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DIRECT DRIVE TAIL ROTOR

Old 05-10-2008, 08:28 PM
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GOskateFL
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Default DIRECT DRIVE TAIL ROTOR

HAS ANYONE TRIED TO CONVERT THERE AXE CP TO A DIRECT DRIVE TAIL ROTOR USING THE PARTS FROM THE NEW AXE CP V3? DO YOU THINK IT WOULD WORK?
Old 05-10-2008, 10:10 PM
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PSXBatou
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Default RE: DIRECT DRIVE TAIL ROTOR

There are already kits out there to convert a Axe to belt drive. Search around the forums, a member here has a really tricked out Axe.

I think your caps lock key is on/stuck btw.


Old 05-10-2008, 10:56 PM
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Heliman-1
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Default RE: DIRECT DRIVE TAIL ROTOR

Should work find but the belt driven tail is the way to go. Try this site. http://www.freestyle-hobby.com/catalog/index.php
Old 05-11-2008, 12:59 AM
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Shadow99
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Default RE: DIRECT DRIVE TAIL ROTOR

Gee-wiz Ed, your not talking about my "Little-Booger" are ya? Just cause it has been modified beyond what a normal person considers as reasonable.

Poor "LB" has been sat aside[&o], so I can finish setting-up his BIG brother (T-rex 500), something more than twice the AXE's size!
There's NOTHING left to modify on the MX300, it has ALL been done. 3700kv BL main, BDT, CF main/tail blades, full aluminum rotorhead & swashplate, Align landing gear & 3D struts, boom braces, F/G canopy & lighting system on canopy, boom & blades. The only thing left would be a full body kit, but after looking into them I opted not too.

Here's a few pics of the MX300 "LB"

Shadow
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Old 05-11-2008, 03:31 AM
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PSXBatou
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Default RE: DIRECT DRIVE TAIL ROTOR

Yes, i was talking about your beast ;-)

I just about have my T-Rex 600 assembled, finally. I work too much 60+ hours a week...


Old 05-11-2008, 11:42 AM
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GotM
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Default RE: DIRECT DRIVE TAIL ROTOR

I converted my AXE CP to a direct drive tail using a Blade CP tail motor mount. It took about 30 min to complete. Overall, it seems to remove some of the yaw that I was needing to counter with tail inputs. Now, I need to find a black prop

The Blade CP mount is a little longer than the AXE, I moved the tail boom into the fuselage to put the overall length close to the stock set up.


Old 05-17-2008, 08:09 PM
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Default RE: DIRECT DRIVE TAIL ROTOR

I decided to try running a direct drive tail using a three by three propeller. After removing the opinion, I installed the propeller simply by pressing it on. After spending some time with adjustments I tried to go out side and hover. The flight only lasted about 5 minutes and the tail held but it wasn't the greatest. Upon touching the motor I found it was extremely hot. I think a three by two propeller would be better. Perhaps I'll try cutting down the size of this one to reduce the heat in the motor. If it doesn't work, I'll go back to the gear drive setup.
Old 05-17-2008, 11:19 PM
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BigTruckDriver
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Default RE: DIRECT DRIVE TAIL ROTOR

I was thkinking about doing the same but was thinking that with out the big gear the motor would have to work harder. Dont know.
Old 05-18-2008, 11:20 AM
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GotM
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Default RE: DIRECT DRIVE TAIL ROTOR

I have been using the GWS 3x2 and the motor doesnt seem to be any different in temp than when I was using the stock geared set-up. I did find a GWS 0302 in black too.

But, when I put that prop on i pushed it on too far. I finally got the prop moved to allow enough clearance, but it seems to be loose enough it works it way onto the shaft and eventially hits the motor mount screw. Then the prop flings off the shaft. I have had two pretty hard landings to the skids. The last one broke the Align landing gear mount I have installed.

In my case, this set up holds the tail more consistently through out the flight. And, seems to hold better than the stock set-up. I did have to adjust the gain on the gyro. In idle up mode you could hear the tail motor pulsing to keep the tail stable. I do like that I dont need to make trim adjustments in the flight.
Old 05-18-2008, 10:17 PM
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Default RE: DIRECT DRIVE TAIL ROTOR

Glad to hear your motor works with the 3x2 prop. I trimmed 1/4inch off each end of the 3x3 prop to try and reduce the load. After flying on and off for about 8 minutes, the tail motor was hot again. It was almost too hot to touch. Considering going back to the geared setup until I get a better motor or smaller prop.
Old 05-19-2008, 05:41 AM
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GOskateFL
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Default RE: DIRECT DRIVE TAIL ROTOR

why not just use the tail rotor for the new axe cp v3?
Old 05-19-2008, 07:23 PM
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GotM
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Default RE: DIRECT DRIVE TAIL ROTOR

