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what the? Axe CP jumping in the air!

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what the? Axe CP jumping in the air!

Old 09-05-2007, 09:39 PM
  #26  
strat1960s
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Default RE: what the? Axe CP jumping in the air!

Ok, that very well could be the answer. Are you suggesting greasing it? Where and how much??

Ted
Old 09-06-2007, 10:54 AM
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alienteabagger
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Default RE: what the? Axe CP jumping in the air!

Remember that a stock AxeCP uses z-bends on the servo control arms. Z-bends are inherently sloppy. That little bit of slop will translate into a slight movement of the swash which equals a change in direction. Once you get rid of the z-bends (intall ball links), then you have to deal with the "sticky collective". The plastic balls on the swash can have mold flash on them and if these aren't smoothed out they can cause the ball links to stick causing the swash to stick to one spot requiring more servo input than necessary which translates into a jumpy heli.

Then there's "transitional lift". If you fly in any kind of wind (including ground effect), changes in lift across the rotor disc will cause the heli to rise or fall. Especially with the AxeCP where the stock headspeed is pretty low. The only way to combat this is by using a higher headspeed.
Old 09-07-2007, 03:15 PM
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Default RE: what the? Axe CP jumping in the air!

A lot of good sugessions, unfortunately they could all be right me thinks. I've seen belt driven tails snap to the right a couple of inches, but that was too obvious. The linkage was binding and when the servo overcame the binding the sudden overshooting of the linkage caused the snap. Same can happen in a binding swash, causing snap upward or downward. It doesn't take much.

I understand the tail motor drawing power away from the main motor thing, but in a belt driven tail, the tail rotors will draw down the main rotor speed as well, thus the throttle to gyro curve thingy that has to be setup. I'm not sure if the AxeCP motor is that responsive to cause a snap when the tail motor shuts off. Maybe. Depends on how fast the rise or fall is.

If you drill out a servo arm hole with anything over .055, it will be too big for the Z-bend link wires. Yeah I know, it's really tempting to use that 1/16" drill bit, but it's actually .0625 and too big for Z-bend wires. It would add even more slop.

Keep us up to date guys. Any solution that works is a good solution.

Ed
Old 09-07-2007, 03:58 PM
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MMatheny
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Default RE: what the? Axe CP jumping in the air!

I have always used LubriPlate to pack my servos and other things that need to slide
Old 09-07-2007, 05:21 PM
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alienteabagger
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Default RE: what the? Axe CP jumping in the air!

When I had my AxeCP I replaced any and ALL z-bends with ball links. It is a cheap and effective mod. Then I smoothed all the ball ends on the swash and head assembly to eliminate binding. The sudden jumping stopped and became a slow and controllable up & down drift!
Old 09-08-2007, 11:02 AM
  #31  
strat1960s
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Default RE: what the? Axe CP jumping in the air!

Has anyone gone to the aluminum componets and had the same problem with their heli popping up?
Here is a copy of the emial I sent to Heli-Max and Tower Hobbies requesting info.

I’ve had a Heli-Max AXE CP for a few months now and I’d like to make a few upgrades. I was wandering if you could help me out.

Upgrade # 1: I’d like to replace all the swashplate linkages with the Z-bends to regular ball type linkages. What size ball linkages would you recommend and do you carry them? (I’ve been told the Z-bend type linkage sometimes binds causing the heli to pop up while in flight once the bound linkage breaks free.)

Upgrade # 2: I’d like to replace the swashplate, center hub & button, slide block and seesaw and flybar carrier with the aluminum parts available at Tower Hobbies. I however would like to leave the blade grips plastic to avoid further damage in the event of a crash. Will the plastic (stock) blade grips fit the aluminum center hub?

I'll have to wait and see what they have to say.

With all these folks having simular problems with the AXE CP popping up or down on them, you'd think the folks at Heli-Max would take a little more intrest in whats going on with their product.

