rs670

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A friend gave me this "Vintage style" plane. I've been wanting to get one of these for a while. I have no idea what it is but if someone else recognizes it, please let me know. It's a little rough around the edges so I'll strip it down to bare wood and try my best to make it "new" again.

See attached pics for first stages....

cap10b

A Buzzard Bombshell ??

jds

squeakalong

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Do you have a pic of the wing?

Soft landings.

Joe

rs670

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Here's a picture of the wing. It's not a Buzzard Bombshell since it doesn't have a polyhedral wing. One of my friends mentioned the name "Commandor". I have no idea what that is nor can I find any info on it.

cap10b

Buzzards come with and without polyhedral

jds

Leadchucker

More likely that it's a Berkley Brigadier.

aeronca52

I'd go along with leadchucker, especially after seeing the stabilizer. I have a 60 year old Brigadier and it looks very much like this one.

Gollywock

It's an enlarged modelcraft 'Commando'. The original (1941) had a 50" wing.

rs670

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The Berkley Brigadier seems real close but the fin looks a little different. I wonder if Gollywock is on to something with the Commando. I may have misunderstood my friend saying Commandor. The wingspan on this one is 78" I'll see if I can find info on the Commando.

Here's a couple more pics

rs670

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OK, I convinced it is a "Commando"... Thanks Gollywock! Here are a couple more pics. I've been working on the fuselage the last couple days. After stripping off all the covering, I replaced a few braces and reglued every gussett. I completely reconstructed the areas around wing hold down pins with light ply. I also reworked the main gear to look more like the vintage "old timers" by raking the gear forward and installing 4" wheels. I'm currently waiting on delivery of the 4 stroke engine, radio equipment, covering etc. I'll stick with transparent red but with metallic gold trim. The next stage will be to get the main wing in shape. This is turning out to be more work than I expected. I'm hoping it will be a pleasure to fly. If any of you experienced guys have suggestions, PLEASE let me know.

squeakalong

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Patience, patience and more patience is the key. Enjoy the building experience... and BTW...get a bit of balsa dust and such on that workbench of yours..it's MUCH too clean!!

Soft landings.

Joe

Aurora_60

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LOL.. I'm glad you noticed the workbench too Speak.
I started to feel bad about myself, his bench is cleaner (and shinnier) than my planes!

The fuse looks like new build. Great attention to detail rs670. Please keep the pictures comming!


DM

squeakalong

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rs670, here's a couple of pics of a 72" ws plan built Pacific Ace I built for my wife, Joyce, to fly. It's covered in Transparent Red and Cream Monokote with 1/8" Gold pin striping that I cut from a roll of Gold Monokote. Thought you'd like to see how nice the transparent covering can look on an Old Timer like you have there.

Soft landings.

Joe

rs670

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Thanks for the comment on the clean workshop but don't let it fool you. (I usually clean up a little before taking pictures. More often than not, It's so messy, I can't find things. Nice plane Sqeak. That's the look I'm after.

Here are a couple more pics.... I'm starting to sheet the center section of the wing. (lot of work here) I haven't decided yet about bolting on the wing or using rubber bands. I'm leaning toward the bolts if I can come up with a clean way to do it.

Some parts started arriving today... Here's where the "vintage" philosophy goes out the window. I'm installing an OS 56a four stroke engine along with Spektrum 2.4 GHz DSM technology. Hopefully, everything else should arrive early next week.

billmod12

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Beautiful job! what are you using to strip the fuse and wing? Here is my work bench when my wife is out of town!

rs670

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Thanks Bill.... I did all the stripping using a heat gun, scraper, lots of sandpaper and patience.

Here some pics of latest status of project....

Today was spent designing bolt-on wing, finish sheeting top and bottom center section and contouring wing saddle to perfectly fit airfoil of wing. Still lots of filling and sanding to do....

squeakalong

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A suggestion if I may: Whenever I take off old covering on a plane built by someone else I make it a point to take some Elmer's Carpenter's Wood Glue (the Exterior version), thin it about 50%, and paint it on all the joints with an inexpensive plastic handle hobby paintbrush. You don't need a lot of glue on the joint - just paint it on quickly and neatly and go on to the next wood joint. When it is dry the glue will have gotten into whatever little cracks and openings that you may not have seen and, because the glue shrinks as it dries, won't really be noticed. Wash out the brush and you can use that again on another project. Go over the framework lightly with your sanding block and you're ready to get on with the covering procedure. Adds peace of mind for a little bit of extra time and effort.

Soft landings.

Joe

rs670

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Thanks Joe.... I'm glad you let me know at this stage. I'll definately do that. It seems everytime I do some more sanding I discover another loose joint. Hopefully, I can start covering next week.

squeakalong

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I usually put on some music..maybe ENYA (be still my heart ) or whatever and just have a go at it. Swirl the brush tip in water and wipe the tip on a paper towel from time to time as you go along. Makes brushing the glue easier and without much excess glue buildup.

Another suggestion if I may: On your wing you might want to add some 1/16" sheet balsa shear webbing (vertical grain) to the back of the main spars and carry this outward to the wingtips. I know it can be a pain to do this but the strength factor on your wing will be greatly enhanced. I'd do this on the rear spars at least halfway out towards to tip, too.

Soft landings.

