Controlaire GG
02-21-2005, 01:34 PM
#1
Controlaire GG
I have a couple of Controlair galloping ghost systems and want to build and fly an old timer. I started R/C back in the late 50's with single channel escapement equiptment. One of my Systems has a two wire connection to the actuator and it works fine with both a rand and a controlair actuator. The other has a three wire connection to the actuators. It is this unit that I need help with. I need to re wire the unit. If I remember correctly It had two (2) on off switches and two battery packs. One for the receiver and one for the actual actuators. Can anyone help me here? Also, is it possible to get the three wire actuators to work off the two wire system. I know I have asked a lot here however your help would be greatly appreciated. One more thing... Does anyone repair or work on these anymore?
Thanks Guys!!!
Thanks Guys!!!
02-21-2005, 05:26 PM
#2
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RE: Controlaire GG
I think I can help by filling in a little background information. This all happened a bit before my time, but I recently studied these systems, so maybe I can provide some clues.
As GG evolved, both the actuators and receivers changed interfaces. Keep in mind that all GG used separate battery packs for rx and actuator to minimize interference, thus two switches were needed.
Early GG actuators (what you call the two-wire) required a four cell center-tapped battery pack and a relay receiver. The idea here is that you wanted to alternately apply reverse currents to the two motor wires. This was done by solidly connecting the center tap (0V) of the battery to one motor lead and alternately connecting the remaining lead to one of the other two battery pack ends (+2.4V or -2.4V). The alternation was a result of your receiver output relay. The relay had a common, normally open and normally closed lead which were respectively connected to the remaining motor lead, NO and NC relay connections.
Later technology eliminated the relay and the actuator gained a circuit called an H-Bridge to reverse the polarity of the battery connections to the motor. A center-tapped battery was no longer needed. 4.8V was placed directly across the actuator's H-Bridge circuit and the control line for the H-Bridge was connected to the receiver. Note that a relay receiver could be wired to the new actuator, so there was some reverse compatibility. The rx and actuator batteries probably shared a common ground, from what I can tell.
I have a Rand instruction sheet (2-wire) that explains this and a diagram of the H-Bridge, if you would like to build one.
I personally wouldn't fly on 27megs, but it really depends on your application.
Hope this helps.
-Ron
As GG evolved, both the actuators and receivers changed interfaces. Keep in mind that all GG used separate battery packs for rx and actuator to minimize interference, thus two switches were needed.
Early GG actuators (what you call the two-wire) required a four cell center-tapped battery pack and a relay receiver. The idea here is that you wanted to alternately apply reverse currents to the two motor wires. This was done by solidly connecting the center tap (0V) of the battery to one motor lead and alternately connecting the remaining lead to one of the other two battery pack ends (+2.4V or -2.4V). The alternation was a result of your receiver output relay. The relay had a common, normally open and normally closed lead which were respectively connected to the remaining motor lead, NO and NC relay connections.
Later technology eliminated the relay and the actuator gained a circuit called an H-Bridge to reverse the polarity of the battery connections to the motor. A center-tapped battery was no longer needed. 4.8V was placed directly across the actuator's H-Bridge circuit and the control line for the H-Bridge was connected to the receiver. Note that a relay receiver could be wired to the new actuator, so there was some reverse compatibility. The rx and actuator batteries probably shared a common ground, from what I can tell.
I have a Rand instruction sheet (2-wire) that explains this and a diagram of the H-Bridge, if you would like to build one.
I personally wouldn't fly on 27megs, but it really depends on your application.
Hope this helps.
-Ron
02-21-2005, 11:01 PM
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RE: Controlaire GG
Sadly my Controlaire GG Tx that I've had since the late 60's is not working at the moment and I'm not sure why. But I still have all the paper work for it that includes the schematics since I made mine from a kit. If you need that info I'd be happy to scan it and send you the files. PM me with your email addy if you need these.
I also made my own switcher to let me run the whole works off a single two cell pack. Made for short flying times but it was all I needed. I managed to crash two models before I found out that my set would go out of range ridiculously fast and only JUST saved the third model by holding the TX up over my head and running pell mell toward the model that was death spirallying down. I then spent the rest of my third ever RC flight doing figure 8's around my head until the tank ran out. Talk about learning under fire! A handy article in American Modeller mentioned vertical whip antenna's on the model being a good idea. I tried one and found the set to suddenly have lots of range and be reliable as al get out. I wonder now if it was more thanks to getting the antenna away from the actuator despite it being set up with capacitors and chokes to limit the RF noise?
All of which goes to suggest that I'd not be keen to fire up the old rig other than as a oddity to point at and giggle about.......
I also made my own switcher to let me run the whole works off a single two cell pack. Made for short flying times but it was all I needed. I managed to crash two models before I found out that my set would go out of range ridiculously fast and only JUST saved the third model by holding the TX up over my head and running pell mell toward the model that was death spirallying down. I then spent the rest of my third ever RC flight doing figure 8's around my head until the tank ran out. Talk about learning under fire! A handy article in American Modeller mentioned vertical whip antenna's on the model being a good idea. I tried one and found the set to suddenly have lots of range and be reliable as al get out. I wonder now if it was more thanks to getting the antenna away from the actuator despite it being set up with capacitors and chokes to limit the RF noise?
All of which goes to suggest that I'd not be keen to fire up the old rig other than as a oddity to point at and giggle about.......
02-22-2005, 12:16 AM
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RE: Controlaire GG
8178-
You had a Duo-Pak? Do you have any info on it? My LR3 has a lot of interaction between rudder and elevator & I think the dual setup was supposed to relieve that.
-Ron
You had a Duo-Pak? Do you have any info on it? My LR3 has a lot of interaction between rudder and elevator & I think the dual setup was supposed to relieve that.
