RE: TT .46 Pro problem.
 

The banana plugs seem to work OK...seen others use them dozens of times over the years w/o problems. As long as they fit snugly in the female socket, they should be fine?

I got rid of almost all the wires though, and my 6 cell packs are attached to the starter...very short current path.

Cold weather can make life a bit difficult too, for the starter and batteries. Mine can struggle a bit if the starter, batteries and engine have been sitting out in the cold for a little while. The residual oil in the engine gets quite thick.
When I fly in the winter, I try to keep everything in the back of my van so it stays warm, but that doesn't always happen.

Is everything you're dealing with indoors, at "room temperature", or are you working in a garage?

RE: TT .46 Pro problem.
 

Working in my basement, about 68°F. I havent been trying to start the engine to run it, just testing out the new-found equipment and checking the condition of the battery. I have no idea how strong the battery still is after being stored for pretty much 6 straight years. (Lead calcium battery - never seen one that was lead calcium before)

I replaced the wire/terminals going from the control panel to the battery with 14ga copper and soldered the female spades to the wires. Now the glow plug heater works far better at a much lower setting, and the starter turns the engine over decently. My fullsize battery charger says its at about 85% capacity (12.6v) so I would assume on a peaked charge it should work a little better; the question is how long will the battery last over the course of a day of use.

My buddy got a 7Ah Gel cell battery for his vexilar depth finder last fall for $25 and it lasts much longer than the lead acid battery it replaced so if loading this one down kills it, I'll get a Gel cell to replace it. I could probably fit a 9Ah - then I could go run for a week straight and have juice left over... :)

RE: TT .46 Pro problem.
 

Hey...good...sounds like things are improving [8D]

I tried using a lead - acid motorcycle battery for a while, but it didn't last long...I didn't like it.

The gel cells are quite a bit better. (I have no experience w/ the calcium one though )

A friend uses a garden tractor battery! It's heavy, but lasts a long time between charges...but his flight box will pull your shoulder out of it's socket!

I use a hand crank fuel pump now...and a glow driver made by Radio South...my box is fairly light, unless I'm carrying a full gal. of fuel.:D

RE: TT .46 Pro problem.
 

I just got really lucky on this find. My buddy was gonna just give it to me, but I told him I wouldn't take it unless he took at least 20$ for it. Since its in perfect shape and everything works (despite the questionable battery) I couldn't pass it up. I like the idea of using a sealed battery in the event the box gets tipped over, though a smaller lawn and garden battery would work quite well..

This is what I have, though some of my components look a little different. Not a bad deal, I think. My box doesnt have a rechargeable glow-driver plug like the one in the link, so I might add that in otherwise its pretty much the same.
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXL419&P=7

RE: TT .46 Pro problem.
 

That lead-calcium gel cell should work well...maybe it's a bit tired?
Don't know if cycling it a few times would help or not?

My buddies garden tractor battery is close to a car battery in size! Weighs a freekin ton combined with his home made super heavy-duty 3/4" ply field box. :eek::D
He only has to charge it about twice a season though...at least that's his excuse...
Problem is though, he's in his 80's now...and has difficulty getting it out of his car's trunk 'cause it's so heavy...so I usually "volunteer"...;)

RE: TT .46 Pro problem.
 

When it comes to 12v batteries, so long as you're not drawing too many amps, anything will work. Downside is having to lug a heavy battery around. Around here, most lawn tractor batteries are roughly 12-15Ah and weigh about 15lbs and they're not sealed like the Gel batteries though it would hold a charge much longer. I think I'll stick with the Gel battery. If this one is tired, I'll replace it. I don't think the 7.2v packs I have are going to provide enough current and a 12v Gel battery is cheaper than 2 cheap 7.2 packs. (I hate being a cheapskate sometimes)

Its good that theres a guy like you to help an older fella out. "props" to you. :)
Now if the weather would warm up again, I can get out and flog the TT a bit more and get the pipe on it.

RE: TT .46 Pro problem.
 

I have a 12v gel battery as well and lately I feel it's not up to the task. I need more power for my torque master 90. I'm getting tired of ruining my spinners by putting those circular burn marks in them. I've been getting a running start with the starter and jamming it on the spinner just to get engine to turn over. A more powerful setup would be nice. The engines I have problems turning over are 60 size 2 strokes and 65 through 90 size 4 strokes.

RE: TT .46 Pro problem.
 

After doing a little searching around I found a few things out. Lead calcium is used in sealed/maint. free batteries. The construction tends to not self discharge nearly as quickly as a lead acid counterpart. These batteries don't take to overcharging very well; also discharging beyond 50% capacity repeatedly shortens life also.