That was my plan originally, but the parts were not out yet. And, I dont think they are available until mid June or so. I think the upgrade I did, in the end, was less expensive and will give the same result.
Old 05-19-2008, 10:34 PM
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Default RE: DIRECT DRIVE TAIL ROTOR

Update on my DD tail. Cut more off the prop. Don't ask me what I was looking at the fist time, but it wasn't cut down to 2.5 inches. (guess that's why I'm not a tool and die guy) Measured again and cut more, this time to 2.5. Anyway, it still ran hot. Went back to geared tail, and its still hot. Somehow, I think I've got the shaft off center, or ruined a bushing in the motor. I've got a replacement, but I think I'll run it till it spontaneously combusts or fries out.

The part for the v3 isn't out yet, so I guessed as to the approximate size they're using.
Old 06-05-2008, 11:16 PM
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Default RE: DIRECT DRIVE TAIL ROTOR


ORIGINAL: Heliman-1

Should work find but the belt driven tail is the way to go. Try this site. http://www.freestyle-hobby.com/catalog/index.php
has anyone tried this yet. I would like to get it.
Old 06-10-2008, 02:41 AM
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Default RE: DIRECT DRIVE TAIL ROTOR

I wouldn't worry about that hot motor....did you ever happen to check it *before* all the work? Mine is undamaged as far as I know and it's always run very hot. I am interested in that belt conversion, that's something I'd like to try if I decide to fly the Axe for any length of time beyond my "initial training".
Old 06-18-2008, 03:46 PM
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Default RE: DIRECT DRIVE TAIL ROTOR

I decided to try a Heli since I've always wanted one and bought an Axe CP-L. Wish I had seen that the v3 was coming out, but I don't really want to wait till sep (thats what tower has it listed at now). I'm going to do the Bell-Hiller mod, plus all the cnc/cf mods probably. I will get the dd tail rotor off the v3 too when it comes out. Just how moddable is this heli? Can you change out the motor for a bigger brushless one?
Old 06-18-2008, 07:25 PM
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Default RE: DIRECT DRIVE TAIL ROTOR

Actually I would hold off on upgrades at first.....just throw on the training gear and start sloooowly easing into basic hovering. That's what I did and I managed to progress from heli-noob to confident, steady tail-in hovers in my living room (still working on nose-in) with no more damage than a nicked up set of blades. Though I've had one serious crash since then........(pushing myself into fast forward flight too soon). One thing you might consider is upgrading the servos to Hitec HS-55's, supposedly that improves handling and precision a lot. I can't comment because when I bought my heli, it already had this upgrade, but it does sound like I'm avoiding some of the common control problems others here comment about with the Axe (jumping, mostly....I've started getting this a little, but never enough to be more than a minor nuisance).

The one upgrade I definitely want to get is a direct-drive tail rotor. Other than that, I'd suggest sticking with stock mechanicals. Put the $$$ into replacement parts as you need them (and you will...) and spare blades. Besides, plastic doesn't break as easily as those nice shiny CNC parts. To be honest, I'm not sure I want to upgrade even the tail rotor, I may just put that money towards a better heli when I'm ready to move up. Something to think about when considering major upgrades to a somewhat basic heli.
Old 07-09-2008, 03:18 PM
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Default RE: DIRECT DRIVE TAIL ROTOR

Fricken Tail Motor Crap!!!

Went back to DD to try to get some quicker response. Using a GWS 3x2 prop, I bought the new V3 tail piece and mounted with the prop acting as a pusher (like the stock v3). The motor ran hot, but I continued. After the second flight the motor quit. See video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weG51use9R0

Tried flipping the motor over along with flipping the prop, but it still pushed air only the prop was running backwards. After the above accident, I installed a spare GWS motor and prop and reversed the wiring to make it a puller so the air would flow over the motor. Worked accept the prop would not stay on! Every time I bumped full power on the tail, it would fly off and bounce around the basement. Tried some super glue, same result. Decided to go back to pusher prop and before install I dropped a spec of oil on the bushing.

We'll see...

