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Galloping Ghost Transmitter

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Galloping Ghost Transmitter

Old 03-30-2013, 06:31 PM
  #1  
crigotti
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Default Galloping Ghost Transmitter

I was just thinking how much fun and challenge it would be to build a galloping ghost transmitter. I have the article on the Jansson Triple Treat Transmitter from Grid Leaks. It looks very doable. My guess I can still source the parts and might even be able to use a joystick from a modern transmitter. Anybody ever build their own? Are there other designs I should consider? I know the Hallco transmitters were the considered some of the best. Any thoughts on this project? Any guidance too would be much appreciated. Most likely be 27Mhz, even though the Jansson article mentions what has to be done for other freqs. I'd like to here what you think.
Thanks,
Crist
Old 03-30-2013, 08:15 PM
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Default RE: Galloping Ghost Transmitter

I have a single channel transmitter emulated by a PIC microprocessor. I would like to see if a GG emulator is possible. I will get in touch with the guy that developed the single channel for me and see if he thinks it is possible. You could drive a pair of normal servos from a standard joystick and "simulate" the GG action on the rudder and elevator. Throttle could be added as well.
I have a lot of fun with my rudder only model and GG would be even better. I will speak to my friend and keep in touch.

Regards

Old 03-31-2013, 01:38 AM
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Default RE: Galloping Ghost Transmitter

Tom,

What you are going to simulate the way you describe is a pulse system and not GG. GG does all three functions with only one electrical motor which you can't do with just the transmitter. I have done a pulse simulator with a PIC, in the airplane, that pulsed the servo at a rate selected by the transmitter. You could have no dither to a lot of dither. Galloping Ghost was originally called Simpl Simil meaning simple simultaneous by John Worth.

What does confuse some is the transmitter can be the same one for both systems, the only difference is the servo. GG normally uses a slow pulse rate like 4 to 10 PPS whereas a pulse system can be 8 to 15 PPS or even higher depending on the servos.
Old 03-31-2013, 01:55 AM
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Default RE: Galloping Ghost Transmitter

Hi Dan,

Well I was thinking of the emulator outputting a pulse stream as mine does now. But the PIC could (I think), produce each channel (rudder, elevator), with a variable pulse width stream that varied according to the position of the TX stick. Could the pulse stream vary from all short pulses, to all long pulses, thus the control surface would be either flapping at one side or the other, or in the middle. I am assuming that we would use normal servos. Would they be fast enough, I don't know.
Dan, I bow to your experience, I just had the though that a PIC can do a lot of clever stuff.
I would like the PIC experts that follow this stuff to put their minds to it.

Regards

Old 03-31-2013, 05:20 AM
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Default RE: Galloping Ghost Transmitter

Yes, what you describe can be done in the transmitter as well as I did with a special decoder in the receiver. The servos are fast enough to emulate a pulse system.

But like I said, true galloping ghost uses a single motor for all three functions. I started a special galloping ghost servo in 2006 and am currently upgrading it.
I use two PIC's to receive the transmitter channels at the receiver and drive a single motor servo for all three functions. Using processors to drive the servo, I have elimated the centering springs that cause so much trouble.

I have been always amazed at getting three functions from one motor and that is what drives me to perfect it. I flew the new system, but I want it to be better.

I am attaching an overview of my project.
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Old 03-31-2013, 05:35 AM
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Default RE: Galloping Ghost Transmitter

I think what Tom is talking about is best served in its own thread. Back on topic. Here is what I gleaned from Grid Leaks. I was also thinking maybe I could build a copy of my Min-X Pulsmite Galloping Ghost transmitter board. That way I could have extra parts to fix that too.
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Old 03-31-2013, 02:15 PM
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Default RE: Galloping Ghost Transmitter

crigotti.
If you are planning to build the GL transmitter, have attention for two drawings of the article, the layout of the circuit board is the mirror image related to the components that are showed. For mounting of the components it would be better to make a new assembling plan to prevent making faults.
Seeing this fault it would be clever to check circuit diagrams related to lay-out plans too before start building.

Cees
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Old 03-31-2013, 06:16 PM
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Default RE: Galloping Ghost Transmitter


ORIGINAL: Taurus Flyer

crigotti.
If you are planning to build the GL transmitter, have attention for two drawings of the article, the layout of the circuit board is the mirror image related to the components that are showed. For mounting of the components it would be better to make a new assembling plan to prevent making faults.
Seeing this fault it would be clever to check circuit diagrams related to lay-out plans too before start building.

Cees
Thanks. I saw the correction in GL. I couldn't post it because it was a .bmp file. I converted it and here is the correction notice. Good idea on checking the lay-out plans. I'll do a through check out of the documents.
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Old 03-31-2013, 07:49 PM
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Frank Schwartz
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Default RE: Galloping Ghost Transmitter

With all due respects to all the brave souls who want to try Galloping Ghost again....I'd say...unless you really are into it, just try regular rudder only pulse. You will need a different actuator...it has been so long since I tried that. I used to have a little Great Lakes Biplane that I flew with Galloping Ghost. My pulse rate was rather slow and the rudder and the elevator pulsed noticeably. The only way it would work. Anyhow the plane would fly by with the tail going back and forth and the elevator up and down which made the plane pitch up and down as it flew by....a few of the wags at the field named the plane "Obscene Jean"...probably due to the up and down motion of the plane... My, oh, my...that's been so many years ago.......

