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RE: Saito 115 cam lubrication
ORIGINAL: Ernie Misner Thanks XJet. What kind of trouble could I get into by pulling the cambox cover off (Saito 82) to take a peek in there? Wreck the gasket.... or? Ernie Paul |
RE: Saito 115 cam lubrication
Saito has approached this problem in a different way on the Saito 40A R/C and C/L engines. Notice the crankcase vent in the right side of the cam box. But also notice that they have cast a boss there to have enough meat for the threads. Macs Headers makes a nipple with a flat flange on the backside and a retaining nut on the outside that would work well on the Saito 100, 115, & 125
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RE: Saito 115 cam lubrication
Dar, I agree with everything you have said here. I recently acquired my first four stroke model engine, an Enya .46. I have completely disassebled it and noted no abnormal ware on the cam lobes or tappets. There are two holes approximately 3mm in diameter in the dividing wall between the cam box and crankcase. I don't believe the camshaft drive mechanisim receives enough lubrication. I have an idea to circumvent this problem and I'll let everyone know if it works. I just have to decide which of my engines to shoose to serve as a lab rat.
Bill |
RE: Saito 115 cam lubrication
The OS four stroke engines with the sealed rear bearings have a cross drilled crankshaft from the center cavity to a point in front of the bearing for oil passage.
However on the OS 70 & 91 Surpass II and Surpass I the only difference is cadmium plating and the cross drilled hole. Therefore you need to be aware of what you have if you are mixing and matching parts |
RE: Saito 115 cam lubrication
THAT's what I'm talkin'bout!
Bill |
RE: Saito 115 cam lubrication
ORIGINAL: Ram Jet Dar, I agree with everything you have said here. I recently acquired my first four stroke model engine, an Enya .46. I have completely disassebled it and noted no abnormal ware on the cam lobes or tappets. There are two holes approximately 3mm in diameter in the dividing wall between the cam box and crankcase. I don't believe the camshaft drive mechanisim receives enough lubrication. I have an idea to circumvent this problem and I'll let everyone know if it works. I just have to decide which of my engines to shoose to serve as a lab rat. Bill Have you had a failure in that area with an Enya four-stroke? None of my Enya four-strokes have displayed a problem with camshaft/lifter/gear lubrication at all. Some of my Enya four-strokes are getting very old with many, many hours of operation logged on them. We have to remember that the oil in the crankcase is whipped into a mist that permeates the engine well, except in some cases where there is insufficient circulation. None of my Enya engines have displayed the slightest problem, but I am bad for loading up my engines, two and four-strokes, with lots of ARO just to be safe. I've even used regular motor oil for lubrication in the lower crankcase of four-strokes. You'll get some strange stains on your model when you do that, but it doesn't seem to affect the finish permanently in most cases. It even looks kind of realistic, if you know what I mean? Ed Cregger |
RE: Saito 115 cam lubrication
I had 5 Enya 46-4C apart last year or two, and 4 of the 5 showed rust in the cam box. There is no circulation there and the area is relatively enclosed with only those two small holes to let oil in or out. I'm considering adding the OS Alpha type oil passages to the one I have left. This would certainly keep oil flowing through there.
I think the positive crankcase vent system will soon be added to all model four strokes. I think it can be added to Saitos just as well. I haven't tried it yet, only because I have just a couple of them. |
RE: Saito 115 cam lubrication
You are right about the motor oil. I have had a-lot of very happy two cycle outboard motors that ran just fine on 30 wt engine oil/gas mix. Back in the 60s you would say "Two cycle oil - WHAT?" The Enyas may be OK because, at least on my .46, there are those two connecting holes between the cam box and crankcase. Upon tear down I noted the smallest little caged ball bearing assembly I have ever seen and man was it guncked-up with old castor. I cringe at the thought of having to replace it someday. I am concerned about the plain bearings on the ends of the cams though. I'd rether the crankcase breather exit the cam box and not the crankcase. There is not much to encourage the oil mist to enter the cam box.
Bill Bill |
RE: Saito 115 cam lubrication
I've got something in mind involving a Perry Pump and the PCV idea is right there in the mix.
