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Black piston?
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Hey I have a TT pro 46 and I opened it up and it looks like this! Is that ok, is that a sign the engine is gone?
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RE: Black piston?
What fuel have you been using? She looks like she's been run hard and long using castor based fuel.
Bill Vail |
RE: Black piston?
Its not my engine someone gave it to me. Do you think its worth putting in to a new plane or should I buy a new engine?
Tony |
RE: Black piston?
If you still have a decent pinch and the piston/sleeve/rod look and feel in good shape and the bearings are not shot, then run it!
just seeing that the engine has had a life with plenty of castor oil tells me that it may be in better condition mechanically than is appears to be visualy. |
RE: Black piston?
Will it stil run strong?
Tony |
RE: Black piston?
It's quite an old TT46 (note the straight spraybar) and the fact that it's got a good amount of carbon on top of the piston is a *good* sign-- the owner obviously used castor in their fuel so chances are it's still in reasonable condition.
If it's got compression, it'll make good power -- these engines are incredibly tough and it takes a lot to stuff them up :-) |
RE: Black piston?
Nah, it's no good. Just send it to me for proper disposal..... :)
Like the others have said, try it. It may surprise you. |
RE: Black piston?
Soak it in automatic trans fluid and put it back together and see if it will run. If it runs keep running it. It it doesn't junk it and buy a Super Tiger 51 or buy another Thunder Tiger. Forget buying parts as they are too expensive and by the time you replace the bearings the piston or something else will go out. If you replace both the bearings and piston it is too close to the cost of a new engine.
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RE: Black piston?
ORIGINAL: Fuelman just seeing that the engine has had a life with plenty of castor oil tells me that it may be in better condition mechanically than is appears to be visualy. Jens Eirik |
RE: Black piston?
ORIGINAL: Fuelman If you still have a decent pinch and the piston/sleeve/rod look and feel in good shape and the bearings are not shot, then run it! just seeing that the engine has had a life with plenty of castor oil tells me that it may be in better condition mechanically than is appears to be visualy. -------------- Ditto what Fuelman said. It might not hurt to give it an antifreeze bath. Once the grime is gone, it is much easier to be objective about the engine's state of health. Ed Cregger |
RE: Black piston?
If the previous owner had used a quality synthetic oil based fuel the engine would be like new , inside and out.
I'm sorry but after running all my engines on this fuel http://www.westonuk.co.uk/index_045.htm for the past 5 years I just don't subscribe to the castor oil is best debate. The engine might be ok for a hack model, but it looks like it's done its best for its previous owner. |
RE: Black piston?
A coating of castor doesn't make an engine 'done' for use in only a hack model. It can be removed without too much difficulty, and you may find that the castor preserved things nicely. Synthetics *may* have kept the engine looking better, but looks aren't everything. Protection is everything.
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RE: Black piston?
Hi!
This is what a typically castor-oil-run-engine looks like after a year or more running. Nothing to worry about really but must ask...Why did you take it apart? Did it run bad or what? If you had run it on the modern synthetic oils that are available now you would not have any carbon build up at all. In Europe it is very common to use just 10-15% all synthetic oil. Castor oil is very seldom used over here. |
RE: Black piston?
From the site http://www.westonuk.co.uk/index_045.htm as this text:
...fuels contains what we believe to be the best synthetic oil... And the text from other site: P.S. I have noticed one thing over the past few years though. The people I fly with who use Prosynth seem to spend more money on bearings than I do. |
RE: Black piston?
Hej!
Jens har du prövat de moderna syntetoljorna som kom för 10-15 år sedan? Aerosave, Aerosynt 2 (nu 3), Motul Micro osv? I Sverige så är det väldigt vanligt att man kör på bara syntetolja. I Stockholmstrakten där jag bor så tror jag ingen modellflygare kör på ricinolja nuförtiden. Som tävlingsflygare i pylonracing är jag tvungen att flyga på 80/20 soppa med det beror på att reglerna föreskriver ricinolja. Hi! Jens have you tested the new syntetic oils that became available 10-15 years ago? Aerosynt 2 (now 3) aerosave and Motul Micro and lots of others. Over here in Sweden it is very common to just use syntetic oil. In the Stockholm region where I live I don't think anyone use Castor oil anymore. Being active in pylon racing I'm forced to use 80/20 Castor based fuel, but that is only due to the rules prohibit synthetic oils. |
RE: Black piston?
ORIGINAL: jaka Hi! Jens have you tested the new syntetic oils that became available 10-15 years ago? Aerosynt 2 (now 3) aerosave and Motul Micro and lots of others. Over here in Sweden it is very common to just use syntetic oil. In the Stockholm region where I live I don't think anyone use Castor oil anymore. Being active in pylon racing I'm forced to use 80/20 Castor based fuel, but that is only due to the rules prohibit synthetic oils. Jaka, are you very sure no anyone in Stockholm are using castor oil when Flyer95 who live in Stockholm wrote this: Hi Guys, I have now done the break-in for my saito 180 and it goes like a train and was very reliable out of the box, and after I leaned the idle mixture 1/2 turn it idled very reliable at 17-1800rpm . I used 25% cheap castor oil and 15% nitro so nothing fancy here for the first two tanks and then my usual 20% syntetic/ castor blend and 15% nitro. Very good compression & very easy starting engine and the vibration level is also very low . Many thanks /Amir |
RE: Black piston?
That's the kind of engine I look for at swapmeets. No castor crud--not interested.[8D]
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RE: Black piston?