Regards tp all
Frank Schwartz AMA123
87 years young...still builing and flying.....when I grow up, I might quit all this....
Old 04-01-2013, 01:44 PM
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Default RE: Galloping Ghost Transmitter

Frank,
Galloping Ghost isn't as complicated as it was in the past and for sure not after all these years of research and development, so why not use the most sophisticated radio system we can built? Why be limited by the commercial stuff which of course is of much lower quality and capability.
We also have all kind of tools and equipment now, not these heavy radio tube instruments of the past, griddippers, vacuum tube voltage meters, etc.
An example, see the photograph.
My oscilloscope to visualize DC voltages, an Oscillarzet 05T, manufacturer Siemens & Halske, 46 semiconductors, very recent construction year 1968, how about that?.
The instrument is portable, can be used 8 hours, on the field for tuning the GG transmitter if needed.
OK my radio transmitter still have a tube (ECC82) but.....maybe in the future I can have a full semiconductor transmitter too!!

Cees
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Old 04-02-2013, 10:54 AM
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Default RE: Galloping Ghost Transmitter

Hi Crist,
I built a Jansson GG transmitter from an Ace R/C kit in the late 60s. It worked well and I got to do a lot of flying with this Tx along with a F&M receiver and Rand GG actuator. This system proved very reliable in a Enya .09 powered Royal Coachman. I even won a fun-fly trophy for the longest flight on 2 oz. of fuel. I had the model so high up it was just a speck. The radio worked flawlessly. It was a lot of fun and since I still have the radio, I think I will do it again.

Orv.
Old 04-02-2013, 11:01 AM
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Default RE: Galloping Ghost Transmitter

A trip to the past, with the old equipment we used, is never as glamorous as we remember.
I remember a lot of flights, but I also remember a lot of bench time getting those flights.
Old 04-02-2013, 01:15 PM
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Default RE: Galloping Ghost Transmitter

Crist, building a transmitter isn't the problem just as isn't the receiver.
I just finished a transmitter and 2 receivers, one of these a single channel relailess for 2,4 VDC supply voltage I made for single channel experiments inclusive GG see the photograph
GG electronics for the transmitter I would make with use of some operational amplifiers, a technic of later period and easier to do than single components.
The question is what kind of actuator do you have in mind? Buy/use an existing actuator or making one yourself?


Cees

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Old 04-02-2013, 02:37 PM
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crigotti
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Default RE: Galloping Ghost Transmitter

Guys,
Thanks for your comments.

Frank, I know what your saying but this is for the enjoyment of just doing it. It doesn't have to be "practical". Just fun.

Orv, Sound like you really had some fun it. thanks for the encouragement.

Dan, Yeah I know, the good old days weren't that good! I love to tinker...up to a point. I'm older now and have more patience with this stuff.

Cees, I have a LR-3 that I'll be using.

When I get started I'll start a build thread. I have some questions that I have to find out about first along with getting the parts together. Some of those parts are/will be tough to find.
Old 04-02-2013, 03:17 PM
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Default RE: Galloping Ghost Transmitter


ORIGINAL: crigotti

When I get started I'll start a build thread. I have some questions that I have to find out about first along with getting the parts together. Some of those parts are/will be tough to find.
Get a list together and publish it here. I have some old parts from that era and may be able to help. If I have them you are welcome to them for just the postage.
Old 04-02-2013, 03:22 PM
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Default RE: Galloping Ghost Transmitter

Dan,
Thank you, thank you. I'll put a list together soon.
Old 04-02-2013, 07:08 PM
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Default RE: Galloping Ghost Transmitter

I got the PC board and parts layout all sorted out. I'll start another thread on building the Jasson Transmitter soon.
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Old 04-03-2013, 07:21 AM
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Default RE: Galloping Ghost Transmitter

Here is a video on a very early pulse proportional radio control system developed by the Germans during WWII called the Fritz-X. This was used in a early "smart weapon" to control a bomb. The control system was 3 axis, up/down (to control distance of flight), left/right (to steer), plus a gyro controlled roll so that the other two axis of controls worked as intended. The last 5 minutes of the 15 minute video shows how the control system worked, as the tail control surfaces did not move, but rather changed the lift of the tail surfaces with spoiler blades that moved in and out of the airflow. The Germans thought that a controlled bomb was 80 times more likely to hit it's target, but it was also fairly easy to jam the control link.

No doubt pulse proportional control is a very old concept, but getting 3 controls from a single motor is what make a GG system so amazing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1imE2GwDK8
Old 04-03-2013, 08:47 AM
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Default RE: Galloping Ghost Transmitter

Wasn't that system controlled by a rolling shaft with the contact being made or not made by a wiper...I find it hard to explain...and the thought comes to me that it was called the Knuppel system...or something like that....oh, my, how memory fades with the years..