Bill |
RE: Saito 115 cam lubrication
ORIGINAL: Ed Cregger N2ECW ORIGINAL: Ram Jet Dar, I agree with everything you have said here. I recently acquired my first four stroke model engine, an Enya .46. I have completely disassebled it and noted no abnormal ware on the cam lobes or tappets. There are two holes approximately 3mm in diameter in the dividing wall between the cam box and crankcase. I don't believe the camshaft drive mechanisim receives enough lubrication. I have an idea to circumvent this problem and I'll let everyone know if it works. I just have to decide which of my engines to shoose to serve as a lab rat. Bill Have you had a failure in that area with an Enya four-stroke? None of my Enya four-strokes have displayed a problem with camshaft/lifter/gear lubrication at all. Some of my Enya four-strokes are getting very old with many, many hours of operation logged on them. We have to remember that the oil in the crankcase is whipped into a mist that permeates the engine well, except in some cases where there is insufficient circulation. None of my Enya engines have displayed the slightest problem, but I am bad for loading up my engines, two and four-strokes, with lots of ARO just to be safe. I've even used regular motor oil for lubrication in the lower crankcase of four-strokes. You'll get some strange stains on your model when you do that, but it doesn't seem to affect the finish permanently in most cases. It even looks kind of realistic, if you know what I mean? Ed Cregger As rule i am adding oil in crankcase before use to get valve gear lubricated and after use to prevent rust. Enya are well made to last foreve so long the engine get good maintenance. |
RE: Saito 115 cam lubrication
Yes, it seems that blow by is the only thing relied upon to lubricate everything below the piston crown. I just doesn't seem too smart.
Bill |
RE: Saito 115 cam lubrication
ORIGINAL: DarZeelon I own just one such engine, which I traded for a used one with another prominent member of this forum. Despite any fear I had, this Saito .72 has so far given me no trouble at all. But from all I have read here, I think perhaps I am lucky... |
RE: Saito 115 cam lubrication
ORIGINAL: Ram Jet Yes, it seems that blow by is the only thing relied upon to lubricate everything below the piston crown. I just doesn't seem too smart. Bill See at the modern 4 stroke engines, there are breather nipple mounted near or in same zone where valve gear are placed and the oil fog will enter into the valve gear first before breather nipple. It provides safe lubrication.. Even in modern Saito engines have not always had breather nipple placed there where valve gear are in their place. Stupid that Saito engineers did not learn of other engineers of OS,Magnum etc to put the nipple in the right place .. [:o] |
RE: Saito 115 cam lubrication
Right on Motorboy. I have given thought to drilling and tapping my cam drive box to accomodate the crankcase breather nipple and plugging the factory installed nipple.
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RE: Saito 115 cam lubrication
ORIGINAL: Ram Jet Right on Motorboy. I have given thought to drilling and tapping my cam drive box to accomodate the crankcase breather nipple and plugging the factory installed nipple. |
RE: Saito 115 cam lubrication
Back about 4-5 years ago, Bill Robison and I talked a few times on the phone about some mods to the Saito cam/lifter/valvetrain lubrication "system" (or lack of same )...
It entailed filing ( with a triangular jewlers file ) 2 shallow grooves (one front, one rear ) in each of the lifter bores...maybe .005 to .010" deep to allow oil flow past the lifters. Then drilling/tapping holes (1 ea. ) in the rocker covers for a pressure fitting. The 2 could be T'd and either vented overboard, or plumbed into the intake tube, PCV style. |
RE: Saito 115 cam lubrication
ORIGINAL: proptop Back about 4-5 years ago, Bill Robison and I talked a few times on the phone about some mods to the Saito cam/lifter/valvetrain lubrication "system" (or lack of same )... It entailed filing ( with a triangular jewlers file ) 2 shallow grooves (one front, one rear ) in each of the lifter bores...maybe .005 to .010" deep to allow oil flow past the lifters. Then drilling/tapping holes (1 ea. ) in the rocker covers for a pressure fitting. The 2 could be T'd and either vented overboard, or plumbed into the intake tube, PCV style. |
RE: Saito 115 cam lubrication
Back three or four years ago, Hobbsy had an older Saito with the thick sided cam box. He put nipples on both sides of the cam box. He ran a fuel line from the rear vent to one side of the cam box so the waste oil could blow by the cam.
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RE: Saito 115 cam lubrication
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R, the danger to the Enya fourstrokes is rust in the cam area, this is easily prevented by removing the screw that holds the carb bracket to the cam box. I remove it and inject Corrosion X if I'm storing the .46 or .53 TN.
I drilled and tapped this .90 for that very purpose |
RE: Saito 115 cam lubrication
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Jim, you can see that my 2.20 has a boss in the same place but no vent there.
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RE: Saito 115 cam lubrication
I don't have a 220. I don't have a 40 either but happened to notice the vent the other day.
In spite of all this lack of oil in the cam area talk on Saitos, I really haven't had any trouble except for the lifters. I would rather the lifter wear out than the cam |
RE: Saito 115 cam lubrication
Yes, great care is advised.
Bill |
RE: Saito 115 cam lubrication
Positive crankcase ventilation. Sounds good to me.
Bill |
RE: Saito 115 cam lubrication
Why not run the dicharge (crankcase vent into the intake manifold and put that wast oil to good use?
Bill |
RE: Saito 115 cam lubrication
Thanks, now I know where to tap into the cam box to add a fitting.
Bill |
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