Given they hold a charge much longer, I think my battery is probably going to be in decent shape since it was kept charged (at least the last 3 years anyway). I think the starter itself is underpowered. The Torqmaster 90 is rated at 310oz-in torque (at stall) and 11.6A loaded. Does it really take that much torque to turn a 2-stroke over? Perhaps more is better.

RE: TT .46 Pro problem.
 

Okay. Inverted TT .46 pro episode II.

Got the electric starter working, engine starts and runs much easier now.... BUT won't stay running. If I keep the throttle over 1/3 open, it runs pretty decent. I got 13,500rpm on APC 10x6 and 12% nitro and stock muffler. It can do better - I had 14200rpm on 10% nitro 10x6 MAS stock muffler right side up after breakin.

I have a 8oz tank 6" below engine, and a 2oz hopper tank behind the engine. I started out with just the main tank connected to the carb and pressure line to the muffler. Runs in this fashion at 3/4-WOT okay but will not stay running below 1/2 throttle. I connected the hopper tank - main tank output to top (pressure fitting) of hopper, pressure line from muffler to pressure fitting on main tank with hopper output to the carburetor. Runs okay 1/3-WOT, but stalls out at low RPMs. I added a checkvalve to pressure line to main tank, which seems to push too much fuel into hopper tank, but engine still stalls in low rpms. After engine stalls, fuel pukes from the carburetor with checkvalve in place.

With each scenario, the engine would restart if I plugged the exhaust for a moment and reprimed it. I was starting it at 1/4 throttle or so, and ran it to WOT but bringing it back down to set the low speed mixture would cause a stall after a few seconds. RPMs do not sag once glow driver is removed, and I'm not using a fuel filter.

I'm out of ideas... The hopper tank was recommended by Darryl Cady, which seems to be working however it seems to me the engine is running out of fuel at low RPMS even though the hopper tank has stayed full the whole time. The hopper centerline is about 1/4"-3/8" below spraybar which I was told shouldn't be a big deal.. Any thoughts?

RE: TT .46 Pro problem.
 

When it quits, does it just smoothly sag like it's lean, or does it load up and quit?

RE: TT .46 Pro problem.
 

It acts like its running out of fuel. I have to reprime it to get it to fire. I looked at the hopper tank arrangement a little closer. The center of the hopper is about 1/2" lower than the spraybar. Here's my test stand. The very top of the hopper tank isnt visible - but you see about 95% of it in the picture below.
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...IMG_0139-2.jpg

RE: TT .46 Pro problem.
 

Some things I forgot to mention - the aluminum "sawhorse" mount is what is going on the boat. the oak and plywood stuff its mounted to is not. The position of the hopper tank is pretty much limited to that spot its in as I dont want it on top nor will it work down with the other tank(??)... The centerline doesnt change much with the tank rotated flat (90° from current position). If I ran the hopper on top of the mount and the engine upright, not only would the tank be too low, but I worry about having the engine that high with something thats supposed to go fast.

<whew!> Now to get this thing working right. I dont want to have to pump/regulate it because then I'd probably need a pump carb too and my money tree is about dead. I know if the tank is too high it'll flood out, and being that mines a bit low, its running lean/out of fuel. Now the thing that I question is, the fuel tank was lower than the spraybar on the test stand right side up and it broke in fine, and ran out better than I expected with a crappy prop. Is my plumbing just jacked up?

(I'm pulling my hair out on this one...)

RE: TT .46 Pro problem.
 

Ideally, you want the fuel tank as close as possible level with the spray bar. Since you can't do that maybe you could add a one way check valve from the muffler to the tank. This should pressurize the tank at WOT and residual pressure would keep the fuel flowing at idle.

RE: TT .46 Pro problem.
 

What brand of tank is your hopper tank? The hopper tank is up-side down now, correct? If so, the fuel now comes into what normally would be the vent.

Just thinking here...might not be right, but...
If you are putting fuel into the hopper tank thru that lower nipple...and sucking it out thru the clunk...
Hmm...just thinking if maybe you put a 3rd, vent tube to vent the hopper tank to the atmosphere? The engine might be trying to draw fuel, but there's an imbalance somewhere?

The muffler pressure line is pressurizing the lower, main tank, right? So the fuel is "pumped" up from there to the hopper...but it might not be replenishing the hopper tank fast enough? After it runs for a while, the tank develops a negative pressure, perhaps?


(I'm at least temporarily ignoring the check valve for the time being )

RE: TT .46 Pro problem.
 

