CCRC1

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Ever since the early 1970's I was lucky enough to have a great hobby shop in the area where I live. It was a wonderful place that was a model builders paradise. Stocked with everything a model builder needed, wanted or wished for! I enjoyed being in that store so much that I started working there part time, and did so for almost 10 years. But, as all good things in life, it is now gone. The owner suffered some health problems and the family closed the original store and moved the business about an hour and half away. Today it is but tiny piece of what it used to be.
My point in writing this post is not that my favorite place on earth is now gone, but the motivation that store created in me is now flickering. A trip to the "shop" used to inspire me to build, fabricate and create all sorts of aircraft and served as adrenaline for my imagination.
Balsa wood, fuel tanks, tons of hardware, wheels, covering, paint, adhesives, props, engines, radios, Dubro, Sullivan and Sig fixtures, decals, and kits served as "fuel for my fire". Those of you who have been around for a bunch of years can't tell me you never bought a set of wheels or an engine, just because it was cool, and then built an airplane around them.
But today I travel an hour and a half to look at a handful of ARF's, and foamy junk, and then walk out the door with every penny I came with. Worse, the energy rush I once got, is now replaced with disappointment. Hardly any balsa wood, none of the parts I needed (nothing weird just basic stuff) hardly any engines to look at, or radios and not one kit on the shelf![&o]
I guess the one motivator that still keeps me interested though, is my old back issues (1960's thru 1980's) of the different model magazines. Opening up one of the early 1970's magazines with construction articles for airplanes that paved the trail in R/C will almost always recharge my batteries! I guess soon we will only have memories of what model building used to be like. I think the creativeness and skill of the hobby I have enjoyed for over 35 years are fading away to the new and "improved" ARF demand.
Thank goodness for VRCS and the Senior Pattern Association.

rainedave

My Feedback: (1)

This latest generation of r/c'ers who are buying and flying the arfs are not doing it because they think arfs are better than kits.

They're doing it because they don't know any better. Somehow an entire generation or two has grown up without having ever built models. If they realized that there is actually more to this hobby than simply wiggling their thumbs on a tx, arf sales would taper off. They didn't grow up with it, so they don't really know what they're missing.

The other side of the coin is that arfs are outrageously profitable to market and sell compared to kits. Remember when we were told that CDs were better than vinyl records? The truth was they cost less than 1/100th as much as records to produce; yet they sold for two to three times as much. I never sold my turntable and never stopped buying vinyl because of the inferior sound quality of digital compared to analogue. It took almost twenty years, but finally everyone is now going back to vinyl. People are realizing that analogue is, in fact, a superior technology for reproducing natural acoustic sound.

My point is that given the chance to experience the rewards of modeling, most of the people who are duped by the instant gratification of arfs would actually begin buying kits. I've honestly gotten a half dozen people I worked with to go out and buy turntables after hearing what they've been missing. I think it's the same kind of techno-hoodwinking going on with arfs. It's more profitable, but not better.

CCRC1

My Feedback: (13)

The times, they are changing. I wasn't trying to start an ARF bash by the way. I guess my point is that hobby shops in general are changing. They were once a store that sold an inventory of parts and pieces that a customer took home, mixed with skill, imagination and determination. The end result was a radio controlled airplane.
Now they just sell airplanes, practically ready to fly out the door. They no longer sell parts and pieces, because most of the customers don't build or fix ARF's! They just buy another one. Todays customer also lacks the creativity and individuality that "modelers" once had. Twenty years ago I could go to any field in the country and on a busy day, I could find 10 guys, all flying an Ugly Stik. Now even though there would be 10 of the same airplane, none of them would look the same and most would have been kit bashed somehow.
Hobby shops used to cater to that kind of customer, but no more[&o]
Most hobby shops carry very little covering or balsa wood now. Things that they would never be caught without years ago. I have even been in hobby shop this year, that did not carry sandpaper or T-pins as regular inventory[sm=eek.gif]. (I was told that they would be glad to special order it if I really need it)
I guess my point is that its hard to get motivated in todays hobby shops when you come from earlier generations that had real hobby shops to visit. I think we should stop calling them hobby shops, and start calling them Airplane Stores.

ThunderbirdJunkie

My Feedback: (3)

Not a plane guy...just happened upon this thread when I hit "new posts"...

