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Is "Wood Glue" dead?

Old 08-10-2007, 01:38 AM
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Grampaw
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Default RE: Is "Wood Glue" dead?

Epoxy. I remember when it first appeared on the model building scene, especially the 5 Minute kind. We got some and after trying it, began to grin more while building. It really sped up our building sessions! We could lay up a bunch of wing ribs along a spar, slap on a dab of mixed epoxy and sit back and count the seconds till that wing was ready to take off the board! It was fantastic for field repairs! My only gripe about it was when I used it on a white Sport Job I designed and built. Kind of like a First Cousin to a Mustang. After a botched low pass one Sunday followed by repairs to the nose section with 5 Min. Epoxy it looked like it had been used as a target at a Tobacco Juice Spitting Contest! The nose took a bad "hit" and was repaired during the following week. The Monokote had to be peeled back for repairs. After the Epoxy dried, Monokote was laid back and ironed over the damaged areas. A strange brownish color come through during the covering's iron-on session. Following that Epoxy was used only for internal repairs that would remain unseen. Still, we had fun. Late one Sunday my buddy called to ask if I had anything to repair for the following weekend. I told him "No, I didn't break nothing." He came back with, "Me neither! Well, I guess that means we're getting better at the flying part huh?" After 40 years or so, I still look at a Golf Course or a Horse Pasture and mutter, "What a Flying Site this would make!"
Old 08-10-2007, 02:34 AM
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vasek
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Default RE: Is "Wood Glue" dead?

I also went back to wood glue due to allergies. Recently I found out about this glue:

Delux Super Phatic
Super phatic is a great alternative to cyano, It has a 5 mins drying time, can flow into joints aswell as soak into wood. It leaves an easily sandable surface joint.


I haven't tried it yet but it looks promising! It is wood glue like BUT it's more diluted and can be applied after the balsa is "dry-fitted" (same as cyano)
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Old 08-10-2007, 09:33 AM
  #28  
carlosponti
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Default RE: Is "Wood Glue" dead?

i use wood glue due to CA burning my eyes and making me not want to use it. plus it makes to big a mess.
Old 08-10-2007, 10:08 AM
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s. wallace
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Default RE: Is "Wood Glue" dead?


ORIGINAL: HighPlains

While on the subject of glues, has anybody found a epoxy as good as Hobbypoxy II to replace it?

I sure do miss good ole Hobbypoxy II, nothing else I've tried has been close to that good.
Old 11-15-2007, 09:22 PM
  #30  
mred33
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Default RE: Is "Wood Glue" dead?

Try System III epoxy. You can get different hardners for it to make fast or slow setups with it and it is GREAT. I use the 30 min and love it. They also have 45 min. if you need that too. You can get it at most marine supply houses or order direct. I also came back to the hobby after a long span and was shocked to see all of my favorite planes gone and nothing but BAFS with very few kits. All of my favorite planes are gone and I guess I'll never see them again. I use Titebond II and love it. I have used and still use CA for holding while I glue with Titebond, but I hate the fumes. I do have one question though. How the heck do you check and or re-glue joints on an ARF with everything covered????? I am going back to building from plans and getting one from a kit cutter because I can't find an ARF that I can trust not to come apart. Besides, they don't make what I want and they decied what color the plane is, not me. What am I supposed to do, buy an ARF and rip the covering off so I can check the glue joints and then cover it the way I want to???? Bring back the KITS and on with the Epoxy and Tightbond. Just another old fart spouting off.
Old 11-16-2007, 09:12 AM
  #31  
H5487
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Default RE: Is "Wood Glue" dead?

Actually, mred33, that may be the reasoning behind the slowly growing popularity of ARCs.
Old 11-16-2007, 05:19 PM
  #32  
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Default RE: Is "Wood Glue" dead?

CA has great tensile strength, lousy shear strength. You cannot easily remove it, if at all once it's applied. It has it's place, but I preffer the following:

Ambroid
Sigment
Duco Cement
all cellulouse glues, good sanding, removable with thinner, semi fuel proof

Elmers
Titebond
"wood" glues, removable w/ water, not fuel proof, hard to sand, great bonds.


Epoxies
Forever, but 5 minute is not water or fuel proof, stains wood, not sandable on balsa
Super strong and good for engine mounts, landing gear.

I use cellulouse on most stuff, dries as fast if not quicker than wood glues, leaves no hard to sand lumps, is much lighter, and can be removed/softened with thinner if needed. Only drawback is crusty fingers, and Ambroid leaves an orangy looking stain.

For high strength I use 2 ton slow cure Devcon epoxy, but you have to be extra carefull.

I use CA for tacking things in place, and it's great for repairs...it ain't fuel proof though.
Old 11-16-2007, 05:44 PM
  #33  
LSF2298
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Default RE: Is "Wood Glue" dead?