I'll keep you all posted.
By the way I came into the shop to fly today, but I can't it's the Nat'l Guard's weekend to work in our shop. No flying for me this weekend. NUTZ!
Ted
Old 09-08-2007, 01:44 PM
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Default RE: what the? Axe CP jumping in the air!

great news for me guys....

my Axe CP is no longer doing this jump thing... I crashed it a week or so ago and it no longer does what helicopters are supposed to do...

and on the continuing good news note....

I built my new heli and finished it this morning, it's a MX400/MX450 combination.. anyhow, when I try to fly this one, it does the jumping thing....







I sure do wish I hadn't pissed off the heli-gods
Old 09-08-2007, 02:15 PM
  #33  
K94max
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Default RE: what the? Axe CP jumping in the air!

Strat, is the swashplate and head gear made of plastic or aluminum on the MX400? I've switched to a DX7 and AR6100 reciever on my AXE and it seems "smoother" but it may be because it is relatively new since it was replaced by Hobbico. I am having a problem with i "floating" up and down (can't find the sweet spot on the throttle stick yet) but it is not as severe as it was. Still yet, it is fairly new and my old one didn't start "popping" until i had flown it a couple of months.
I am thinking that there is some play in the plastic head/stock servos that allows some minute changes in the pitch and I think that is just something that is common with the Axe (plastic and servos) allowing some movement. I would think that all metal would be stiffer and not allow any play but I don't know.
Congrats on the MX400 - may I be nosy and ask your thought process in stepping up to the 400? I can't decide if I want to get something like the TREX450 or go on up to something like the Hurricane 550 in size. TOO Many choices - SO Little money.
Old 09-08-2007, 02:20 PM
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Default RE: what the? Axe CP jumping in the air!

K94,

on the MX, it's an all aluminum head with a plastic swash plate...

oh, my thoughts on the 400 size... I guess it was price, the 600's are out and all, but you have to figure in chargers and li-po's and that also.. I don't want to go to the big boy stuff. I am tinkering with the nitro idea also, but I decided on electric first just because of ease adn I can sneak off during work and fly my electric and get an hour or two of flying at work!

I think both the T-rex or the MX400 or 450 is a great choice from what I've seen. I'll be getting a t-rex this fall for a winter project I'm sure..

Old 09-08-2007, 02:25 PM
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Default RE: what the? Axe CP jumping in the air!

OK, Thanks. Did I read that the MX is jumping like the Axe did also?
Old 09-08-2007, 02:30 PM
  #36  
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Default RE: what the? Axe CP jumping in the air!


ORIGINAL: K94max

OK, Thanks. Did I read that the MX is jumping like the Axe did also?

yup!

Old 09-08-2007, 02:38 PM
  #37  
K94max
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Default RE: what the? Axe CP jumping in the air!

Not cool. If you were like me, upgrading the radio on mine and I thought things would be better. I beat the h*** out of it though with boom strikes so I quit flying it and spent a week on the sim trying to get used to the radio. Still not dialed in like the stock radio was set so it caused a new learning curve.
I hope you can get your new one flying smoother for you. As you stated earlier, you would think the Heli-max would get into this hopping about problem since it seems to effect more than one of thier models of birds.
Old 09-08-2007, 03:38 PM
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Default RE: what the? Axe CP jumping in the air!


ORIGINAL: thestratcat

K94,

on the MX, it's an all aluminum head with a plastic swash plate...

oh, my thoughts on the 400 size... I guess it was price, the 600's are out and all, but you have to figure in chargers and li-po's and that also.. I don't want to go to the big boy stuff. I am tinkering with the nitro idea also, but I decided on electric first just because of ease adn I can sneak off during work and fly my electric and get an hour or two of flying at work!

I think both the T-rex or the MX400 or 450 is a great choice from what I've seen. I'll be getting a t-rex this fall for a winter project I'm sure..