Anyway, my uncle about 15 years ago built a plane. All I remember is that it was a high wing trainer (i'm 25) that it took him over a year to build, due to his school/work schedule interfering with more important things. He never flew it, because it took him so much time to build and he knew he'd crash it, and didn't want his handiwork destroyed.

about a year or two ago, he got an RTF Nextar (or something similar, not totally sure what it was). out the door, right around $400 or so. the next day he was out flying.

I'm a car guy, and yes the abundance of RTR cars (more or less the same idea, just less work involved in building a kit CAR and a kit PLANE) also kind of disappoints me, because just 11 years ago when I started RC there were so many low-priced high-quality kits it wasn't even funny, and now the only way I can get a belt-drive touring car that I have to put together for under $300 is to buy a Tamiya. Granted, that didn't stop me from buying a Tamiya (I did, and it's a GREAT car), but you can't stop "progress".

what's the advantage? These ARFs, RTF's, RTR's, and all that jazz makes the company more profit, which in turn allows the manufacturers (of not just the cars/planes/boats/whatever, but also engines, motors, speed controls, servos/radios, etc) to spend more money on R&D to constantly improve things, and at least in the car world, the first thing to get improved are the KITS and ELECTRONICS. again, in the car world, the RTR's tend to soldier on for years, while the high end cars (although expensive) are being constantly improved for those of us that are so used to dropping huge money on a hobby that we don't mind BUYING these exhorbitantly priced toys.

Sorry, I saw the topic, and just had to reply And I know that in 25 years I'll be in the same boat reminiscing the good ol' days and cursing some crazy newfangled obsession of the market.

rainedave

My Feedback: (1)

Sorry, CCRC1. I shouldn't have gone off on the arf thing. I wasn't so much slamming arfs as I was trying to claim that modeling is still a rewarding hobby for those who give it a try. It's like the proverbial lamp under the bushel basket. R/C is a great hobby, but a very rewarding half of it is never even seen by many.

I have two hobby shops within 45mins that do stock lots of hardware and adhesives. But very little in the way of building materials, and practically no kits. My guess is that the hardware and glue is stocked mainly for the arf repair and upgrade sales.

There's another feature of the bygone hobby shop that ties into your discussion of inspiration. And that is the display of local modelers' creations. I remember going to the hobby shop sometimes just to marvel at the work of others that was on display or hanging from the ceiling. I can remember looking up at a giant scale F6F thinking how incredible it must be to make something like that. It made me want to build models. What would be the point of hanging up an arf that somebody put together? It was the fact that the F6F was the creation of one individual's skills, talents and artistry that made it something to marvel at.

That's probably what I miss the most. Seeing the best from the area where I lived on display. It was a kind of honor to have one's work shown like that. And, I'm sure most of us have said to ourselves while looking up at the ceilings of the old hobby shops, "Man, I'm going to build one of those one day."

CCRC1

My Feedback: (13)

You are right on my friend, and it was always an honor to have one of my planes displayed. Thats part of what is fading away with the old hobby shops. Pride in skill, craftsmanship, and creativity. That was planted and fertilized at the hobby shop. I remember in the 1970's looking at all of the fantastic pattern ships on the ceiling with the gleaming Hobby Poxy finishes. I kept thinking to myself, if someone else built that, I can build it also, just as good, and maybe better! Look at the wing filets, how the spinner blends perfectly with the fuselage, how cleanly the retract fits in the wing. If somebody else did that, I can do it too!!
I must admit also that I am guilty of saying "man, I am going to build one of those one day", about a thousand times! My kit inventory reflects that!
I posted this in the vintage column because most folks that have come into the hobby within the past several years really won't understand. I hope the moderator will let it stay. If you are lucky to have a good old fashioned hobby shop in your area, support it and treasure it. When its gone, it will leave emptiness that is hard to describe.
I guess what I was trying to get started with this post was not an ARF bash , but one that talks about the way the Hobby Shops used to be. Fun places that stirred the imagination. The smell of Ambroid, balsa wood, castor oil, Aerogloss and and the owners lunch cooking in the back room. The group from the local flying club telling better lies than most fishermen. The ability to look at 10 different assorted parts and in your mind, create an airplane.
As far as Arf's go, live and let live. I guess, I will just have make do.

Tripower455

My Feedback: (2)

CCRC,

I hear you. The closest hobby shop to me is about an hour RT, and I try to give him as much business that I can. I have always believed in supporting the local shops, and make the trek often to do so, but I am often skunked on simple items. There is not one kit on the shelves there, and only a few engines. He will order me whatever I want and match any online price, but why bother? It takes 2 hours of driving in trafic to make that transaction that will take minutes online with no gas cost. I understand that the instant gratification generation is driving the market, but it is still sad......