If you can't sand Titebond, then you must be using too much. If you use just enough to lightly coat the joint, I find it sands very easy. However, if you get too much in the joint, it can sometimes cure gummy, which I agree, is hard to sand.
Old 11-16-2007, 06:15 PM
  #34  
Raymond LeFlyr
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Default RE: Is "Wood Glue" dead?

I have two cents to contribute. For my most recent two projects (Bitsy Bee and Bitsy Blitz) I've used Elmers Carpenters Wood Glue (Bri-colle) in a squeeze tube dispenser. It looks pretty much like every other yellow glue, saying it dries fast is sandable and paintable. But it has two things going for it. The tube dispenser is great. It stores upside down on a nice large flat cap that screws on and seems to effectively shut off air to the tip. The tip istelf is quite small and delivers a much finer glue line than any Titebond or other Elmers white glue I've had. The other good thing about it is that the second language directions are in French (Ah Fifi it is non toxique).


As for what other folks have said about epoxies, yep I agree. And I too don't use CA glues much because of problems with the fumes. FWIW I think it is a serious failing on the part of the AMA that they fail to point out the health hazards associated with CA - given that many people have ended up in emergency rooms due to severe reactions. Oops, as you were troops, sorry for the rant. Carry on.
Old 11-16-2007, 06:33 PM
  #35  
jaymen
 
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Default RE: Is "Wood Glue" dead?

Titebond will remain, long after the balsa is sanded away...no two ways about it! Great glue, but be sure you clean up any residue with a wet sponge, rag, or paper towel before it dries. Elmers sands a bit easier, but again, you have to be real careful about residues.

I myself double cement with cellulose glue, just habit I guess, but the results are hard to beat, and it does not stick to the wax paper. Titebond and wood glues have a habit of sticking the wax paper to the plans, structure, and then the building board via the pin holes, especially in areas under the structure where you cannot get to while it's drying....very annoying!

But since I'm a free flighter at heart, even though I love R/C, and do alot of 1/2A jobs, I have found Titebond and wood glues to be much heavier than good old Sigment or Ambroid.
And when doing a colored tissue-over balsa finish(no color dope, just clear) the cellulose glues don't show as they blend in with the clear dope. A glue joint made with wood glue stands out under the tissue and gives an uneven mottled look to the colored tissue finish.
Old 11-17-2007, 08:12 PM
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Default RE: Is "Wood Glue" dead?

"Wood Glue" is alive and well, as posted above! Titebond is a fantastic glue IMO, however is it actually an "Ailphatic Resin". It yield's something similar to a good weld where the finished joint is stronger than either material used.

As an example: http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXHS61&P=ML
Old 11-18-2007, 02:01 PM
  #37  
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Default RE: Is "Wood Glue" dead?

Titebond is a PVA (cross-linking Poly-Vinyl Acetate) much like Elmers Glue but much, much stronger. I like Titebond II because it is water-resistant and can be used outdoors but the original is just as strong and is less expensive. I buy it at Home Centers like Big Orange in the quart size (32 oz) for about $20. I then transfer the glue into a more appropriate applicator bottle like an old 4 oz. Elmers bottle with the orange rotating tip we all remember from our First Grade craft projects. I admit the Titebond applicator tip is lousy for precision work and allows the bottle to dry out if left on a shelf for a while.

A quart will easily build 2 to 3, 1/4 scale airplanes so the cost savings over CA are huge and the bond is much stronger. I seal the quart containers from air by placing a small square of plastic wrap over the mouth before screwing the top back on. I have never heard of anyone developing a reaction to PVA because it is water based.
Old 11-18-2007, 03:32 PM
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js3
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Default RE: Is "Wood Glue" dead?


ORIGINAL: vasek

I also went back to wood glue due to allergies. Recently I found out about this glue:

Delux Super Phatic
Super phatic is a great alternative to cyano, It has a 5 mins drying time, can flow into joints aswell as soak into wood. It leaves an easily sandable surface joint.


I haven't tried it yet but it looks promising! It is wood glue like BUT it's more diluted and can be applied after the balsa is "dry-fitted" (same as cyano)
Vasek,

How are you? How goes your Wedell Williams racer project?

Ok back to the thread. Where can I buy Super Phatic? I've been to all the big box stores in my area (Lowes, Home Despot, Hobby Lobby, Ace) and nobody can even order it for me. I'm not finding much on the web either. Most suppliers seem to be in UK and I don't really want to pay the intl shipping. I'd love to try this glue if I can find a US dealer.

Take care,
Old 11-18-2007, 04:23 PM
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LSF2298
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Default RE: Is "Wood Glue" dead?

Here you go!

http://www.hobby-lobby.com/adhesive.htm
Old 11-18-2007, 06:16 PM
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js3
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Default RE: Is "Wood Glue" dead?


