build light

I was looking through some of my unbuilt kits and ran across an old Cleveland model kit of a McDonnell FF jet stick and tissue type dated 1952.

I have heard some real horror stories of wood quality in kits, mostly during wartime when balsa was in short supply to the homeland model bulders. During wartime some kits had only a little balsa with other woods being substituted and some used cardboard!
Cleveland was (from my understanding) one of the elite companies that produced some of the best plans available, but what about wood quality?

I have to say that aside from the yellowing and fading of the colors on the box, plans and tissue that the wood is really superb! Even the diecutting is clean. So much so that in most places you cannot see the cuts without bending the wood. There is no die crunching at all! The printing is equally well done. Early runs help the diecutting aspect because the blades are still sharp

So, how about it? any comments regarding the quality of these kits or did I happen to get an espcially good one?

Robert

P.S. the kit is the Simplex series S-127 McDonnell Voodoo

salat

My Feedback: (4)

Hi Robert.
About wood quality. SOME of kits produced during war had war time substituted wood. That means that some of wood is hardwood for strips and hardwood or some kind of pressurized cardboard for sheets. I had bad luck with one ebay seller who sent me such kit (P-38). All others I took special care to communicate with sellers to be sure about it. In my case - substituted strips are hardwood and some of sheets are greenish cardboard. It is impossible to not recognize it.
The fact that you have war time kit does not certainly mean that it have wood substs.
Another thing about your kit.. It is "Simplex". Cleveland had several lines of kits. Simplex (S), Training and Industrial Training (T and IT) - used by students connceted with aviation. And Master kits. They had M, SF or D letters in the name. (D - for dwarf - 1/2 of SF scale). So Simplex is easiest case, not museum quality. It doesn't worth 200 or even 100. I think collectors at ebay can pay for it $50 at best if it in mint condition. More interesting would be making it electric flyer. Simplex have much less wood that IT or SF, so it could be built very light.
Cleveland airline sells plans now. http://clevelandairline.com
Regards,
Kostya

pd1

I still have a couple of Cleveland kits.
Here's a couple of pictures to show the difference between the Master series and the regular flying series.

I did not know that Cleveland had Die Cut kits.
All the Cleveland's I built were printed balsa.
And the wood was pretty good too.

salat

My Feedback: (4)

top most is goldberg
pd1, what else Cleveland's you have?
I have P-38, P-47, A-20, B-26, Mosquito. All SFs.
Or may be you have any Miniature Aircraft's?
Kostya

pd1

Sorry, I only have the two Bonanza kits left.
Paul

build light

There is no doubt that the term Simplex meant that these were entry level models intended for beginners. For a kit producer it would have the least amount of quality control for materials. For Cleveland Model & Supply being the quality Company it was then, even their lesser kits may have been of much greater quality than the best of lesser kit mfg.s.

I actually have two kits, One the Voodoo and the other being the McDonnell Banshee.
The plans for both are badly moth eaten with many holes but with care can still be used to build the model. End flaps are gone on both boxes making the kits themselves hardly worth preserving as a serious collectable item and they smell very musty. Still the artwork is admirable and if you don't have one at all then they at least something. Decals are present and in remarkable condition. The small parts envelope containing the preformed landing gear, wheels and yes even the tiny strips of sandpaper for sanding the notches into the bulkheads and ribs are like new with no blemish, no tarnish. The bubble canopy is vac formed from very thin plastic but is crystal clear and free from blemish.

I still am in awe of the quality of every pice of wood from the stringers and slotted wing leading edges to the die cut sheets.

Here I show a portion of the three sheets. Actually they are lighter in color than the scanney makes them to be and all the ink is a medium blue color only more clearly seen on the top sheet. As noted the die cuts are pretty much invisible on most pieces and where it is seen the cuts are very clean.

Robert

build light

Paul, both Bonanzas look great and I too love the Bonanza yet have yet to model it in any form.
You don't really need both of them do you? Hmmm?

Robert

build light

Kostya, Not trying to be off subject but have you seen the pictures of the Cleveland P-36 here?

http://www.commercemarketplace.com/h...kitannex4.html

Robert

salat

My Feedback: (4)

Hi Robert!
You probably mentioned SF-85 P-38 kit? Yes, my kit have exactly same box (full blue/red box). But seller "tommienova" from ebay was unfair and did not stated that it contains substituted wood and this way fooled me... That was my first Cleveland kit (and only bad one ) I bought it 1.5 year ago.
Here REMARKABLE job on Simplex kit (and the only I know posted online) by great builder, David Duckett:
http://www.virtualaerodrome.com/imag...d=7775&offset=

Kostya

salat

My Feedback: (4)

Wow, Robert, I never seen diecut Cleveland kit (I only have SFs).. Great quality comparing to Guillow's!!
Kostya

CoosBayLumber

My Feedback: (1)

Only die cut Cleveland kits that I have seen are the few that they produced as flying gas powered models. Like the Playboy. Everything else was printed onto rock hard balsa wood that split upon "thinking" of cutting up with a razor blade.



Kostya...

Is that a gold Mig?

How many were painted such?

Makes it look special, one off, and fast.



Wm.

salat

My Feedback: (4)

Hi Wm!
Wood in Cleveland SF kits is pretty good (in my beginner's opinion). 7-9lbs I think. You kit probably was over dried.
Yes, David builds static models. And he sheeted it all around, not partially by plans. But I do not think he builds too heavy. For example big Guillow's B-29 he build is around 1 pound and he doubled number of stringers.
I think Simplex and IT kits have potential as powered planes. I'm going to build them electric powered. Just not having enough experience to start with them yet.

Kostya

CoosBayLumber

My Feedback: (1)

Kostya...


I never saw a smaller die cut kit in town I grew up in. Figure that the store manager had a different discount rate on die cut versus printwood models. May have sold for same cost, but the contents of the box sure were different. Could be the store made more profit in selling the older models than the newer ones, thus I bougth Comet kits there for awhile.




But...


Tell us a bit more about that gold looking Mig you pictured?



Wm.

salat

My Feedback: (4)

Hi Wm!
That Mig built by David Duckett. Just above picture you see the link
Kostya

CoosBayLumber

My Feedback: (1)

Kostya...


Odd thing here. One computer does not show any link.

Plugged in another computer, and it shows an active link, but only one page, the same as you show.

Will have to examine my Internet browser settings again. May be then can see even more.


Wm.

salat

My Feedback: (4)

Page with Mig normally have menu on left side. This is problem of you browser's security settings which prevent DHTML scripts from running properly. I would suggest you to try Google Chrome. It is nice and reliable.
Kostya

kotyara

Hello friends,
I had questions about the site owner www.clevelandairline.com, I wrote a letter about the product through "contact us" http://www.clevelandairline.com/CM/CONTACTS.shtml , but no answer. Does anyone know this site is working now? I want to send an order for Travel Air 4000, must pay about $ 100 per order (including shipping), I think the site is no longer working and my money will be lost. Who can show an example that the parcel has been received sucessfully from clevelandairline recently?
sorry for my bad english
Thanks