Even Tower has really gotten skimpy. I remember as a kid getting the new Tower catalogs that were 100's of pages of airplane stuff, and spending hours daydreaming about the Bridi, Royal etc kits that I would someday own and all the other cool stuff that is now gone, and replaced by styrofoam junk.

Scar

My Feedback: (3)

In the first post of this thread you mentioned 35 years of involvement.

I remember 45 years ago, the model shop was a half hour drive away, there was no such thing as a reliable glow plug, and mufflers... you could alienate an entire city block near the ball field, by starting an engine.

The telephone had no buttons, and when you cranked the handle the lady at the central office would plug you in to the local 3 digit number, perhaps a party line. To phone the hobby shop would have been more expensive than driving there.

Radio control was, for us in Rural America, something you read about in the magazines. Control line planes were, fortunately, inexpensive. Stick and tissue planes with rubber band power were much more likely to survive the flight experience.

As you communicate with thousands through the keyboard in front of you, with immediate response and minimal cost, do you really long for those days?

I don't.
Dave Olson

Jim_Purcha

My Feedback: (8)

For us in Winnipeg, this aspect is still around www.cellardwellerhobby.com There are still some planes up on the ceiling. The staff is invaluable for service and advice. Parts have always been on the shelf. The great thing over the last 20 years is that prices on rc have dropped which makes it more affordable for the average person to enter the hobby. Nothing against ARF's, I'm relearning to fly on a avistar I bought at the local shop. It was cheaper than buying a kit and monokote. I've got kits lined up for the next few planes. Miss those Bridi kits on the shelves and the Kraft radios.

rainedave

My Feedback: (1)

Scar, your point is well taken. Please don't take the following as any form of personal jab. I honestly don't intend to offend you or anyone else. But, you raise an issue that I want to comment on. I have never tried to see things in terms of either/or, this or that, black and white, etc. I have never felt any sense of conflict or contradiction whatsoever in my life by simultaneously enjoying the best of various different eras. I am grateful everyday for the opportunities and benefits that computers and the internet provide. Yet, this doesn't trip me up from also benefiting from the countless things that have fallen out of fashion. I made my living for several years coding web services. I was still able to go home every night and listen to vinyl records on my vaccum tube stereo while tinkering with a spark ignition engine or the latest sub-micro dual conversion receiver. My brain never short circuited from crossing time lines. I just never obeyed that obligation to restrain and confine myself to only enjoying the stuff that is presently being manufactured and marketed. Maybe that makes me a square peg and I'm sure I'm not the ideal, "way you're supposed to be" consumer, but I couldn't care less. I've had people tell me, "You can't do that! You're supposed to do things the way everyone else does." Personally, I'd rather be a happy walking anachronism than a miserably normal robot. I find living a so-called contradictory life a lot more interesting. I don't have to make a choice between now or then; it's not a matter of giving up one for the other. I can have both and do. So, I plan to continue enjoying the best technologies of today right along side those of the past. Sue me!

Jim Thomerson

The proliferation of mail order discounters in the '70's and earlier started the slide of the local hobby shop. I could save 50% and have things delivered to my door by the discounter. I decided I would spend $300 a year, essentially a $150 contribution, at my local hobby shops and get the rest mail order. the internet is even more competition, of course. Many of the few remaining hobby shops have crafts, railroads, etc. with model airplanes as almost a sideline.

Nostalgia story; '59-'61 I lived in Lubbock, TX, Because the laundromat was next to the hobby shop, I took over doing the laundry. More time to hang out in the hobby shop. One day Riley Wooten showed around one of his Voodos he had painted up to be photographed for the box art on the Carl Goldberg kit. Not many moments like that in most modern hobby shops.

west6008

I agree with SCAR....I get more flights in one afternoon, crash-free, than I would have
in a whole summer back in the 60's
I lost models in the woods, wheat fields, and lakes.
My first RC model was pure agony, I used to call my glider slope Heartbreak Hill, because
the rudder escapement would usually lock up.
We needed lots of hobby shops because we did more crashing.
The old hobby shops had a fragrance from all the stacked kits and bins of balsa.
That I miss.