Joe

rs670

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OK... on the shear webbing, I don't understand (vertical grain). Is the grain going 90 degrees to the spar or parallel? One more question... how big are they? I have lots of time.... maybe I'll do that.

Rick

squeakalong

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Hi, Rick. Here are a couple of pics from my Astro-Hog build that show the webbing I'm putting on the model.

Pic 1 shows the tools I use: in this case I am using 1/16" x 3" wide balsa sheeting of medium weight, hobby knife with #11 blade, pencil, metal straight edge, and sander.

Pic 2 shows the web in place: note the grain. I measure the distance between the top and bottom of the wing spars and add 1/16" to the dimension. Measure this dimension on the 3" sheet stock and mark. Cut via metal straight edge and #11 blade. Now, what I do is rest the wing panel on its leading edge so as to make it easier to add the web piece. I gently sand one edge flat on the web (an edge that will glue up against a rib) and lay the web in place over the two spars. You should have a little bit of wood overhanging the top and bottom spar. Now, the web will rarely ever fit exactly as cut so either sand a little bit off the "to long" end to match the mating rib or, in some cases you might have to add a bit of wood to make the web a bit longer in order to fit well in between the ribs. I generally will cut an extra web of the proper top to bottom dimension and set it aside; when I need to add a bit to lengthen a web I cut off about 1/4" of the extra web to make a shim and glue it to the web via thin CA. Then you can trim to fit when installing the web.

So, measure the distance from the top of the top spar to the bottom of the bottom spar and add 1/16". Make up and complete one web at a time and work your way out as far as you want to go.
Mark the measured distance on the 1/16" x 3" sheeting keeping the grain vertical (running 90 degrees to the spar). Cut this web from the sheet stock. Very lightly sand one short edge smooth to mate against a rib. Lay the shear rib against the spar and up tight against a rib with a bit of sheet hanging over each spar. Adjust the web to fit the space between the two ribs by either sanding or adding a piece. When satisfied with the dry fit, place glue on the two spars between the ribs ( I use medium CA) and carefully press the web to the spars and rub down. I use a metal straight edge up against a rib to ensure the webbing is tight against the rib and flat against the spars. Add a drop or two of thin CA to the web/rib joint and hold the web in place. Turn the wing over and apply thin CA all the way around the inside joint (spars and ribs) and gently rub the shear webbing against the spars. Wait a minute or so and take your sanding block up and knock off the protruding 1/16" sheet hanging over the spars. This just takes a minute to do both sides. Pick up the balsa dust with a vacuum and admire your work! Once you do a couple of these they go quite fast and you will notice the wing is much stronger. If you have any questions just ask and I'll try to help.

One other thing: before I do a shear rib I examine the space between the two ribs and note if the rib to spar joint is a good one and if I need to gently run my sanding block across both spar surfaces to flatten them out for better web contact. Just takes a second but is worth the look.

Here's why I have been doing this for years: This summer a friend brought out a great old timer R/C model of the Powerhouse. He did a real nice job building this model and as I was flying it I was thinking how much fun the Powerhouse was to float among the clouds. Well, another R/Cer took over the controls and was scooting around the sky and decided to go inverted....and then when he turned it over and zoomed out of the resulting dive the wings folded in a blink of an eye with a quite loud "bang". Watching that fuselage heading to the ground was not a pretty site. When checking the wing parts afterwards I noted that the construction was very much like yours and is typical of that type of model. I flew the Pacific Ace (pictured above) inverted quite often and never had a wing failure due, in part, by taking the time to add those webs.

Soft landings.

Joe

rs670

My Feedback: (1)

Thanks Joe,

I really feel stupid now.... As soon as I read your email and looked at your pictures, the lights came on. For some crazy reason, I thought you were talking about some sort of triangle shaped gussett. (which I've never seen used in that application)

Yep, I've used that type of webbing before and thanks for reminding me about the procedure. I will definately do it.

I'll follow your suggestion and do all the front spars and at least half the rear (maybe all)

What do you think of the conversion from rubber bands to bolt on? There's a lot of reinforcement that the pictures dont show. It will definately not break in that area.

I'll send pics of completed wing soon. (prior to covering)

Rick

Dick Smith

Hi Rick - I have been following this forum and find it very informative. Your Commando is looking good. Stripping job was well done and it looks ready to cover. Keep the photos coming. If I had a camera I'd send you pics of my projects as well. Dick

rs670

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Thanks Dick,

Today will be spent installing webbing as "Sqeakalong" suggested a few posts earlier. Then comes a lot of "fine sanding" The rest of parts will be here Monday including the covering. The "big brown truck" was in New Stanton, PA the last time I checked.

Get yourself a little digital camera and post some pics of your new Citabria. Anything to stay busy during these cold PA months.

Rick

rs670

My Feedback: (1)

WOW Sqeak, what have you got me into? (Hehe)

After measuring distances between ribs, I found they vary anywhere between 3.227 to 3.552. There are 38 bays to address if I do them all. (and I probably will) Fortunately, I have enough 4" stock here in the shop. I'll just trim close to 1/2" off each sheet prior to cutting individual pieces. Another thing to compensate for is the small fillet of glue at each joint. I'm sure you want the webs to fit flat against the spars and also tight against the ribs.

Oh well, here goes!

Rick