Jim you called that one 100% gummy sticky great no rust a little fresh fuel a few flips off we go I picked up a PAW 19 at least ten years since last run glue city loosend up fresh fuel perfect. I now run diesel in my 4 strokes after flying plug on pull power to plug they die fine, long live castor and kero no bearings replaced yet martin
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RE: Black piston?
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ORIGINAL: i live for 3D is that a sign the engine is gone? The quick and easy way is to just put the piston to TDC (if it's still got a good pinch then make sure it doesn't lift the liner) and start scraping off the carbon. Usually most of it will just flake off with a fingernail or use a wood or plastic scraper. It's not necessary to get every tiny bit off, just get it dwon to where the crown is flat but probably still stained brown. When you're happy with how it looks then very thoroughly wash away any particles before you move the piston down, then wash again because some particles will have stuck to the liner. Clean the cylinder head as well. Carbon on top of a piston is no indication of what the engine is like, all it really does is bump up the compression a bit. The photo below shows one of my engines after about 30 hours of running on 20% castor. It was still running like new but looking a bit filthy. |
RE: Black piston?
Jaka,
Aren't you pushing those oils because you sell them? |
RE: Black piston?
ORIGINAL: Marcol If the previous owner had used a quality synthetic oil based fuel the engine would be like new , inside and out. I'm sorry but after running all my engines on this fuel http://www.westonuk.co.uk/index_045.htm for the past 5 years I just don't subscribe to the castor oil is best debate. The engine might be ok for a hack model, but it looks like it's done its best for its previous owner. ----------------- Castor varnish comes off during cleaning. Under it lies the "protected" metal. Without a protective coating of castor grime, the metal is exposed and wears away (sides of the piston - obviously). Give me castor oil every time. There is no way to determine the condition of the engine with it being that dirty. Disassemble, soak in slightly warm anti-freeze and then carefully reassemble with lots of oil. Put a new glow plug in it (recommended range) and a well balanced prop of the proper size and then give it a go. Chances are it will have many more flights left in it (unless you saw major scratches on the cylinder liner). The anti-castor movement appears to be based strictly on obsessive/compulsive "dirty feelings" (no empiracal data) and nothing more. Ed Cregger |
RE: Black piston?
Aren't you pushing those oils because you sell them? I've run model engines for 40 years. I own over 300. In the beginning there was only castor. Then there was bad synthetic and castor. Now there is good synthetic but many folks remember the bad synthetic. While I run a blend of mostly synthetics with some castor, I've had great success with all synthetics. I run some castor because of all the corrosion inhibitors I've tried, castor has been the best over time... and, because others think you have to have some castor in your fuel for it to be good fuel. If you'd like to run Duke's fuel (28% oil all castor) I think you should. It ain't right for me but that's the beauty of this hobby... If you insist on running your engine lean, castor's your ticket. The pressings of this bean will form a thick, black varnish on you engine and save you from it's misuse. If you've been in the hobby a while, I think you'll prefer synthetic. I personally don't find the engine pictured in the first post acceptable. If it was run properly and castor did that to it, that is unacceptable. If it was run improperly, synthetic probably would have protected it but if it didn't, you should learn how to run a model engine. In other words, to say that this engine was saved from destruction by castor does not excuse the fact that it was mishandled. If you are in the habit of butchering your engines, please run castor. If you are not in the habit of butchering your engines, run synthetic. Adjust opinion to taste, Bill Vail |
RE: Black piston?
By the looks of it I'd think that maybe that engine could use new bearings anyway...so...I would completely dis-assemble it and soak it in the crock pot. Scrub it good...and provided the sleeve/piston fit was worth while, put new bearings in and fly it.
After you get all the parts clean, they'll be easier to inspect for signs of excessive / unusual wear. I have one TT .46 w/ over 20 gallons through it (yep...20 gallons ) and it doesn't look anything like that...just minimal carbon build up, and v. little gunk on the outside... (Powermaster 10% sport fuel, 18% oil which is a castor/synth blend ) |
RE: Black piston?
ORIGINAL: wjvail Aren't you pushing those oils because you sell them? I've run model engines for 40 years. I own over 300. In the beginning there was only castor. Then there was bad synthetic and castor. Now there is good synthetic but many folks remember the bad synthetic. While I run a blend of mostly synthetics with some castor, I've had great success with all synthetics. I run some castor because of all the corrosion inhibitors I've tried, castor has been the best over time... and, because others think you have to have some castor in your fuel for it to be good fuel. If you'd like to run Duke's fuel (28% oil all castor) I think you should. It ain't right for me but that's the beauty of this hobby... If you insist on running your engine lean, castor's your ticket. The pressings of this bean will form a thick, black varnish on you engine and save you from it's misuse. If you've been in the hobby a while, I think you'll prefer synthetic. I personally don't find the engine pictured in the first post acceptable. If it was run properly and castor did that to it, that is unacceptable. If it was run improperly, synthetic probably would have protected it but if it didn't, you should learn how to run a model engine. In other words, to say that this engine was saved from destruction by castor does not excuse the fact that it was mishandled. If you are in the habit of butchering your engines, please run castor. If you are not in the habit of butchering your engines, run synthetic. Adjust opinion to taste, Bill Vail --------------- My apology to my buddy Bill Vail. I got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning. Heck, I couldn't even spell my own name correctly. <G> Ed Creger |
RE: Black piston?
ORIGINAL: Jim Thomerson That's the kind of engine I look for at swapmeets. No castor crud--not interested.[8D] Of course you don't. The reason car engines last like they do is partly to do with CNC manufacture but mostly because modern lubricants are far and away superior to oils of yesteryear. Especially the modern synthetics. I don't know what synthetic oil is available to you guys outside of Europe , but as Jaka indicates castor oil is losing favour in Europe. |
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