizes under high temps.. like in lean engines. Or with time, with the rate of reaction affected by the chemistry of the environment, temp, UV etc.








Old 05-07-2010, 03:30 PM
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Default RE: Using synthetic motor oil in engines.


ORIGINAL: MJD

Jaka said it oxidizes, not that it is an oxidizer. Those are the complete opposite of each other.

Castor oil is somewhat reactive, with functional hydroxyl (-OH) groups like polyurethane and polybutadiene polyols do - meaning you can cure it with isocyanates to form balls of rubbery castor-snot, or use it as a modifier in urethane-linked polymer systems to control the cross-link density (average number of linkages between molecules) and thus the mechanical properties. "Boring".. But, it also homopolymerizes under high temps.. like in lean engines. Or with time, with the rate of reaction affected by the chemistry of the environment, temp, UV etc.
Yet but castor put in a room temperature engine that is clean inside, tends to stay stable for years and does not change.

Old 05-07-2010, 03:58 PM
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Default RE: Using synthetic motor oil in engines.

Kiteflyer posted a question about useing Automotive Synthetic oil for perserving a YS. The use of Mobil 1 0W-20 Like I mentioned early on "Ultra Oil" from Performacne Specialties are the accepted method of pickeling a YS with out gumming up the fuel system, like will happen if you use Castor, or destroying it with Petrolium products.

From Post #8
Lubricating a YS 45 was the very reason i bought a litre of Mobil 1 5W 20, the lightest weight i could find at that time, a while ago. I think i will sick with it, after cleaning the engine of all fuel. Thanks for the replies, guys.

Old 05-07-2010, 04:07 PM
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Default RE: Using synthetic motor oil in engines.

Mobil One has changed and is now derived from petroleum base stocks?
Old 05-07-2010, 04:23 PM
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Default RE: Using synthetic motor oil in engines.

ORIGINAL: w8ye

Mobil One has changed and is now derived from petroleum base stocks?
W8YE,
That is all Rumors and speculation with no evidence or proof. I have a Quart of 0-20 that I soaked Silicone o-rings in it, and it did nothing to them. Ultra Oil then is the best choice if you are scared of the Rumors. There are many articles about it with no proof whatsoever. Some people on Bob the oil guy's forums try to state that on the 5W-20 weight only. The 0-20W which is recommended and used by many YS guys does not do anything to the engines, and I have used it for many years myself, and I have not had any problem's whatsoever, were a Petrolium oil (like marvels will screw it up in a heart beat).

Quote from Troy Neuman "Team YS flier"

Then use an all synthetic oil like the Ultra Oil from Dave Shadel at Performance Specialties or even a very small amount 3-4 drops of Mobil 1 0W-20 all synthetic oil. The oil is just put down the carb opening and the engine is slowly turned over to distribute the oil. Don't use Castor oil although it will work, it will dry out and will get gummy inside the the engine. The Mobil 1 or the Ultra oil are the best.


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