ORIGINAL: LSF2298

Here you go!

http://www.hobby-lobby.com/adhesive.htm
Not sure why that link didn't turn up for me when I searched. Anyway, thanks a ton!
Old 11-18-2007, 07:23 PM
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HighPlains
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Default RE: Is "Wood Glue" dead?

Hard to believe, but the "evil empire" has discontinued carrying Ambroid liquid cement.
Old 11-18-2007, 08:08 PM
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safeTwire
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Default RE: Is "Wood Glue" dead?

That stinks! Good thing it's always in stock at my LHS. Ambroid mixed with Micro Balloons make a nice light weight filler. Titebond mixed like this also make's a form of spackle. Remember Testors? It came in a white tube with a small diamond shaped screw/plug for storage?
Old 11-18-2007, 08:10 PM
  #43  
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Default RE: Is "Wood Glue" dead?

I really like Superphatic from HL, but wish it were not so expensive. I use Weldbond for almost everything, but the SP comes in handy when I want to saturate an area, or for repairs. Jim
Old 11-18-2007, 11:27 PM
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Default RE: Is "Wood Glue" dead?

Been building for just over two years - balsa and coroplast. I've build two balsa kits(Sig LT-40 & Somethin' Extra) so far and about to finish my third(Herr Pitts Special) and I'm a Titebond II user. Only time I use CA is for small cracks or any other place it's wicking qualities are required. Epoxy and Poly U have their place as well when required. CA as a primary glue doesn't work for me. The smell is awful, sets up too quickly, runs all over the place, etc. - not for me. A build takes longer with Titebond but I get my desired results.

somegeek
Old 11-19-2007, 09:24 AM
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Default RE: Is "Wood Glue" dead?

Here's a good overview article I found with some good adhesive info for r/c builders:
[link]http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3819/is_200402/ai_n9374754/pg_1[/link]
Old 11-19-2007, 02:01 PM
  #46  
Red B.
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Default RE: Is "Wood Glue" dead?

Wood glues are not dead, but it appears my favourite glue is: PICA GLU-IT and PICA's Acrylic Copolymer GLUIT-2-IT.
Does anobody know about the origin of these glues? I would really like to find another source. GLU-IT was my preferred wood glue (and I have used quite a few brands over the years). GLU-2-IT is a "Acrylic Copolymer"-glue that is fantastic for bonding most plastics to wood. It is outstanding for gluing hinges plastic hinges and for gluing canopies. IMHO the classic RC-56 glue is not as good.
Old 11-24-2007, 02:17 AM
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Default RE: Is "Wood Glue" dead?

I would suggest you consider using a mix of all three types of glue. Titebond III is my favorite wood glue, I still use 30 Min. Epoxy for Motor Mounts, and Various CA's for many small parts that have good fit up. I really like the new Mercury CA's. they come with a 2 year g. and a special no plug tip.

As for coverings, I have given up on silk and dope and have gone 95% to Micafilm + Balsarite to stick it down. A bit more of a pain to use, but gives a great look, and it's strong. It says it's not fuel proof, but I have some planes 7-10 years old with it on them and 10-20% nitro does not seem to damage the finish. Now I must figure out what to do with my 20-25 yards of old Japanese silk I brought back from my time in Japan in the USAF. I brought back about 100 yards of various colors and over the years have used about 75 to 80 yards. I just don't have the time to finish planes with silk and dope anymore.

Ralph
Old 11-24-2007, 01:02 PM
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Default RE: Is "Wood Glue" dead?

I use a lot of CA, as most of my planes are either combat or small sport models. I haven't used Titebond in years, guess I'm impatient, but I use thick and thin CA's, epoxy and occasionally PU (gorilla) glue. Been building with blue foam and coro for a while, just got back into butchering balsa. I have found that the foam safe CAs do not seem to put out any fumes, at least compared to the standard CA's, nor does it 'frost up" on a canopy. I'll use a drop or two of the thick foam safe to tack a canopy on, then use a bead of RC/56 to finalise the intstallation.
I haven't used Ambroid since I was 11 years old (1972), I used the old Testors wood cements, think the brown tube was the fastest and best for glow fuel, if I remember correctly. CA is great if used correctly and with good ventilation, but if the fumes irritate you, you just might try the foam safe and see if that helps any.
Cash
Old 11-24-2007, 09:34 PM
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Default RE: Is "Wood Glue" dead?

Titebond and epoxy glue for me. I got tired of the fumes from CA's and only use it once in a while. I do silk and dope too, guess I'm tuning into an old fuddy duddy. Any of you guys who have around long enough remember the model airplane glue sniffing problems of the sixties?
Old 11-24-2007, 10:26 PM
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safeTwire
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Default RE: Is "Wood Glue" dead?

Yep, I remember!
Around 7th grade 1965, some "goon" heard I built model airplanes and all of a sudden got interested. He came over one day, looked over my planes/workspace, pocketed the glue and left! [sm=spinnyeyes.gif]

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