Tripower455

My Feedback: (2)

Lots of great points re: nostalgia vs. modern times. As Billy Joel so eloquently stated: "The Good Old Days Weren't Always Good, and Tomorrow Ain't As Bad as it Seems"..


The internet has revolutionized this hobby for me. Radios are much better and less expensive than when I got in the hobby. Same with Engines. Never mind the revolution in electric RC, as now it is a viable alternative due to motor, battery and radio miniaturization.....


I definitely straddle the nostalgia vs. new stuff. I love driving my '66 GTO, with it's 5 speed, disc brakes and electronic ignition, listening to my mp3 player. I love playing/building/modding my vintage tube guitar amps.

The hobby shop of yesteryear is gone. I definitely miss it, but we are probably better off this way...... Although, places like RCU make me spend a lot more $$$$$ by showing me stuff that the local shop would never have had.

Strat2003

My Feedback: (1)

Isn't it ironic... we now have reliable radios, easy-starting, powerful engines, laser cutting and stronger, lighter materials. People have learned how to fly model helicopters and fly planes as if they were helicopters. We have tiny little ones you can fly in your back yard and giants that could carry a child.

And soon nobody will know how to build a model airplane.

CCRC1

My Feedback: (13)

Well, I am not sure the internet has replaced anything. Its really nice to have and sure is a tremendous convenience, but the entire world, and I, survived really well since the beginning of time before it came along.
For example,
Raineday seems like a really nice gentleman and I am glad to have met him electronically. But, I can't shake his hand, buy him a beer, spend an afternoon talking about R/C or flying at my local field. That is unless he wants to drive all the way from North Carolina to Southern Maryland.
The hobby shop was where I met some of the best friends I have.
Scar, you did make me laugh a bit with your post. I started in R/C in 1969, but I was fooling with control line and anything else I could build out of balsa when I was a kid before that. I do remember firing up my brand new Fox .19 at 6:30am one morning and I am surprised that my rear end still isn't fire engine red!
I also like to watch the look of horror when I tell a current flyer that I built several of my early radios from kits. (Heathkits) Their response is usually something like "your crazy, why would you want to do that, when you can just buy one?" The same guy will pay me $2 a cell to solder battery packs for him instead of buying a soldering iron and allowing me teach him to solder for free.
A few of the post here are from younger folks in the hobby(10-15 years), I can tell. The argument- easier, cheaper, better than I can build, cheaper than I can build it, not enough time, come leaking through. And hey, like I said earlier, live and let live. If you like your hobby experiences with a computer monitor, a credit card and a UPS guy thats great. But, you don't know what you have missed.
I will agree that in the early days of R/C that our stuff wasn't that reliable. But how do you think it got to where it is today? Its sure wasn't from us just saying "oh well" and giving up because it was- tough, expensive, somebody else could do it better, you didn't have enough time, or I will just pay someone to do it. And to the surprise of most folks today, it was a ton a fun solving the dilemmas and achieving good flights. And guess where a lot of that was accomplished, at the hobby shop!

rainedave

My Feedback: (1)

Hey, Tripower455! I've got this 5F1 (narrow panel Champ) kit - a real beginner's project - I've been wanting to finish for a while. I may have to get it out and work on it. It was supposed to be a learning project for the 5E8 Twin I really want to build. No pedals in my room.

carmatic1

yeah, maybe proper model building is one of the latest things to be taken away from us by the modern way of life, like good manners at the table , etiquette on the street, proper home cooked dinners, fresh air in the country,and air travel as a luxury... like the phones werent as good as they were today ,and many things that we enjoy and take for granted today hasnt changed since they were first invented, but there are somethings that are definitely gone for good that we'd love to keep, maybe the only place from now on to see and experience these things would be in a movie or something...

aerowoof

not only are some of the favorite shops gone but the ones that remain stock only arf and lots of cars and parts.not that i am knocking arf's as there are not that many kits available.these days it's midwest,gp,top flite,sig.we used to have royal,airtronics,bridi,sterling,j&j,skyglass,d&b,joy,jemco,dave platt/pica,fliteglass and oyhers as well to chose from along with those already mentioned.most of the bin where balsa wood is stocked is nearly empty these days as demand is almost non existant.nearest shop around here is a 2 hour round trip,so I order what i need online.
how many shops did you see in the basement of a local flyers home?I kew of 3 within a 30 mile radius,now they are gone as the owners died no one took over.

rainedave

My Feedback: (1)

Yeah, the little corner or basement operations were nice. Where I used to live there was this pharmacist who flew and ran a tiny hobby counter in the back corner of his pharmacy. As far as I could tell he was only interested in making enough off the counter to pay for his own supplies, which he apparently bought wholesale to begin with. The pharmacy supported his family. Walmart ultimately put his family owned pharmacy out of business - so I was told - and I have no idea what ever happened to him.