Frank Schwartz AMA123
87 years young ...still building an flying, but memory isn't a good as I used to think it was.... and I'm not nearly as cute as I used to think I was, either.....
Old 04-03-2013, 11:28 AM
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Default RE: Galloping Ghost Transmitter


ORIGINAL: Taurus Flyer

crigotti.
If you are planning to build the GL transmitter, have attention for two drawings of the article, the layout of the circuit board is the mirror image related to the components that are showed. For mounting of the components it would be better to make a new assembling plan to prevent making faults.
Seeing this fault it would be clever to check circuit diagrams related to lay-out plans too before start building.

Cees
Cees,
I made up a new parts layout on the PC board. I think there was 1 error. Cap C10 was .1uf on the layout and .01uf in the schematic. I also changed R1 and R2 to the values listed in the article (page 31) for 27Mhz. From 12K to 10K and 100 Ohms to 47 Ohms. The article also had a mistake in listing the parts shown on page 5 with the schematic. They listed R1 and R2 in the 27Mhz column the same as the 50-54Mhz column.

I traced the parts layout to the schematics and found no errors. So looks like the documentation is good to go now.
Old 04-03-2013, 01:25 PM
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Default RE: Galloping Ghost Transmitter

Crist,

I read with you.
The capacitor C10 is to prevent higher harmonics when the transmitter end stage is switched on and off each pulse.
Tau is 2k2 x 0,01 x10 e-6 and that seems to be too low (for Dutch standards).
5 tau is about -,11 msec equal to about 9 KHz. 4 kHz is max for us.
It will work but for European standards 1,1 msec would be better, so 0.1 uF. The value plays a role when you use the pulse generator for audio range frequencies above 5 kHz. Which can be done in the USA. For GG the value 0,1 uF will do also. All by estimation!!

The resistors 10 k base and 47 ohm emitter will result is some higher current and output of the oscillator. When the transmitter is finished it would be good to measure the voltage over the 47 ohm resistor, it indicates the current drawn by the transistor. The type of transistor maybe will be different as in the plans so we will see in the future but the values you use seems to be all right now.

Cees
Old 04-04-2013, 06:36 PM
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Default RE: Galloping Ghost Transmitter

I just discovered the ACE Sim-Plus transmitter. It is an improved Jansson wih some additional improvements since the Jansson came out. It uses nearly the same PC board and a few different componets. Time to study up!
The picture is from the RC Hall of Fame.

Well, RCU is having problems uploading. Because of this, I'll be doing the build log on RCGroups. I'll post a link when I get started.

Get it together RCU!
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Old 04-05-2013, 09:19 PM
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Default RE: Galloping Ghost Transmitter

Tried it again tonight. No dice. RCU..........
Old 04-11-2013, 11:31 AM
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Default RE: Galloping Ghost Transmitter

OK, here is the parts list I drew up for the SIM-PLUS transmitter. Some of these parts are hard to find. The real stumper, for me at least, is the 27Mhz 3rd overtone crystal. I'd like this transmitter to be on 27.045Mhz (just like my Min-X) so if I understand it correctly, I'll need a 9.015Mhz crystal...right? The coil form is near impossible to locate by the part number. I think it is 1/4 dia and because its on 27Mhz, it should have a green core. The ARCO 426 trimmer cap is another tough one. eBay has a ARCO 424 but no 426. It lloks like the transistors can be had from stateside suppliers and on eBay UK. The instruction manual says for the 2N2926 either green or yellow coded. I've ssen pictures of transmitters and receivers with green and yellow painted on top of the transistors before. I'm just not sure what "coding" means. Any input on substitutes and such would be appreciated. I've already started drawing up the chassis and how everything will fit in the chassis.



EDIT:
Well the pdf files uploaded correctly but I get a "502 ERROR BAD GATEWAY" when I try to open them.........sigh. RCU is frustrating that's for sure.
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Old 04-11-2013, 12:16 PM
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Default RE: Galloping Ghost Transmitter


ORIGINAL: crigotti

OK, here is the parts list I drew up for the SIM-PLUS transmitter. Some of these parts are hard to find. The real stumper, for me at least, is the 27Mhz 3rd overtone crystal. I'd like this transmitter to be on 27.045Mhz (just like my Min-X) so if I understand it correctly, I'll need a 9.015Mhz crystal...right? The coil form is near impossible to locate by the part number. I think it is 1/4 dia and because its on 27Mhz, it should have a green core. The ARCO 426 trimmer cap is another tough one. eBay has a ARCO 424 but no 426. It lloks like the transistors can be had from stateside suppliers and on eBay UK. The instruction manual says for the 2N2926 either green or yellow coded. I've ssen pictures of transmitters and receivers with green and yellow painted on top of the transistors before. I'm just not sure what ''coding'' means. Any input on substitutes and such would be appreciated. I've already started drawing up the chassis and how everything will fit in the chassis.



EDIT:
Well the pdf files uploaded correctly but I get a ''502 ERROR BAD GATEWAY'' when I try to open them.........sigh. RCU is frustrating that's for sure.
Jack Pot! I have a 27.045 xtal

I couldn't open the attachments either.

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