-Ron
02-22-2005, 08:23 AM
#6
RE: Controlaire GG
8178
Do you have any information on the dual pack? This is the unit that I want to re wire. I have two rand actuators on one board . it is a three wire set up with a receiver that has a relay. One of the actuators is for rudder and throttle and the other is just elevator. Any help with getting this to work again will be appreciated. If I can get the wiring correct i will be able to see if that actual transmitter and receiver still work.
PM me if you want to discuss one on one.
Thanks [email protected]
Do you have any information on the dual pack? This is the unit that I want to re wire. I have two rand actuators on one board . it is a three wire set up with a receiver that has a relay. One of the actuators is for rudder and throttle and the other is just elevator. Any help with getting this to work again will be appreciated. If I can get the wiring correct i will be able to see if that actual transmitter and receiver still work.
PM me if you want to discuss one on one.
Thanks [email protected]
02-22-2005, 11:41 PM
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RE: Controlaire GG
Rats!
Maybe someone else reading this thread can help us.
Would you believe I saw a duo-pak two years ago at a swap shop NIB? I didn't try to buy it because I wasn't smart enough to know what it was.
jfcgnv- Maybe one of these days we can meet face-to-face being so close. I could show you my Controlaire/Futaba FM GG!
-Ron
Maybe someone else reading this thread can help us.
Would you believe I saw a duo-pak two years ago at a swap shop NIB? I didn't try to buy it because I wasn't smart enough to know what it was.
jfcgnv- Maybe one of these days we can meet face-to-face being so close. I could show you my Controlaire/Futaba FM GG!
-Ron
02-23-2005, 05:15 PM
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RE: Controlaire GG
JFC,
You didn't tell us it was a dual pak. That changes everything.
The rudder throtle actuator has a 6 transistor switcher built in & the elevator actuator has rate decoder built in. You do not want a relay receiver for this set up.
The guy you wrote to privately has all the info you need.
Bob G
You didn't tell us it was a dual pak. That changes everything.
The rudder throtle actuator has a 6 transistor switcher built in & the elevator actuator has rate decoder built in. You do not want a relay receiver for this set up.
The guy you wrote to privately has all the info you need.
Bob G
02-23-2005, 05:18 PM
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RE: Controlaire GG
grotto-2, Ron,
OK come clean now. Tell us about your Futaba/ Controlaire GG set up.
Is it one of Kopski's re-encoders making a new FM radio think it is simulating GG?
Really curious now,
Bob G
OK come clean now. Tell us about your Futaba/ Controlaire GG set up.
Is it one of Kopski's re-encoders making a new FM radio think it is simulating GG?
Really curious now,
Bob G
02-23-2005, 05:45 PM
#11
RE: Controlaire GG
I appreciate all the imputs and we will get this straightened out yet. Like I said i have two sets of Controlaire GG. The set that works is a two wire to the actuator system and it works both with Rand and Controlair actuators with two wires. This system uses only one Battery 4.8 volts. This system works just fine with a relayless receiver. However this relayless receiver has only two wires coming out for hook up to hte actuators.
My other set has a dual pack actuator system and it has a relay receivere with three wires for hook up to the actuators. This is the system I need help with on to re wire. Now I an CONFUSED because if this set does not use a relay receiver then how do I get my releyless receiver with two wires to operate a three wire system. I originally thought I just had a wiring brain F__t. I think the actuator wire colors are blue, green and white. I seem to remember that this system had two batteries. one for the receiver and one for the dual pack.
The simple solution might to be just to some how add a third wire to my relayless receiver. Any Ideas????
My other set has a dual pack actuator system and it has a relay receivere with three wires for hook up to the actuators. This is the system I need help with on to re wire. Now I an CONFUSED because if this set does not use a relay receiver then how do I get my releyless receiver with two wires to operate a three wire system. I originally thought I just had a wiring brain F__t. I think the actuator wire colors are blue, green and white. I seem to remember that this system had two batteries. one for the receiver and one for the dual pack.
The simple solution might to be just to some how add a third wire to my relayless receiver. Any Ideas????
02-23-2005, 09:14 PM
#12
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RE: Controlaire GG
Okay, here's an excerpt from my PM to jfcgnv:
Along the way I picked up a Controlaire GG tx and LR3. I'm old enough to have seen a GG fly in the late 60's and wanted to re-live the excitement.
I kept the encoder intact and used it to drive a Futaba TK module that I had modified to have linear input. (As of today , I doubt that mod is necessary.)
I constructed a receiver using a Futaba R127 with the decoder board removed and replaced with my own custom amplifier/detector board. The rx looks completely off-the-shelf except two separate stock 4.8V battery packs and switches plug into opposite ends of the board, and an LR3 plugs in also. No muss, no fuss. works great.
I haven't had the guts to fly it, though, because a) the actuator doesn't seem all that strong and I don't right now have an appropriate platform and b) the interaction between rudder and elevator.
Along the way I picked up a Controlaire GG tx and LR3. I'm old enough to have seen a GG fly in the late 60's and wanted to re-live the excitement.
I kept the encoder intact and used it to drive a Futaba TK module that I had modified to have linear input. (As of today , I doubt that mod is necessary.)
I constructed a receiver using a Futaba R127 with the decoder board removed and replaced with my own custom amplifier/detector board. The rx looks completely off-the-shelf except two separate stock 4.8V battery packs and switches plug into opposite ends of the board, and an LR3 plugs in also. No muss, no fuss. works great.
I haven't had the guts to fly it, though, because a) the actuator doesn't seem all that strong and I don't right now have an appropriate platform and b) the interaction between rudder and elevator.