Jim Thomerson

I am a dinosaur. I like to fly control line stunt. I suppose I am a sport flier who likes to fly in competition. Today, there are a number of really excellent engines available. There are a large number of very good laser cut kits. For those who want ARF's there are a dozen or so good ones on the market, and more on the way. Electric is coming on. Just about anything you might want. A plethora of accessories are available. There are hundreds of plans available. You can order good balsa. The experts readily share their knowledge via the internet and in print. Even the older engines run better today than they did when NIB. There are plenty of contests; I generally make six or seven a year. I've met people from all over the country and several foreign countries as well. I learned to fly CL in 1953, so I fly a good bit of Old Time Stunt , for airplanes up through 1952. I love being able to build and fly all those airplanes I drooled over in the magazines but couldn't do anything about as a kid. People even run sparkers with transistorized ignition systems and get good performance. There are many new materials and new techniques. I just made my first set of molded leading edges. And we haven't even mentioned SAM.

No, there is no CL stuff at the few remaining local hobby shops. I don't see kids flying CL on schoolyards. I drive 49 miles one way across the most congested midsize city in the USA to fly with a few buddies. But, hey, life is good!

Tripower455

My Feedback: (2)

LOL........

Nice... Nothing wrong with a Champ! I am definitely not a "pedal" kind of guy either, BUT...... have gotten a few lately. I started gigging with a friend a while back, and even my 18 watt "Marwatt" is too much for the places we play when it get's into the sweet spot. I am using a cheap OD pedal into my amps, and you know, it does the valve OD and pinch harmonics nicely, for what it is, of course. Nothing like running my DR504 at "11" , but most local PDs don't have that kind of sense of humor!


Building amps is a lot like learning to fly RC. A very steep learning curve at first, but it definitely gets easier. It is also very helpful when it comes to maintaining vintage amps. I rebuilt a '69 Traynor YBA1 into more or less a JTM45 clone for a fraction of the cost of a real vintage JTM 45..... It nails the AC/DC stuff....


But I digress.....

I miss the old walk in with $100 and walk out with an armload of cool stuff hobby shops!

rainedave

My Feedback: (1)

Jim, you make a great point that, I must admit, I take for granted all too often. Now is without a doubt the best time in history to be involved in model airplanes. What the internet has done is to allow dozens of little one person/family businesses to operate with very little overhead and reach a global market. The thruth is, I bet I can get a set of points for one of my Sideport .23s faster today than someone could in 1947, and they'd probably outwear the originals, too. I get cynical very easily. It's just my nature. Thanks for reminding me that there's virtually no design in the history of model aviation that I can't build and fly today.

Tripower455, it's true what you say about tube amp volume and how something like a Deluxe can blow someone out of a small club. As you know, doubling the watts adds 3db in theory. What a lot of folks don't realize is that there's a much greater volume increase from 3 watts to 24 watts (9db increase) then there is from 50 to 100 watts (3db increase). Of course, dynamics and headroom contribute to perceived volume, too. Have you seen what those Ibanez Tube Screamers (SRV wannabes) are going for on ebay? Yikes!

Tripower455

My Feedback: (2)

No kidding! I can't play my Hiwatt, even clean except at the lowest volume, without hearing protection. My 18 watter is almost as bad. I built a "firefly", which is supposedly 1/2 watt, and that one can get loud too!

Don't laugh, but I have bee using a Digitech Bad Monkey overdrive into my amps for a while, and you know, it does the T.S. thing frighteningly well for $40 new. A friend of mine is a pedal monger 9to say the least) and has a lot of nice vintage stuff. This little guy is really close, IMHO, to a vintage screamer. I prefer it into a fairly clean amp. It sounds OK into a overdriven amp, but then it gets too loud again....

dicknadine

Like yaall have said IF IT DOESN'T come from China it ain't produced anymore!. however fortunitly there are a couple of bulk balsa company's left-- like Lonestar that us scratch builders can stay in the hobby. it ain't a instant gratification hobby, its the end result of your work that pays off. dick

rainedave

My Feedback: (1)

That would make a great tag line to include in your signature!