I've got a spare tail motor with a gear on it, but it was acting a little weak so I'm shy of going back to gear drive tail blade. A change is needed for improved performance, but which way to go. Brushless tail motor, belt drive tail, or should we wait for the shaft drive mod to come out in September??? AAarggghhh!!!![:@]
Old 07-09-2008, 07:59 PM
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Default RE: DIRECT DRIVE TAIL ROTOR

Just finished up my belt drive upgrade. Now my ACP really is a FrankenAxe.
Align 420 brushless W/ Align 35A ESC
All metal Heliko bell hiller head controller
All metal Microheli rotor head
Align Trex 450 SE tail assembly
Walmart knitting needle tail boom
HDX Heading Hold gyro
Tower Pro 9g servos x4
Esky Honey Bee King 2 belt drive gear
Esky Honey Bee King 2 Boom struts
Esky Honey Bee King 2 horizontal and vertical stabilizer
Super Skids landing struts and skid tubes

Now if this bird dont fly, I'm gonna ground her and fly my CX 450 exclusively. Or maybe look into a plank. Nah... been there done that, no real challenge for me, except a place to fly. I can heli in my back yard and sometimes in the living room.
Old 07-09-2008, 10:22 PM
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Default RE: DIRECT DRIVE TAIL ROTOR

My Axe is safely back at the Tower Hobbies hanger. The prospect of continuous replacement of rotor blades and the 3-in-1 system/no DD tail rotor changed my mind. I'll wait until something better comes along in the mini segment before I buy one. Until then I'm going to pick up a ARTR AX-10 Scorpion and try crawling before I spread my wings.
Old 07-09-2008, 10:29 PM
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Default RE: DIRECT DRIVE TAIL ROTOR

Aww, 'tis a shame to hear you gave it up. FWIW the tail on mine has been pretty much trouble-free, and really isn't bad to fly. I've had the heli since early May now and have yet to burn out a tail motor (and this is a *used* machine). A "real" tail setup would be nicer to fly but this is fine for learning.

As far as "something better".....knowing what I do now, and having learned the basics at this point, I would advise a newbie to try a Falcon 3D over the Axe, due to slightly more advanced design and a shaft-driven tail rotor. I have not flown one myself but it looks to be of slightly higher grade than the Axe, has the shaft-driven tail rotor, and comes stock with a brushless motor/ESC. I've heard lots of good stuff about it.

http://www.hobby-lobby.com/falcon.htm

Some website around here has the latest Falcon for like $219. That's what I'd do now if I were starting from scratch again.
Old 07-17-2008, 09:39 PM
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Default RE: DIRECT DRIVE TAIL ROTOR

Well, the Deans connector came apart while I was disconnecting the battery. Decided to program the tail's ESC. Found out is has an option for no cut off. Its possible the battery voltage dropped to 8.4 volts and the ESC shut down the tail motor. The main ESC is supposed to drop the power of the motor to hold the battery at 9 volts. Perhaps this will prevent the tail motor from shutting down.

Still not satisfied with the performance, but it might get me by until a better tail setup is available.

Starting to think the torque of the brushless motor is too much for the tail motor to keep up with. Torque tube tail sounds very interesting.
Old 07-24-2008, 03:56 PM
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Default RE: DIRECT DRIVE TAIL ROTOR

Had another low altitude tail motor shut down and subsequent crash onto the skids. This time the TX batteries went dead. I have been using 2500 Mah Nimhs and recharging them with a 15 minute fast charger. The red light was not on at all when I started. Bought some new batteries and everything is back to normal.

The main ESC (Otter 25 amp) says it has automatic detection and li-po shut down with a gradual shut down, but there's no info on when it shuts down (what voltage) or if its programmable. I can hear the main motor slow just slightly and I land immediately. Not sure I trust it, as my balancer shows the batts are sometimes below 3.6 volts per cell before charge up.

I liked the Direct Drive setup better than the gear drive with a bigger tail rotor, but the heat it generated was too much. It was much more responsive. Maybe a better motor would do the trick.

A guy on youtube had a brushless tail set up and it worked great (on a Blade CP). My question is: do you think he got more than one flight out of it before the tail motor burned up?
Old 07-28-2008, 10:32 PM
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Default RE: DIRECT DRIVE TAIL ROTOR

Just bought a micro outrunner brushless motor. Any ideas on how I can mount it on the tail of the axe perpendicular?

Thought I would experiment since the price was cheap.
Old 08-15-2008, 12:22 AM
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Default RE: DIRECT DRIVE TAIL ROTOR

Just finished mounting the Brushless outrunner (took all day to find parts) and test ran the motor. It runs great and looks pretty cool. Have to program the ESC not to shut down, that's the main's ESC's job. Getting closer to a test run. Have to mount the electronics and secure the wires, then see what happens. Man, I hope this works!!!! Pictures or video when its not so ugly.

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