Told you to send me ur MX.... I know a way of appeasing the heli gods. It involves broekn heli parts and the spilled lube of other RC vehicles...
Old 09-08-2007, 06:22 PM
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Shack Man
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Default RE: what the? Axe CP jumping in the air!

Well, about a week ago my AXE started jumping up a little here and there and as the week went on the jumping got more intence. Today I was doing good just to keep it within my backyard. It was all over the place and up and down. 15 to 20ft up and then a 15 to 20 ft fall. Tracking was right on the money and no woble or vib's. The next batt. I ran out just holding it in my hand and found the prob. One of my HS55 (left rear) was junping up and down. As I would move the right stick forward it would jerk up and down on it's own.

I replaced it with the stock one and all is good again. Time for a new HS55. Also starting to see a lot of play in the Z bends and head parts. It may be time for CNC and the belt mod.
Old 09-08-2007, 06:32 PM
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Default RE: what the? Axe CP jumping in the air!

Mine did the same thing, but the forward servo had a stripped gear. That sucker really jumps up and down, doesn't it? By turning the servo arm up and down, I could feel a missing tooth in the drive gear. If one of the left or right servos fails, I would make sure they are of the same manufacturer. That way you will eliminate changing pitch caused by aileron input and the servos moving at different speeds.
Old 09-10-2007, 08:20 AM
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Default RE: what the? Axe CP jumping in the air!


ORIGINAL: alienteabagger


ORIGINAL: thestratcat

K94,

on the MX, it's an all aluminum head with a plastic swash plate...

oh, my thoughts on the 400 size... I guess it was price, the 600's are out and all, but you have to figure in chargers and li-po's and that also.. I don't want to go to the big boy stuff. I am tinkering with the nitro idea also, but I decided on electric first just because of ease adn I can sneak off during work and fly my electric and get an hour or two of flying at work!

I think both the T-rex or the MX400 or 450 is a great choice from what I've seen. I'll be getting a t-rex this fall for a winter project I'm sure..

man, I pissed off the heli-gods dude....

saturday, I'm flying away, haveing a good time, all of a sudden, wind! ouch! I lost control, then got frustrated, then poured it into the ground...

rebuilt and flying sunday, doing some forward flying, having a good time, it even looked like I knew what I was doing! yeah, then I flew in front of me, the heli rolled to the right (I guess it didn't matter that my stick input was to the left [X(]) but anyhow, she did a nice roll and right into the ground!


anyhow, there is good news... to answer the original "what the *****" question.. my CP - I still had the problem with jumping, I took all three linkages from the swash, shortened them a total of 2 complete turns for each one and tried it again, it flies like a dream! the same deal was happening to the 400/450 mess... I shortened that linkage 1 complete turn and it flies great!




Told you to send me ur MX.... I know a way of appeasing the heli gods. It involves broekn heli parts and the spilled lube of other RC vehicles...
Old 09-10-2007, 02:48 PM
  #42  
strat1960s
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Default RE: what the? Axe CP jumping in the air!

By shortening the lengths of your linkages, did you change the angle of you servo contol arms??

Ted
Old 09-12-2007, 08:48 PM
  #43  
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Default RE: what the? Axe CP jumping in the air!

Hi
Check the main motor mounting bolts which keep the motor pinion in line with the main rotor drivewheel
If the bolts are loose the wheel intermitently slips in the pinion then grabs and the heli leaps up a foot or so
You can also hear the motor surge...Check the teeth on the gearwheel they wear irregular sometimes causing
gearwheel slippage hence surge
Hope this helps
Old 09-13-2007, 09:24 AM
  #44  
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Default RE: what the? Axe CP jumping in the air!