As stated in my above post, I did try the checkvalve. The problem with the checkvalve is it doesnt open and close smoothly when the engine is running. It opens in bursts of pressure which (I think) is over-pressurizing the main tank. When the engine stalls, fuel pukes out of the carb in a steady stream until pressure in front of the checkvalve is released. That and it didnt seem to make a difference in how the engine ran. It stalled out with the C.V installed as well as with it out. I suppose a possibility is the low speed mixture was leaned too far.. It was only 31°F yesterday and the high today is 28°F.

I replaced all of the fuel lines with stiffer stuff just in case there was an air leak. (I didnt note any yesterday) I shortened all of the fuel lines so they are "just" long enough. I reset the main needle to 2 turns and opened the idle needle up 1/2 turn from the 3/4 turn it was to start with. I figure this will be richer than yesterday and should get it running and I'll have to mess around some more.

When I ran this thing on the stand for break-in this summer, the tank was lower than the spraybar by the about the same amount as the hopper is today and it ran very well. Perhaps its more finicky being inverted. I couldn't find a smaller 1oz tank to use for the hopper... I think a smaller tank in the location I chose would probably be okay. There is plenty of fuel getting to the hopper tank, it just needs to draw better. Now that I am thinking about it, I might suspect the idle needle of being too lean.... <ponders>

RE: TT .46 Pro problem.
 

Sullivan used to make a 1 oz. Slant Style tank...haven't checked lately though.

Edit: yeah, they still do
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXFU46&P=7

RE: TT .46 Pro problem.
 

Darryl told me to use a Hayes tank. Bubble-less tanks won't do me any good, he said.
The first time I ran this engine inverted, I had the hopper oriented input (vent) on the bottom being connected to the clunk of the main tank and clunk line of hopper to carb, muffler pressure to vent of main tank.

Yesterday before I ran it I flipped the hopper so the vent was on top but connected in the same fashion. I have since flipped it back to what it was (vent on bottom/Fill port) but havent ran it today.

The main tank is filling the hopper. I originally filled the hopper 1/2 full or so and its now almost full. As I said in my very last post, I am suspecting either a lean idle needle or hopper orientation. This thing should run with where the tank is. Both tanks have a 3rd nipple but they are still plugged from the factory. Perhaps at lower RPMS there isnt hardly any fuel going to the hopper and a vacuum is forming in the hopper preventing fuel draw. My only problem with venting the hopper to atmosphere is if coming down from high rpms and there's a lot of fuel in the hopper, that it'll squirt out of the vent and make a giant mess OR if it has enough pressure to over-fill the hopper tank at low rpms and squirting all over to make a mess......

RE: TT .46 Pro problem.
 

My hobby shop didnt have any hayes 1 ounce tanks, so I got a 2oz regular #080. Also I didnt want to use sullivan tanks - the one on my other airboat leaks no matter how tight you get the stopper. The Hayes dont leak a drop. I want to rectify the problem without using sullivan tanks if I can at all help it.

RE: TT .46 Pro problem.
 

Gotcha...

Didn't think about the fuel over flow problem until I thought about it for a minute or so after posting...then reading your post confirmed it...:D What a mess that would be...and wasteful of fuel.


I've been hoping we'd get a few more guys inputting their ideas...

I'm kinda scratching my head a bit here too...

RE: TT .46 Pro problem.
 

Yeah, me too. I might mess around with it outside some more and see if I can get any better results. I'll try to mount my tach to something and take a video if it keeps doing the same thing. Seeing what its doing is a lot easier to diagnose than how it can be described.

RE: TT .46 Pro problem.
 

Sounds like a good idea...video w/ sound will help diagnose.

I forget...did you say you bought a Perry V-30 pump, or no?

RE: TT .46 Pro problem.
 

No. I was going on the advice from Darryl that I didnt need it.

RE: TT .46 Pro problem.
 

Well....

Got an idea...

If you get fed-up and feel like you want to try a V-30...I have one NIB that I could send ya.
If it works, you could send me another one back as a replacement...
If it doesn't help, just send mine back...?

Maybe give Darryl another call first?;)
("hey Darryl..it ain't workin'...what's goin' on!?" )

RE: TT .46 Pro problem.
 

Thanks for the kind gesture. Perhaps I might take you up on that. I'm going to go run it for a little bit and see what happens. I switched a couple things around, so I'll give it a whirl. I strapped the tach on and I have my digital camera handy so I'll get a snippet and post it and go from there.

If after this attempt it runs the same, I'll give Darryl a call back and see what he has to say. Either way, I'll post a video in a bit.

Thanks, Proptop. I appreciate your valiant efforts. I'm Tim, if it matters.

RE: TT .46 Pro problem.
 

Good luck Tim...wish I coulda been more helpful...looking fwd to the video...maybe after we see / hear what's happening, we can get a few more "idea men" interested to help figure out what's going on.
Proptop-Tom