put after run oil in my swashplate AXE-CP (jumping) diconnected main and tail motors , used a fully charged batt put the oil on plate began rotating right stick in all directions or mainly in a circle and put idle up switch in on position move movement on throttle that way noticed a black substance collecting on mainshaft, wiped as necassary kept repeating this serval times until batt was dead at the end the black gritty substance was turned light grey also moving throttle to full and back so swash would go to both positive and negative ends of travel. Put her back together did pre flight charged batts and went flyin , didi real well no jumping or popping 9-10 batts now flying good no pop NOTE during each preflight i put a couple of drops of after run oil on swashplate. When motor is spining the factory lube is moving to outside of swashplate and i dont think it was doing its job centrifical force or sumthing[:-]but i can say after 9-10 flights not popping or jumping im not saying its a fix but i did it and my axe no longer pops or jumps as EVERYONE has been explaining this forum has excellent info and tips so i thought i would tell you guys what i did and how it turned out again im not saying its the fix or i pleased the heli gods but it seemed to work for me at least its not popping or jumping on me geeze its hard enough to fly w/o the popping and jumping[sm=drowning.gif] lol havin fun with her though and keep up all the good posts Thanx guys
Old 09-13-2007, 09:44 AM
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MMatheny
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Default RE: what the? Axe CP jumping in the air!

As I get better at my hovering, I noticed this last night - ran 3 charges through it, and hovering about a foot and a half off the floor, would all of a sudden jump up around a foot or so (this is really scary flying in my dining room! - BTW, wanted to fly outside but a minor HURRICANE developed off the coast prohibiting any outside flying!!).

I have applied lithium grease to the main shaft where the swashplate moves up and down, and on all the ball joints (did this last week, never had this issue until last night - maybe I just wasn't able to hover it long enough for it to manifest itself!?)
Old 09-13-2007, 10:07 AM
  #46  
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Default RE: what the? Axe CP jumping in the air!

well, the cp made one final leap last night... I was out flying it, actaully doing some forward flight and stuff, I was having a good time... oh, did I mention, it was pretty dark? anyhow, screwing around, it took the final leap into the parking lot and pretty much trashed it again.. man, my MX400 on it's worst day flies sooooooo much better

as for grease/oil, I've been using some lubricants from my target rifles (the other hobby) anyhow, this stuff has moly something or other in it, comes with a paste that actually bonds to the metal and an oil to re-freshen it occasionally. I'm not sure on the heli's but they seem better, but I do know that a barrell treated with this stuff will make a bullet fly free and straight.. good stuff! oh yeah, it's called moly-fusion I think.. if anyone is interested I'll pull up a link for you.
Old 09-13-2007, 10:13 AM
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MMatheny
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Default RE: what the? Axe CP jumping in the air!

Has anyone tried graphite powder? Used to use that on my rifles for lubrication, but because it is a powder, didn't gather grit.
Old 09-13-2007, 10:32 AM
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Default RE: what the? Axe CP jumping in the air!


ORIGINAL: MMatheny

Has anyone tried graphite powder? Used to use that on my rifles for lubrication, but because it is a powder, didn't gather grit.

I wouldn't do the graphite... go to a place that sells loading supplies and buy some of that moly stuff (it's a huge molysomethingorothernamedstuff), it's not expensive, it's like graphite but better.. it shouldn't gather grit.. it's on the tips of bullets that you can buy.. I have a jug of it, it's about the size of a small coffee can.. oh yeah, I haven't tried this stuff..
Old 09-13-2007, 01:55 PM
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MMatheny
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Default RE: what the? Axe CP jumping in the air!

I thought you stated further up you had used this lubricant on your Axe?
Old 09-13-2007, 02:57 PM
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Default RE: what the? Axe CP jumping in the air!

ORIGINAL: MMatheny

I thought you stated further up you had used this lubricant on your Axe?
I'm using the shooters' solution moly stuff on my axe... you mentioned a graphite, and they sell the moly that way also, but it's messy and not as efficient as the other in my opinion...

same stuff essentially, one is a powdered form, the other (that I'm using) is a two part liquid...

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